SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

Hey Everyone.

Im looking at a set of LT1 valvesprings for my 081 heads.

I am looking at these beacuse they have next to no miles.

Will they fit on my 081 heads? Will they be ok with .477 lift?

Thanks!

Sheldon

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

LT1 springs are no different from 305 TBI springs.

If that's an aftermarket cam, then stock valve springs are a recipe for disaster.

Use whatever springs the cam mfr recommends; or the nearest possible equivalent from a major cam mfr such as Comp, Crane, Lunati, Isky, or Crower. Avoid K-Motion and GM.

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

Would these springs be a good replacement choise?

http://www.competitionproducts.com/p...p?number=98214

92rs85berlintta

iTrader: (1)

The springs your cam recomends are probably best

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Those are cheap as dirt, and don't give any specs on performance. I'd avoid those.

Valve springs, even the "good" ones that you NEED for your application, aren't really that expensive. I paid $80 CA for mine. That's nothing, compared to the carnage they create if they fail.
I mean, valve covers, you can go cheap or expensive, but if they "fail", you have a leak, you fix it, and move on. If valve springs fail, the piston hits the valve and carnage (big carnage) ensues.

.477 lift? Is that a comp268? That lift # sounds familiar. Use comp 981's.

LT4's from GM, with the requiste retainers and locks can be had fairly cheap, Vader made a post on that a while ago. I think they were a hair too wide to put on stock heads though, 1.26" diameter. Not sure if those would fit snugly, or would need machining.

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

The cam is actually out of an LT1, so there was no reccomendations i got with it.

Would these springs be any better?

http://www.competitionproducts.com/p...p?number=98213
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Oh,

And the lift is .447, but with 1.6 rockers it would be .477

I wont have any issues running this cam and rocker ratio with my stock 081 heads will i??

Thanks,

Sheldon

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

You *really* have your heart set on those no name competition products parts eh?

Still, no force specs on them, they just throw a few more buzzwords in "super clean"... They'd probably do the job, I just wouldn't feel right since I have no idea what the specs are on them.

You should check your retainer to guide boss clearance after you put in the cam, you may have to use offset locks and shim the springs or something to get a bit of clearance.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

AFAIK none of the various 93-97 LT1 cams have that lift, on either lobe.

However, one of the ABSOLUTE ALL-TIME WORST cams that GM ever produced, especially for a modern engine, does. Because of its "street" name, people just continue to buy it though; and then wonder why their car runs like crap.

Is it 222° @ .050", .447" lift on both lobes? Like this one?

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2D12%2D106%2D3

It's the old "151" cam (the last 3 digits of its part number). The slang name for it is the "375 HP 327" cam. It was also used in the 70-71 LT1 motor (not the same as the 93-97 LT1) in some applications. People are all about "well if it made 375 HP in a 327, it's GOTTA be good for 350 HP in my 305!!" Yeah right.

What that cam will do, is produce a motor that has NO LEAVE WHATSOEVER; then seems like it "pulls forever", because even though it never really makes any power, it makes so little at a stop, that it never seems to make any less (can't make negative power, you know...). If you take a 327 with the exact same parts as the "375 HP" version, and build it TODAY, and put it on the dyno, I seriously doubt you could coax even 275 HP out of it. Even with its 11.1:1 compression.

If it's that cam, throw it in the trash. I've pitched a couple of them myself already, so don't let it bother you. If I threw away one of those plus a quarter, I'd be mad at myself for being $0.25 worse off. But I'd also be glad that I'd helped rid the hot-rodding world of one of its most persistent diseases.

Catch me some time when I'm not in such a good mood, and I'll let you know how I REALLY feel about it.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

HOLY COW!!! 342?!?

oh, that's also not a roller cam, so there's another complication. But good god, that's one hurtin' cam.

I'm hoping you are actually looking at a takeout LT1 cam, those are fine for your app.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Right. That's actually a REAL product. Some of this stuff, I just can't make up. Truth is stranger than fiction. I told you it was a crappy cam.

I kind of think this guy has his "LT1"s mixed up.

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

This is a hydraulic roller cam.

From what i am told its the high(er) performance version of the Latemodel LT1 cams.

