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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
I know that right now only a couple threads down on the list there is another post on this exact same subject going on right now, but I wanted to start a fresh post that I can keep track of from scratch.
I know that anything 305 related isn't the most desired engine, but members and moderators alike, please, I'd really appreciate it if everyone could keep their 350/383 comments out. I know these are great engines, and I know they would be more cost effective. But, my reasons are as follows:
1: THE number one reason I want to build a 334 is because no matter where I go, 305's and 334's alike have always been called boat anchors, junk engines and etc. I've always been one to buck the trend, and I'd much more prefer the challenge of building a 334 than tossing in a generic 350 and calling it a day. I have seen MANY 305's that were done RIGHT, and made mince meat of most of the competition. This will make for even a greater experience when you beat someone in a 350/383 knowing you had "just a 305".
2: EVERY BUBBA AND HIS FREAKIN UNCLE has 350's and 383's. I have ALWAYS been to buck the trend. Individuality is very important to me. Where chrome is all the rage, I chose gloss black. When iPod's were all the rage, I bought a Zen. When RAZR's were the number one phone at the time, I bought a SLVR. This has always been my nature. And I don't want to monkey see monkey do my engine. I want individuality.
3: For reasons I will not go into detail about, I had no choice but to buy a professionally rebuilt 305 to drop in my Z28 when the original 305 went to junkyard heaven. After all the money I spent in parts and labor (Over 2 grand), I'd be extremely ticked just to yank the engine out, sell it for a fraction of what I bought it for, pay even MORE labor in yanking to GET RID OF IT, and turn around and drop in a 350. I've spent good hard earned money on this 305, and now for that reason, in addition to the reasons stated above, I'd like to keep it and build upon it.
So, since I have no idea where to start in this category, what exactly am I gonna need to get this little 305 of mione stroked to a 334? Please keep in mind future modifications I'd like to do after the stroking is done. New heads, new valvetrain, and even further down the road a supercharger kit are just some of the items on my list.
Last edited by FireDemonSiC; 12-29-2008 at 06:33 PM.
I know that right now only a couple threads down on the list there is another post on this exact same subject going on right now, but I wanted to start a fresh post that I can keep track of from scratch.
I know that anything 305 related isn't the most desired engine, but members and moderators alike, please, I'd really appreciate it if everyone could keep their 350/383 comments out. I know these are great engines, and I know they would be more cost effective. But, my reasons are as follows:
1: THE number one reason I want to build a 334 is because no matter where I go, 305's and 334's alike have always been called boat anchors, junk engines and etc. I've always been one to buck the trend, and I'd much more prefer the challenge of building a 334 than tossing in a generic 350 and calling it a day. I have seen MANY 305's that were done RIGHT, and made mince meat of most of the competition. This will make for even a greater experience when you beat someone in a 350/383 knowing you had "just a 305".
2: EVERY BUBBA AND HIS FREAKIN UNCLE has 350's and 383's. I have ALWAYS been to buck the trend. Individuality is very important to me. Where chrome is all the rage, I chose gloss black. When iPod's were all the rage, I bought a Zen. When RAZR's were the number one phone at the time, I bought a SLVR. This has always been my nature. And I don't want to monkey see monkey do my engine. I want individuality.
3: For reasons I will not go into detail about, I had no choice but to buy a professionally rebuilt 305 to drop in my Z28 when the original 305 went to junkyard heaven. After all the money I spent in parts and labor (Over 2 grand), I'd be extremely ticked just to yank the engine out, sell it for a fraction of what I bought it for, pay even MORE labor in yanking to GET RID OF IT, and turn around and drop in a 350. I've spent good hard earned money on this 305, and now for that reason, in addition to the reasons stated above, I'd like to keep it and build upon it.
So, since I have no idea where to start in this category, what exactly am I gonna need to get this little 305 of mione stroked to a 334? Please keep in mind future modifications I'd like to do after the stroking is done. New heads, new valvetrain, and even further down the road a supercharger kit are just some of the items on my list.
