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Stumbles in open loop, 100% fine in closed loop

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Old Oct 27, 2007 | 10:49 PM
  #1  
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From: Mcdonough, GA
Stumbles in open loop, 100% fine in closed loop

I also have this posted in TBI board, any help would be great.

I have been fighting this issue for a couple of months. Trying to sell the car but I want it to be "right" when I do.

I start the car, it fires right up and idles smooth, no misses. Put it in gear and it either stumbles right away, or as soon as I hit the gas. It feels like it is gonna stall but I let off the gas and it starts moving then I can give it gas slowly. When I get in closed loop mode everything is perfect. I can stomp it right from a dead stop, or anywhere in the RPM range, and all is fine. I don't have a scanner but I haven't got any ser. Eng. lights the whole time I've had this problem.

Here is what I have changed so far:
installed TPI Fuel pump and new filter
plug wires/ cap/ rotor button ( a couple wires were chaffed so I changed 'em all)
new TPS
cleaned IAC
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Old Oct 28, 2007 | 08:30 AM
  #2  
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From: Arab, Alabama
Car: 1988 Trans Am GTA
Engine: 350 4BBL
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27
Re: Stumbles in open loop, 100% fine in closed loop

Recheck the base ignition timing. It sounds like it is retarded.
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Old Oct 28, 2007 | 03:32 PM
  #3  
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From: Texas,Baytown
Car: 1988 Formula
Engine: 350 L98
Transmission: 700R4 w/corvette stall and servo
Axle/Gears: 1998 Transam 2.73 posi.
Re: Stumbles in open loop, 100% fine in closed loop

i had the same problem, run great cold, as soon as it warmed(about 5 or 10 mins.) up it ran like crap then died. i thought it was the "open" or "closed" loop thing too. i changed plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil, fuel and air filters, and fuel pump relay. nothing worked, even if it really needed plugs and wires. the last thing changed worked. it was the EGNITION CONTROL MODULE. it was like 30 bucks for my 350 tpi. if that didn't work it was going to the shop.
i hope this helps.
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Old Oct 28, 2007 | 04:21 PM
  #4  
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From: Mcdonough, GA
Re: Stumbles in open loop, 100% fine in closed loop

350, If I read your post correctly, it sounds like we are having opposite indications. Mine runs bad when cold but perfect when warm. I appreciate the reply and that module may very well be my problem also. I think autozone can check these out. That is the module in the dist right under the rotor button, correct?

Super, IRC timing should be 0deg. with the ESC wire disconnected?
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Old Oct 28, 2007 | 05:42 PM
  #5  
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From: Arab, Alabama
Car: 1988 Trans Am GTA
Engine: 350 4BBL
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27
Re: Stumbles in open loop, 100% fine in closed loop

Originally Posted by jagone
...Super, IRC timing should be 0deg. with the ESC wire disconnected?
Yeah, that's the spec. To satisfy the emissions gods for the broadest of conditions. I consider it a starting point...
Hell, I think I'd tune a vacuum cleaner if it had a distributor ...
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Old Oct 28, 2007 | 06:00 PM
  #6  
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From: Mcdonough, GA
Re: Stumbles in open loop, 100% fine in closed loop

are you saying now would be a good time to finally add 2-3 deg. advance??
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Old Oct 28, 2007 | 06:40 PM
  #7  
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From: Arab, Alabama
Car: 1988 Trans Am GTA
Engine: 350 4BBL
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27
Re: Stumbles in open loop, 100% fine in closed loop

Originally Posted by jagone
are you saying now would be a good time to finally add 2-3 deg. advance??
or maybe more. Depending on gasoline quality, amount of oil consumption, altitude, and a host of other factors.
Heck, your timing marks could be off more than that...
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Old Oct 28, 2007 | 06:47 PM
  #8  
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From: Mcdonough, GA
Re: Stumbles in open loop, 100% fine in closed loop

Originally Posted by Supervisor42
or maybe more. Depending on gasoline quality, amount of oil consumption, altitude, and a host of other factors.
Heck, your timing marks could be off more than that...
Now that's a whole new can of worms I didn't even think of. How would I even know if my marks were off? Are you talking about manufacturing tolerances with the balancer, or specifically the outer ring spinning on the inner hub?

BTW thanks for the replies so far.
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Old Oct 28, 2007 | 07:00 PM
  #9  
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From: Arab, Alabama
Car: 1988 Trans Am GTA
Engine: 350 4BBL
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27
Re: Stumbles in open loop, 100% fine in closed loop

All of the above, and you left out the pointer on the timing cover.
You could go thru all of the stuff with the positive piston stop and buy a new balancer.
or,
you could change the timing and see if the engine "likes" it or "don't likes" it.
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Old Oct 28, 2007 | 07:06 PM
  #10  
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From: Mcdonough, GA
Re: Stumbles in open loop, 100% fine in closed loop

I'll have to check this out in the morning. I'm at work right now and when I get home at 12a I think my wife would get upset If I fired her up and stated messing with the timing...
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Old Oct 28, 2007 | 07:43 PM
  #11  
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From: Arab, Alabama
Car: 1988 Trans Am GTA
Engine: 350 4BBL
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27
Re: Stumbles in open loop, 100% fine in closed loop

I just realized you're in Mcdonough, GA.
I bought my T/A from an individual in Mcdonough, GA.
Burned 30 gallons of gas bringing it back to Alabama on a trailer. It was all the 4.3 V6 in my pickup wanted going up those hills.
Spent about 80% of the time at WOT...
Small world huh?
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