As far as i know its out of a 94 Firebird, and has .447 lift. I have been told this by multiple people, so you telling the cam is crap is news to me.

Are you sure i have the cam you are talking about?

This is definately the hydraulic roller cam.

92rs85berlintta

iTrader: (1)

check out the ls1 behive springs and see if they will fit your heads. thats what i run on my lt1 with a cc306 and they are great.

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

Hold up, found a website that has all the information on my cam:

Manufacture(sp?) : GM
Duration: 230 / 208
Lift: .450 / .460
Lobe separation: 116

Appearntly i had the wrong cam specs. This is the cam that came stock in 94 - 95 LT1's.

92rs85berlintta

iTrader: (1)

thats allot of work to just put a stock cam in it. why not upgrade to a aftermarket? whats your desired setup?

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

Im putting the LT1 cam in for a few reasons:

1. It cost me $30 for the cam and lifteres
2. Im only 16 and it fit right in for the power range i wanted
3. I will get a nice cam when i build a better engine and would rather spend time working on the engine, and porting, and putting man hours in, rather then spending buckets of cash i do not have.

And the only reason i have been looking at the competition products springs, is because well, their cheap.

I could get a set of crane springs with retaineres and locks for $113 off summit.

Is that a better idea?

Thanks,

Sheldon

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

How long can you afford to be without this car?

How much money do you have on hand for installing it? You bought the rockers yet? Keep in mind, you'll need gaskets, fluids, maybe a water pump, tune-up parts. Then, there's all the soft parts you'll disturb, any of which might turn out to be FUBAR, or crumble in your hands or break; belts, hoses, fittings, bolts, connectors, wire, injector O-rings, and so on. Who knows, there might even be some tools you'll need that you don't have yet.

You DON'T need the LT1 lifters. Use the ones you've got, unless you know FOR SURE there's something wrong with them.

I agree, that's ALOT ALOT ALOT of trouble and expense to go through, to take one stock cam out and put another stock cam in. Even if it's not the 151. :barf:

A lot of maze, and little or no cheese at the end.

and inexpensive too, I hope. Actually they're probably not too bad; Eaton most likely. Stock replacement. Good enough for a stock cam, not really good enough for anything worthwhile though.

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

Hey,

The cam was readily avaliable, and it was the most my dad would allow me to put in the car.

At the moment ive saved up $1200cad to put into the car, and my goal is to have the car ready for may 1st when i get my G2 (Ontario graduated licencing system, G2 means i can drive alone)

I have yet to pick rockers, but have picked my gaskets that i will use, i may use the stock lifters, even tho thier both the same.

I have LT1 Injectors avaliable to me if thats of any benefit.

Someone mentioned LS1 springs, those wont work on 081 head will they?

I had planned on leaving the engine in the car, and not taking the heads off unless absolutaly nessesary.

What are your opinions?

The shape of the engine justified me spending a couple bucks on it because 20k miles ago it got a complete new bottom end.

The cam isnt an expensive one, but it will wake up my 305 a bit, and i can learn how to do everything with this, and keep the cost down from what it would be with an aftermarket cam.

I plan on building a full 383 later, so i couldnt justify spending $300 on a cam for an engine that will only be in my car for 2 or 3 years

Sheldon

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Lotta maze, no cheese.

But if all you want is practice turning bolts and cleaning parts, that'd be as good a way as any to get it.

I have an 18-yr-old son and 16-yr-old daughter. I would do everything in my power to discourage them from doing what you're talking about doing. Not least, because I don't feel like driving them everywhere for however long while some diassembled hulk festers in my driveway.

I would urge you to leave it alone and save your money. You're young, you have plenty of years ahead of you for turning bolts and cleaning parts. You don't HAVE TO get started RIGHT NOW. Wait until (a) you're through college, and (b) you have a plan to do something that will actually IMPROVE the car by spending money on it, instead of accomplishing practically nothing... even under the most ideal conditions and with the most optimistic outcome. Neither of which is guaranteed.

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

Crap. Haha.

Unfortunatly, im at a point of no turning back.

Lucky for me, ( i know im lucky ), i have a heated auto shop on my property, my dad is ready and willing to help me, and i have untill may 1st when i get my licence to work on it.