I won't flame you about it and as far as I am concerned you can do as you please with your car. You'll get no crap from me for it. Ok, with that out of the way, I'll get on to parts.
First things needed to stroke a 305: .030" over pistons (3.766"), 5.7" rods, and a crankshaft that has a 3.75" stroke. If you don't need/want forged parts, enginekits.com makes a stroker kit for the 305 that costs $650 for the kit before machining (https://shop.enginekits.com/osb/itemdetails.cfm?ID=341). You'll also need to have the block clearanced for a 3.75" stroke, the entire rotating assembly balanced, and the cylinders bored .030" over.
If you want an all forged setup (I'm assuming you do since you're planning on FI), then you're looking to spend $2000 on pistons, rods, & crank before machining. Links:
I also linked in my parts list that I have going for my 334 stroker build. That way you can get an idea of what all goes into an engine build and how much it'll be. Desktop Dyno 2003 estimates that my engine will make 427fwhp and 408fwtq as configured with those parts.
What exactly is involved in clearancing and balancing?
Clearancing is whats required to make space for a larger crank (stroke)
Usually most of the clearance is needed on the bottom of the bores and oil pan rails.
The other place where clearance is sometimes needed is the top of the connecting rod bolts to clear the camshaft.
Balancing is done by good machine shops and is highly recommended.
Take the crank, pistons, rods, balancer and flywheel any good machine shop will be able to balance everything. The machine shop I work with even has me bring the crank pulley.
Clearancing is whats required to make space for a larger crank (stroke)
Usually most of the clearance is needed on the bottom of the bores and oil pan rails.
The other place where clearance is sometimes needed is the top of the connecting rod bolts to clear the camshaft.
Balancing is done by good machine shops and is highly recommended.
Take the crank, pistons, rods, balancer and flywheel any good machine shop will be able to balance everything. The machine shop I work with even has me bring the crank pulley.
Assuming this is an internally balanced engine, I would not want the balancer or flexplate brought into the equation. thats just me. Also, if you are buying an aftermarket crank(you really wouldnt use a stock crank turned down, wouldyou?) pop out the cash for one that is internally balanced. You will thank yourself down the road.
Take the crank, pistons, rods, balancer and flywheel any good machine shop will be able to balance everything. The machine shop I work with even has me bring the crank pulley.
I'm assuming that when you say balancer, you're referring to the harmonic balancer.
Originally Posted by ljnowell
Assuming this is an internally balanced engine, I would not want the balancer or flexplate brought into the equation. thats just me. Also, if you are buying an aftermarket crank(you really wouldnt use a stock crank turned down, wouldyou?) pop out the cash for one that is internally balanced. You will thank yourself down the road.
What is the difference between internal balance and external balance?
Assuming this is an internally balanced engine, I would not want the balancer or flexplate brought into the equation. thats just me. Also, if you are buying an aftermarket crank(you really wouldnt use a stock crank turned down, wouldyou?) pop out the cash for one that is internally balanced. You will thank yourself down the road.
The more brought into the equation the better the balance will be guaranteed
The more rotating parts you have balanced the better right?
Example would be you build an internally balanced motor and install an aftermarket flywheel that is not balanced correctly from the manufacturer. Start up the vehicle and find the motor has a slight vibration at 2200 rpm that annoys the hell out of you. How would a person find out what is vibrating? Short of pulling the motor to find the vibration most people would just live with it.
If it was all balanced together no vibration will exist. Barring that the machine shop does a good job.
When I swapped the lt1 into my car it came out of an auto car. So when I swapped the motor I pulled the auto flywheel (flex plate) and had my manual flywheel match balanced to the auto to make sure no vibrations would exist.
Originally Posted by 89_RS
I'm assuming that when you say balancer, you're referring to the harmonic balancer.
Correct
What is the difference between internal balance and external balance?
Internal balance means all the balance is kept within the rotating assembly, external balance rely on large weights on the flywheel and harmonic balancer to keep it from vibrating.
The more rotating parts you have balanced the better right?
Until you go to replace your flexplate and you find out that the shop deviated from the stock balance and now you need to tear the entire engine apart to rebalance it.
