They don't have the same head.

 

You are right, that being said the stock 305 Vortec head outflows the 350 head per cubic inch of cylinder displacement.

My stock 059s went 224 cfm @ 0.500. My canadian 906s on my stock L31 engine that hydraulic locked on startup at 57K miles flowed 242 cfm @ 0.500. The mexican crate engine 062s went 218 @ 0.450 then tanked to 210 cfm @ 0.500.

305 is 38.125 cubic inches per cylinder. 350 is 43.75 cubic per cylinder.

224/38.125 = 5.875 cfm per inch

242/43.75 = 5.531 cfm per inch

210/43.75 = 4.800 cfm per inch

As you can plainly see the airflow is proportionally better on a stock L30 head then it is on a L31 head. The same camahaft will carry power to a higher rpm in the smaller 305 then it will in a 350, especially if it has the crappy hecho en mexico heads.

At the same lift point of 0.500 the heads on my 383 flow 274 cfm. My 383 is 47.875 cubic inches per cylinder.

274/47.875 or 5.723 cfm per cubic inch.

The stock 305 vortec heads flow proprotionally better then the ported aftermarket aluminum heads on my 383.

Throw the poor performing mexican 062 vortecs out of the mix and it is clear to see that all 3 engines are capable of breathing well for their respective engine displacements.

 

More stupidity.

Give them the same head, and in some cases (many in fact), the valves will HIT THE DECK OF THE BLOCK because the 305 bore is so small.

Then there's all the OTHER problems... to get more effective RPMs out of a motor, you need more cam; more valve spring; better rockers maybe; better rods; and so forth. MONEY.

THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE TO A 305 OVER A 350. Period. Paragraph. End of moronity.

More idiocracy:

Young one, you fail to notice that the 302 came with a solid cam, 245° @ .050". I know this because I OWNED ONE. Those of us WHO WERE THERE AT THE TIME also recall that in 1970, with the SCCA TransAm rules no longer a constraint, they put THE EXACT SAME cam, heads, and all the rest, into a 350; and it made... well, I'll just let you go look it up yourself, and enjoy. Look up the 70½ Z28 specs and compare to 67 Z28 specs. And of course, LOOK AT the graph you posted, and casually observe how the 302 is down as much as 25% of output at RPMs below 6000. Now, if you're running a stock class on a big asphalt oval with high banks and lazy corners (*cough*Talladega*cough*) YOUR ENTIRE LIFE where the RPMs never vary more than by 200 all the way around, and all you're racing against is other 5.0L limited motors, then the 302 is FOR YOU. IF OTOH you're in the real world, like where most of us are what with driving to work and back and all that with occasional bursts of enthusiasm including trips to the strip or parking lot or wherever, you're gonna GET YOUR A$$ BEAT, pure and simple. Just like I did in about 1978 when I quit building 327s because I kept getting my a$$ handed to me by people with 350s. (which had become widely available and cheeeep by that time) Losing just ... wasn't any fun anymore. When you have grown up and made a few mistakes of your own with your own money, you'll pay more attention to THE REAL WORLD, than some cute graph. Especially when it's YOUR OWN MONEY and you get your a$$ whupped by somebody who spent less money than you did but made smarter decisions.

It's astounding how STOOOOOPID this thread has become. Morons! I'm surrounded by MORONS!

 

1.94/1.60s clear well past 0.600 lift on a 0.040" over 305. My friend David Kauffung had 2.00 valves in the Fastburn heads on his engine masters 305 that made 458 hp in the second year he ran it.

 

Oh and by the way, look up 96-1999 5.7L motors on car-part.com, in the 75001 area. Not sure where you get your info, but at least in Dallas (which I know from personal experience, trucks in general and pickups in particular are not very common in Texas) there doesn't seem to be that much of a shortage. Not sure where Hurst is but I seriously doubt conditions are all that different there.

Don't just make up a bunch of stupid s*** and expect the rest of us to swallow it whole.