Im more needing to pick valve springs as im at the point where the cam will go into the car tonite, and i need to pick my parts as i re assemble

Thanks for the help!!

If i had asked earlier, i may not have gone ahead with this, but oh well, now i can learn some, and hopefully get things right and it will start up when im done

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Haha, that's exactly what my dad told me. I was in 2nd year of university and bought my pile o'trash trans-am and he told me to wait until I finished university to work on it. That way i'd have the income of a "bonifide engineer", and not a broke student. hahah, ahh, the circle of life here.

As a 22yr old, I can say no amount of discouragement will do anything. He's got his heart set on turning wrenches and accomplishing something, come hell or high water, it'll happen. (I was this way 3 years ago, read my very first post on this forum, or maybe it was my 2nd or 3rd or whatever, when I asked about rebuilding my 305....)
It's good experience to see what the inner workings are like, you'll get a minimal upgrade in power though, and that's I guess why your dad has no problem with you doing this. Not a whole lot of $ tossed at this, and a lot of learning. Some people pay money to take courses where they do this, but they don't get to keep the end product

But take to heart what sofakingdom is saying, ie, there are other things you can throw your $1200 at which will give you more return. A lot are less glamourous though...
Exhaust is the first one that comes to mind. Sounds cooler and goes faster - win win.

Sub frame connectors, may not get you moving faster, but boy they sure make the car feel like it's an indy car, not some old truck (it's that noticeable).
Some other things just make the overall driving experience in the car more fun, a stereo, etc.

anyway, maybe ask F-bird'88, he's in Ontario. He might be able to tell you a good local place to get springs. Comp products or comp cams, online from USA will hit you with a steep duty fee. Locally sometimes wins.

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

Ive actually already picked up a set of edelbrock TES headers, and upgraded my rear to a 3.42 Disc. Now im working on my engine.

Im learning alot doing this forsure, im spending some money, and learning how to pick parts, and hopefully in the end it will all work out well and i wont be ashamed to open the hood and say "yeah, i build that".

Im pretty exited about this whole deal, seeing i have paid for all the work being done to this.

Thanks for all the help!!!!!

Sheldon

92rs85berlintta

iTrader: (1)

On a positive note the lt1 cam will wake up the 305 a nooticable amount. So at least after you knuckles are bare, a back ache and your fingers are raw you will have a little pay off. I would say however just to make sure you put a new double roller chain in it while your in there. You can use stock replacement lt1 valve springs too if you can find them. I had a stock cam and sold it with used spings for 30$ and the kid did the same swap as yours and was happy with his results. IMO its just a ton of work.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

You can always pick up a set of the GM ZZ4 valve springs. They're the orange color coded ones. They're like 2 or 3 thousandths larger in diameter than your stock spring, which means they still fit in the stock spring pockets without any machining. They're pretty cheap too. I got a set of those along with the correct retainers and new valve locks for about $70-$80 IIRC. They're designed to handle the .510 lift on the exhaust side of the ZZ4 cam, so they should easily be up to the task of your LT1 cam. You can find them on GMPP's website or GMpartsdirect.com. The Comp Cams 981-16 springs are great too, but I think you have to get the spring pockets enlarged to run them IIRC. Hey Sofa, that's weird that you had that bad of an experience with the old "151" cam. It's also referred to as the "L79" cam. I was running Crane's blueprint version of that cam in a 350 with ported 2.02/1.60 441 casting heads, Holley 650DP, Weiand X-Celerator intake, Muncie 4 speed, and 3.73 gears. I stomped quite a few guys with that combo back in the day. The midrange on that cam was never ending! You do need fairly steep gears to get going with it though. I've since switched to a much larger Crower cam, but I really can't cap on the "151" much. It worked quite well for me. Plus it actually passed emissions with flying colors.

Vader

Oh, you ARE cold. I'd at least let her or him use a bay in the garage so I could close the door on the hulk while it festers.

GM LT4 springs will likely require some machining, so move along. Since you're already in this up to your knees, and before you're wading waist-deep, get some atfermarket 1.25" springs with about 140-180 pounds of seat pressure and be done with it.

And before you're all done,mock up on pair of rockers and check for guide clearance before you even think about starting the engine, elsewise all that cam replacement experience will be put to use all over again.