Until you go to replace your flexplate and you find out that the shop deviated from the stock balance and now you need to tear the entire engine apart to rebalance it.
That being my entire point. I like to keep that away from happening.
i wouldnt go forged parts for this build unless you wanted to spray the car or run some sort of boost. Since you say supercharger, then build the motor right now.
Forged pistons, lower compression is what you want for boost but that will make this motor fairly weak for a while til the blower goes on. keep that in mind.
i wouldnt go forged parts for this build unless you wanted to spray the car or run some sort of boost. Since you say supercharger, then build the motor right now.
Forged pistons, lower compression is what you want for boost but that will make this motor fairly weak for a while til the blower goes on. keep that in mind.
depending on how much boost you want to run for your power goals. Any decent 9-15 psi supercharger kit should use around 9 to 1 compression.
9 to 1 with aluminum heads that is. Iron heads, i'd go abit lower. 9 to 1 with aluminum is still gonna be ok on the street for the time being without the blower. It wont make the torque like a 10-10.5 to 1 motor will but it shouldnt be a total dog either.
Guys, I have little knowledge on how heads works and the numbers involved with them because until now, I never really bothered to take interest in them.
What are important numbers/factors to look at when considering heads for an engine? I am looking at THE BEST set of heads for a 305/334 (You can count the 4 valkve heads out).
- How to select the OPTIMAL chamber and runner size/length for your build
- How valve size affects performance (I know bigger generally means better, but I know too big can actually hurt performance. And I know choosing anything with an intake bigger than 1.94 on a 305 bore is not a wise decision).
- How aluminum heads compare to iron heads other than weight
Now, I am leaning toward a good set of aluminum 1.94 58cc heads. I have been told that 58cc would be great, would again this is hearsay. I lack the actual knowledge in order to make my own decision. The same thing with the ups and downs of aluminum vs iron, and the "This porridge is just right" size of intake and exhaust valves.
Price is not an issue here, so long as we are not talking about the 4 valve cylinder heads that cost more than the whole build would.
If someone can make a good reccomendation or steer me in the right direction to some good literature, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.
Guys, I have little knowledge on how heads works and the numbers involved with them because until now, I never really bothered to take interest in them.
What are important numbers/factors to look at when considering heads for an engine? I am looking at THE BEST set of heads for a 305/334 (You can count the 4 valkve heads out).
- How to select the OPTIMAL chamber and runner size/length for your build
- How valve size affects performance (I know bigger generally means better, but I know too big can actually hurt performance. And I know choosing anything with an intake bigger than 1.94 on a 305 bore is not a wise decision).
- How aluminum heads compare to iron heads other than weight
Now, I am leaning toward a good set of aluminum 1.94 58cc heads. I have been told that 58cc would be great, would again this is hearsay. I lack the actual knowledge in order to make my own decision. The same thing with the ups and downs of aluminum vs iron, and the "This porridge is just right" size of intake and exhaust valves.
Price is not an issue here, so long as we are not talking about the 4 valve cylinder heads that cost more than the whole build would.
If someone can make a good reccomendation or steer me in the right direction to some good literature, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.
If you are planning on a budget engine, a set of 113s would be a pretty good choice, if you can get them. Remember AL takes a little more compression, and should get it, in agood combo.
I don't have any problem with you muscling up the 305. Heads, cam, exhaust, induction - all viable power enhancements with good return on investment. Even supercharger - have at it.
But, the $'s/HP for stroking just doesn't make sense. You can double the stock 305 HP with the above NA mods, supercharging will add even more. Stroking adds about 10%.
Some of the worst reasons to spend money on a 305 bottom end:
1) Everybody has a 350/383/whatever.
2) I have the 305.
3) The money I already have in the 305.
4) I want to be "different" (different is nothing more than another way of saying slower and more expensive).
Like I said, go ahead and make a fast 305 if you like. But, I can't sit here and remain silent, even if you want me to, when you start talking about stroking a 305. Because, somebody is going to do a search some day (yes, it sometimes happens) and if nothing is said to the contrary, they may get the idea that it's a good idea. It isn't.