 

And likely would have made 75 HP more if they were on a 350, except that Engine Master has RULES. Let's not forget THE REST OF THE TRUTH.

 

The 305 in my Tahoe ended up making nearly 300 hp at the tires with a 218/218 @ 0.050 camshaft using milled Etec170s that came off the 350 that was in my Express. 1.94/1.55 valves cleared the stock bore way beyond the 0.510 lift I ran with them. The Etec170s flowed 220 cfm @ 0.400, 232 @ 0.500, and 238 cfm @ 0.600. The gain at 0.500 was only 8 cfm but that is only half the picture. The 059s were flowing 205 cfm @ 0.400. The Etecs also had 15-20 cfm more exhaust flow across the board. The 305 responded very well to them despite its small bore size.

 

Thanks for proving my point exactly and entirely. Those are not self service yards where you can get a 350 for $150. Look at what they are getting $$$ wise for an unknown 200K mile engine. $600-800 if you pull it and many of those yards will only pull it for you now. $800 + 8.25% sales tax is $864. Pretty dang close to $1K.

 

Also get to a U-Pull yard that claims to have a vortec 350 and 9 times out of 10 this is what greets you. Completely un-useable junk because someone pulled the heads off 10 rain storms ago. You have obviously not read what I said. The days of being able to pull a $100-200 350 that is in decent enough shape to put together without alot of machine work is far gone.

 

I haven't denied any evidence. The 302 has the same 4-inch bore as the 350. The bigger bore doesn't make it "fall on its face" sooner, just like a 350 wouldn't fall on its face sooner than a 305. Rev the 350 to that same 7,000 RPM and it will smoke the 302 ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL...

 

D00d, stop. Just STOP. The more you do this, the more people are laughing at you. You've successfully made a fool out of yourself. Whatever little credibility you might have left now, isn't worth risking over THIS. Trying to argue 305s are better than 350s. Sounds like high-school debate club fodder to me. (do they even still have those?)

So, if you can order a motor from the comfort of your gaming chair, what do you suppose might be possible if you GET UP OFF YOUR A$$ and actually GO TO A YARD? Now granted I haven't been to any yards in Texas lately, that being a place I only visit on occasion; but where I am (Rust Belt) I can go to yards and there's literally AISLES of those trucks sitting there. Rusted-out hulks with low miles. Or, snowplow trucks if you want that (wore-out core castings), that you can see all the way through the doors, but the motors are guaranteed JUNK and consequently CHEEEEEEP. Personally I just look for the grandpa trucks that he fell asleep and put into the ditch.

 

with equal heads and cam the smaller engine is going to make its power longer up top. 100% fact. At high rpm the 302 will smoke a 350 in power production as the same cam and heads are able to support the short stroke 302s breathing to a higher rpm.

 

Well rust is not a problem here. They clap out from blown intake gaskets taking out the rotating assembly or from people overheating them and cracking the heads off them. Entirely different scenario here. Work crews run them until they are just done.

As I said just a short time ago when I actually visited some yards, there were ZERO useable 350 SBC engines in 4 different U-Pull yards here. Where rows and rows of this generation of trucks and SUVs sat 10 years ago, its all GMT800s and GMT900s now.

You are the one making yourself look dumb. I said in my area in 2022 a person is better off getting an aftermarket block at the cost of a junkyard, possibly rebuildable core 350. I will stand behind that. By the time you wait 6-8 weeks for a machine shop to clean out your pockets machining an old GM block, might as well have a larger bore aftermarket block.

 

Maybe just post pictures of yourselves so we can vote who's the biggest dork and bring this to an end

 

I'll win that one

 

I have a lawnmower and it will go up a hill.

 

Maybe in the Twilight zone...

 

double post

 

The road from Spokane to Walla Walla is full of twisting turns and up and down out on the Palouse. I'm defiantly not gonna be driving steady state at 65....if I did I'm sure i could get 24-25. Lots of Fun in the vortec headed 305...pulling up to 6500 going through the gears is fun with 3.73 and a t5. I made the trip on one tank of gas with a tiny bit left over. 330 miles. Maybe sometime ill try to do the same with the 350 The 305 revs very free and willing. Not like many 305 haters would suggest. Very similar bore size to a 5.3. Just needs a head to let it breath.