I appreciate younot rubbing a 350 in my face. And I understand your concern for properly educating the users on this board, but I have to disagree with you on reason number 4. This is another slap in the face piece of advice. Yes I agree you will spend more money, but you won't necessarially go slower.
We're not talking a big block here. Once the mods reach a certain level the differences in performance become negligible, considering money is not a factor. Without taking into account money spent, I'm sure the difference between a tooth and tong 305 and 350 isn't considerable, the same way you stated the difference between a 305 and a 334 isn't a whole lot to write home about. I'm sure whoever has decided to build a 305 has done their homework and has their reasons.
10% for going to a 334? I don't doubt you, but do you have any literature to relate to this? That seems like an awful lot of money for 10%... Kinda makes you wonder why the option is even out there. But I guess your right that displacement alone won't do a whole lot. Stock for stock the LB9 and L98 only had usually a 20 - 30HP difference...
Stock for stock the LB9 and L98 are rated net. Gross flywheel difference (which everybody uses once the modifications start) will be more.
Every stroker 305 write-up I've seen included cam, heads, and exhaust changes. Apples & oranges. With a baseline of 1 HP/cubic inch (a reasonable number for modified engines), the stroker will add about 10% to the mix.
No, #4 is not another slap in the face. For the $'s spent, you will be slower. The same money spent on a 305, if spent on a 350, will make the 350 faster. I could say the same for my LS1/T56 swap - it is somewhat "different", but the same money spent on a proven SBC combination would be faster than this will be (a bit of an apples & oranges comparison, because there are other benefits to the LS1, and modifications to those engines tend to make even more power).
You can be fairly certain that the combination you end up with will be unique. Yes, there are a bunch of 350's out there, but there are even more 305's. Yes, I have a 350 in my 3rd gen, but there aren't many 1982 Berlinetta 350 '86 LG4 q-jet Hooker header 3" Pacesetter 3" single Magnaflow TH700R-4 2500 stall Megashifter 3.23 posi 28-spline support cover 14"-tired dark green metallic exterior black interior AC PS PW PDL cruise Camaros out there.
The only way you will be sure that a 350 will be faster for less money than either a 305 or LS1 is if the cars are all identical (i.e. weigh the same, same suspension, ect.) Other than that, the statement that a 350 is faster for less money than a 305 or LS1 is very general.
Example:
I put a built 305 in car that weighs 1500lbs less than a car with a built 350. It'd be a pretty close race and my money is on the car that weighs less.
There are so many factors that ultimately determine how fast a car will go with a given engine. Only in the case where all the cars are identical and driving abilities are the same will the engine ever show up as the determining factor in winning.
Stock for stock the LB9 and L98 are rated net. Gross flywheel difference (which everybody uses once the modifications start) will be more.
Every stroker 305 write-up I've seen included cam, heads, and exhaust changes. Apples & oranges. With a baseline of 1 HP/cubic inch (a reasonable number for modified engines), the stroker will add about 10% to the mix.
No, #4 is not another slap in the face. For the $'s spent, you will be slower. The same money spent on a 305, if spent on a 350, will make the 350 faster. I could say the same for my LS1/T56 swap - it is somewhat "different", but the same money spent on a proven SBC combination would be faster than this will be (a bit of an apples & oranges comparison, because there are other benefits to the LS1, and modifications to those engines tend to make even more power).
You can be fairly certain that the combination you end up with will be unique. Yes, there are a bunch of 350's out there, but there are even more 305's. Yes, I have a 350 in my 3rd gen, but there aren't many 1982 Berlinetta 350 '86 LG4 q-jet Hooker header 3" Pacesetter 3" single Magnaflow TH700R-4 2500 stall Megashifter 3.23 posi 28-spline support cover 14"-tired dark green metallic exterior black interior AC PS PW PDL cruise Camaros out there.
True. Although all I was saying was that to people who build up the 305 it is a slap in the face due to the fact that they already know what they are getting into and have their reasons but yet are constantly told that they will be "slower" and warned about the money involved, when the former isn't true to an extent and the latter they already know about.
The thing is though, if I'm going to change the internals out to forged I might as well stroke the engine while I'm at it. The same thing as the old logic of if you spend the time to pull a 305 out, you might as well just drop a 350 back in.
The only way you will be sure that a 350 will be faster for less money than either a 305 or LS1 is if the cars are all identical (i.e. weigh the same, same suspension, ect.) Other than that, the statement that a 350 is faster for less money than a 305 or LS1 is very general.
Example:
I put a built 305 in car that weighs 1500lbs less than a car with a built 350. It'd be a pretty close race and my money is on the car that weighs less.
There are so many factors that ultimately determine how fast a car will go with a given engine. Only in the case where all the cars are identical and driving abilities are the same will the engine ever show up as the determining factor in winning.
Getting apples-to-apples is always the problem. My 305 to 350 swap involved an identical driver with almost identical car - heads, exhaust, converter, gears were the same, cam slightly different, transmission rebuilt for the 350. Doing heads, cam, intake, exhaust, converter on the 305 took 1 second off the stock 305 1/4 mile ET, while the 350 shortblock with less duration/more lift cam and rebuilt tranny took another 1.4 seconds off.
Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC
True. Although all I was saying was that to people who build up the 305 it is a slap in the face due to the fact that they already know what they are getting into and have their reasons but yet are constantly told that they will be "slower" and warned about the money involved, when the former isn't true to an extent and the latter they already know about.
If you already know what you're getting into, it should be water off a duck's back. Regardless of what is said here, it is still the individual's choice in the end how to spend their money and what to do with their car.
Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC
The thing is though, if I'm going to change the internals out to forged I might as well stroke the engine while I'm at it. The same thing as the old logic of if you spend the time to pull a 305 out, you might as well just drop a 350 back in.
I wouldn't say that. First, I wouldn't recommend putting forged internals in. But, even if you did that, and you are supercharging, a little more pressure will make more power cheaper than stroking will.
Originally Posted by FireDemonSiC
BTW, what is your advice/education on heads?
I've never built a SC engine, and haven't educated myself extensively on the details of it like heads. From what I've gathered, though, the same "rules" seem to apply, although efficient chambers seem to be more beneficial (verses good port flow). Vortecs would shine in that department, but I can't say I've seen a lot of information about SC Vortec headed engines. There are a lot of SC LT1's out there, and Vortecs are comparable to LT1 chambers.
wanna be different, destroke it and with a new cam/heads combo and some electronics you can have a 9krpm screamer..... had a buddy that did it with a 302, put down 386hp at 7800pfm
wanna be different, destroke it and with a new cam/heads combo and some electronics you can have a 9krpm screamer..... had a buddy that did it with a 302, put down 386hp at 7800pfm
Let me clarify what you are saying here. You wan't me to DESTROKE the 305? The stroke on the 305 is what makes up for It's small bore size. Why on Earth would I destroke it? That would have to be the weakest V8 in existence...
Originally Posted by five7kid
I wouldn't say that. First, I wouldn't recommend putting forged internals in. But, even if you did that, and you are supercharging, a little more pressure will make more power cheaper than stroking will.
I thought that running boost on stock cast internals was a very bad idea...
I appreciate younot rubbing a 350 in my face. And I understand your concern for properly educating the users on this board, but I have to disagree with you on reason number 4. This is another slap in the face piece of advice. Yes I agree you will spend more money, but you won't necessarially go slower.
We're not talking a big block here. Once the mods reach a certain level the differences in performance become negligible, considering money is not a factor. Without taking into account money spent, I'm sure the difference between a tooth and tong 305 and 350 isn't considerable, the same way you stated the difference between a 305 and a 334 isn't a whole lot to write home about. I'm sure whoever has decided to build a 305 has done their homework and has their reasons.
10% for going to a 334? I don't doubt you, but do you have any literature to relate to this? That seems like an awful lot of money for 10%... Kinda makes you wonder why the option is even out there. But I guess your right that displacement alone won't do a whole lot. Stock for stock the LB9 and L98 only had usually a 20 - 30HP difference...