 

^^^ The Etec 170s on my 305 in my Tahoe breathed considerably better then the L30 Vortecs in stock form. Add another 30-40 hp to your setup and to get the idea of how the 170s run.

 

With all of that. You can get a good 350 from a yard, any day of the week.

The pathetic seek out (pics of a rusty bore) how it "can't be done". The motivated, go (find a decent block) get it done.

 

And, folks above are right. This thread IS DAF....and I got sucked into it.

Anyone who wants to put resources in to 305's? Have at it. Anyone who can't read a spec about an engine....I'm sorry for ya.

 

I can't believe I've seen that same phrase used twice in the same day on two different forums...Forget the 305/350 debate. THAT boggles the mind!.

 

It will be interesting to see the numbers from the track.

 

Whats important when hot rodding a 305 with any 350 cylinder heads is getting the compression ratio right. A 64 cc head DROPS the CR on a 305.
Ends up too low for N/A. BUT just right for a mild supercharged 305.

A 305 + vortec heads + a H122 Eddy E-Force blower
will slay its fair share of stroker motors.

For a high perf N/A 305 with flat tops you want the heads to be 54-56CC chamber.

 

I'm not arguing against anything you are pointing out here. Bigger is better for power...as long as the head flow can support rpm. I'm not saying the 302 is better! Funny how it did make 1hp more at peak than the identical cam 327! lol With good heads the 327 would be up 30-40 hp maybe more!

 

I kid you not, every once in a while I mow the lawn with this, and people driving by actually stop their cars to watch & take pictures

 

I had a neighbor that mounted a 6-71 blower case to the hood of his riding mower.

 

That yellow mower cuts the grass. That green one beats the f-out of it.

 

Your right, it does do a neater job of cutting the grass

Here is a pic of the advertising for it, it's a 1952 "Eclipse Lark" 18" cut. What I like about it is that it's missing nothing, and as the pic shows both the chain and belt drives are completely exposed. I guess people 70 years ago were smart enough to not need any "don't put your pecker in the fan" covers & stickers plastered all over their machinery, only a fool would stick their appendages into the dangerous areas of running machinery (Then came the ambulance chaser lawyers, and, well, you know the rest...) . It wasn't built with a "recoil" starter either, you wind the rope around the notched pulley on the flywheel, give it a mighty pull, and it fires up first yank every time

 

Love it!

My dad had a reel mower very similar to that when I was a kid. Same no-recoil start and every thing! :thumbs:

 

A blast from the past. Wy back in 1957 my brother and I built a go-kart using that same Briggs/Stratton motor. Ours came off a roto-tiller.

 

I have one of those old N model Briggs too. The one I have is all cast iron. Round fuel tank with a glass fuel filter water separator bowl.

 

I remember one time I shut the thing off w/that little feeler gauge, and got shocked pretty good. I didn't like that and was afraid of it after that.

 

As was the Briggs we had. IIRC, about the only small motors made of aluminum back then were on chain saws.





Lulz. I'd forgotten about that grounding strap. The old-timey magneto ignitions in those motors would really knock your socks off if you came in contact with the plug while the motor was running.

 

We had a green one but dad had upgraded to a lawn chopper by then. One day my brother and I got out the old green one, he was running it, I was walking along side it. The spark plug cap was coming loose so I reached over to tighten it with my left hand and punched the brick wall with my right hand. I never touched another spark plug while the engine was running EVER.

 

LOL. I've always said that the lessons best-learned are often those the hardest-learned!

 

How many of you knew that in 1987 the Pontiac model line sales brochere stated the Firebird Engines "vital specs" - 5.7 TPI 210 HP and 5.0 TPI 205 HP ??
Let the bickering begin.....

 

There's already been more than enough in this thread.