Thats the whole problem it isnt much gain. You are gaining roughly 10% of CI. That will equate to a 10% gain with modification. No matter what though, if you took all of the same parts from a built 305 and put them on a 350 the 350 will make more power. Period. No replacement for displacement. Even with a supercharger that rule applies.
Originally Posted by z28fever
wanna be different, destroke it and with a new cam/heads combo and some electronics you can have a 9krpm screamer..... had a buddy that did it with a 302, put down 386hp at 7800pfm
Do you realise what it takes to get a cam in block V style engine like SBC to be reliable to 9K RPMs? All those stories you hear about destroking and getting RPMs like that, are just that, stories. Not gonna happen. A lot more goes into RPM potential than stroke. Why build an engine that has to spin 7800RPMs to make a measly 386hp? You can build a bigger displacement engine (350-383) that will achieve that power level under 6K RPMs, and live a long healthy life. We have a phrase to describe engines like you posted "Small Block Grenade".
Yea, and those circle lappers either have more invested in their motor than most have in their entire car, or they build an engine per race.
I have the high RPM stuff, and fit in the former category. And from experience, it's a 100% worthless motor on the street. And it has 100 more cubes than what you describe.
regarless, i was just making a point, that if he wanted to be different there were other options...
second, if you ever get the chance to hear a sbc screaming past 7k, you wont soon forget it...
thrid, most circle lap race trucks use a 305-315 that can sit on a 65-75k band all night... so please hush about being a "small block grenade"
but to what i originally said, i was just offering a different view
I will not hush. Those engines are built to withstand it, and it has nothing to do with stroke as you have said. There is a big difference between a circle track engine that sits at 6500 and a 9K rpm engine. HUGE. The stroke isnt limiting RPM potential at the 7K mark, the valvetrain is.
As far as listening to an engine at that RPM, I have one in my garage in one of my other cars, you can come over and listen to it at 7K if you want.
I'm willing to bet that I have a little more experience than you at building engines, at least for money. I can promise you that changing the stroke will not increase the potential for RPMs. It will simply push the power curve up higher in the RPM range. Big difference.
Has anyone tried the 3.75'' crank with a 3.4'' connecting rod? I blueprinted mine over a year ago with lots of research and math, and i cant for the life of me remember why I chose those rods. Im pretty sure the engine killed itself now and its time to pull the trigger on this build. It made some teeth grinding metal on metal screaches after shitting its oil out. I didnt realize it was dry till it was too late.
You mean the rods that are commonly used on 3.48” stroke deals? Those would be 5.7” long and yes have been used on 3.75 cranks all the time but its not ideal. 6” rod would be better for a lighter piston but either rod length works as long as you have the right piston height
Hey guys, I just joined after purchasing an 89 firebird trans am from a guy's backyard. I've started the teardown process and considering a stroker kit for the 305. It sounds cool and I think with the addition of some top-end performance add ons (cam, heads, intake) the engine could really scream. The exhaust is a no-brainer, headers, and dual 3" pipes all the way back. Is there any good literature out there on stroking a 305? Anyway, glad to be on the forum participating with GEN3 owners.
Is there any good literature out there on stroking a 305? Anyway, glad to be on the forum participating with GEN3 owners.
There is a guy here that spent quite a bit of money trying to optimize a 305 stroker just as a hobby. I think the most he could get out of it was around 330 RWHP. I wish I had the link for you. But I'll bet somebody else posts it up pretty quick here.
Bottom line is the SBC engine works better with a bigger bore diameter. You get access to much better cylinder heads. People that make good power with a 5.0L engine didn't do it with a 305, they have a bigger bore 350 or 400 that's been destroked. It's all SBC parts, it all costs similar, but the results are way different.
Ditto on QwkTrip's comments. People have done it, put more money in it than building a 350 short block, and the results always fall short of the 350. We're not trying to discourage you in building up your car, but you can pick up a 350 and rebuild it with less money involved.
Now, I would do an internally balanced 334 if I were doing a "matching numbers" build, but I don't think the market for doing that with "305 cars" is quite there yet.
Thanks, guys. It's a lot to think about. I still have to do the interior, suspension, all the glass rubbers, and paint. So I'm torn on what to do with the engine. I like the idea of number matching. I also thought of changing it to a manual 4 speed, just so I could enjoy the shifting experience again. I could go with a 350 or maybe a 400, uhhuummm???? and hold on to the original motor in case number matching becomes a bigger deal in the future. It would also give me an extra motor to play with. This is how I found her.
I could go with a 350 or maybe a 400, uhhuummm???? and hold on to the original motor in case number matching becomes a bigger deal in the future.
What's a big deal is having fun with the car.
As you're dreaming and scheming, keep in mind the capability of stock trans, rear axle, brakes, chassis, ect. There are break points of torque/power that if you cross you will spend a lot of money on upgraded parts.
That's where the LS swap shines because you get a better engine and transmission all in one shot. The stock rear axle will carry you to ~400 Hp with manual trans.
Originally Posted by bregister1
I also thought of changing it to a manual 4 speed
Manual trans needs quite a bit of gearing by nature just to get moving briskly in 1st gear. The old 4-speeds don't have an overdrive gear so engine will be turning 2500-4000 rpm just driving around at 55+ mph. That's a lot of wear and tear on engine just to drive down the road. A 5 or 6 speed trans with overdrive will tame it a LOT on the freeway. My engine gets a whooooole lot quieter around 1800 rpm which is awfully nice sometimes. I'm definitely no fan of cruising at 3000 rpm. I spent too much on my engine to wear it out just driving at constant throttle. And I'm sure you'll feel the same way after your engine is built.
Hey guys, I just joined after purchasing an 89 firebird trans am from a guy's backyard. I've started the teardown process and considering a stroker kit for the 305. It sounds cool and I think with the addition of some top-end performance add ons (cam, heads, intake) the engine could really scream. The exhaust is a no-brainer, headers, and dual 3" pipes all the way back. Is there any good literature out there on stroking a 305? Anyway, glad to be on the forum participating with GEN3 owners.
There used to be some on Super Chevy. But it appears they have shut down the site entirely. The Way Back machine could maybe pull it up. I can find a link if needed. Its in my favorites somewhere. But I've done one myself as well from an L03 (the TBI 305). I spent $17.5k on my build and got 604hp / 587tq at the crank. But it only runs on E85R, compression is too high for pump gas. If you are happy with 375-400hp, you dont need to go that crazy with it. If you have 17-18k to drop on it, I can provide my build bible for it. Just keep in mind that a build like that is track use only. Unless you wanna be spending like 400$ a week in fuel to daily drive it and order race fuel by the barrel. For a street build, get the block ready for build and figure out what you need decked off it, if any. If you are doing it yourself, you need to have experience for this because its really easy to get super high compression and have to run a super solid copper gasket to keep it down (giant quench area, not ideal). If you plan to have a builder do it, dont worry about the specifics, let them figure out the math for deck, gasket, etc. Ok parts suggestions for street build, 195 or 210cc TFS Super 23 heads. Get some with titanium valve retainers and double springs with a damper (assembled) if you plan to run high lift and 7k RPM redlines. Its not strictly necessary to have a valvetrain like that, its just durable and youll be able to trust it more. And it'll save the engine if it breaks a spring, because it wont be able to drop the valve. The 195cc is fine for 6000-6500 redlines. You may want the 210 or even the 220cc head above 7k RPM. Those larger heads will drop a little velocity and thus drop bottom end a little, especially with the kind of cam youll have to pair with it to help it breathe at high rpm, but it will pick that back up in the top end, making it good for drag racing where youll be mostly in the upper RPM anyway. If you have a 334 stroker "kit" thats fine, as long as its forged. Youll want forged if you start cranking up the redline or plan to boost it. The only thing I would change, which likely isnt in the kit, is gas ported pistons. Yes, its worth it. Youll pick up some power there. I used 17cc dome gas ported pistons. If done with the proper cam, you can hit 12.4:1 compression and still be able to run on 93 using domes like that, but youll be running a taller gasket than normal. IF you boost from there, consider solid copper gasket and O-ring setup because thick MLS gaskets on a setup like that are gonna be at risk of blowing out. Whereas the solid copper ones can basically be boosted to the moon, given you have proper head bolts, like that new super alloy that ARP makes. Those head bolts alone are like $1200 though so... It just depends on how crazy you wanna get. For the exhaust side, shorties into a Y pipe for low end torque, long tubes with true duel and maybe an X or H pipe to help with scavenging for more top end power but lower bottom end. Cam, thats gonna be up to you and how you want the engine to behave, and what compression ratio you are running. For aluminum or chrmoly heads (cools better) with good cooling system, the rule of thumb for dynamic compression is 8.5:1 for pump gas to be safe. You can push that a little if she stays cool, just be careful. Dont go above 9:1 dynamic on 93 octane. You need to mind this if you wanna boost too. If you hit right at 8.5 dynamic, you have to run race fuels to boost, and youll limit how many PSI you can do on those race fuels, moreso than if you had a more agressive cam. The tradeoff there being the more agressive the cam, the more bottom end you loose and the higher the redline will have to be for it to be worth it. For intake, i used a 'Pro Flo 4 XT' from Edelbrock. Its a self contained port injected system with its own ECU, which learns by itself and doesnt need to be tuned. You just open the dashboard app on your phone or the tablet it comes with and tell it what your engine is (displacement, cylinder count, peak RPM, etc) and it will do the rest. With 334 stroker on gas ported pistons, 210CC heads, Pro Flo 4 XT, long tubes, and an aggressive cam, youre looking at ballpark 400hp. Your fuel injector and fuel system is gonna depend on how much power you intend to make. I got 1700CC in mine which was super overkill, but it allowed me to run stuff like meth/ethanol mixes or left the door open for boost. You generally wanna find out what you minimum flow rate should be, and then go a step or 2 above that. That gives you a cushion when it comes to running a lot of timing, and it will help the injectors live longer because they wont be at 100% load all the time. Its also a good idea to have just in case you overheat because the engine will need more fuel to keep the knock away there, which will protect the engine till you can shut her down. Oh and one last side note before I forget, the 2 bolt mains blocks handle about 550tq/600hp before they start flexing. And ARP hardware is an absolute must. If you plan to go above that, youll need to consider a cross-bolted 4 bolt main modification (expensive).
Sorry I know this is a bit all over the place. Im trying to get it all out of my head at once and its making a mess lol. If you have questions or if i forgot something or wasnt clear, just ask. Honest opinion though... Yes 334 strokers can be nasty and make the LS guys cry when you build it right. But unless you are locked into 334 displacements like we were in sprint racing, the price per horse isnt gonna be worth it given alternatives. I cant stand LS swaps, but theres no getting around this... Price per dollar, the LS is gonna be a better deal. Especially if you can find an LS7 on the cheap. Those things will outdo a built 334 stroker out of the box, before you bolt anything to it. They are about 20% more powerful and cost about $13,000, versus my $17,500 334 stroker. The only reason I did a stroker like that was because it was a class restriction. You need to consider your budget first. THEN figure out if a 334 is right for you.
Thanks, guys this is a lot of good information. I really just want to have fun with the car driving to shows with the family, but want respectable HP and that awesome V8 roar. Would like to smoke the tires occasionally. I have some time and budget, that I can grow as I complete the interior and bodywork. I saw some posts about a 383 stroker that looks and sounds cool. I have rebuilt V8s, IL6s, and VW engines all the way down to the mains and back up, that's what we did in high school back in the day. This is the first rebuild I've done in a while and would like to do more, but hey one at a time. I'm not a professional mechanic but have enough experience and skills to read through the shop manuals and after-market instructions. I bag and tag everything I remove and take photos with my smartphone. I would like to get about 400HP out of whichever engine I install.
Thanks, guys this is a lot of good information. I really just want to have fun with the car driving to shows with the family, but want respectable HP and that awesome V8 roar. Would like to smoke the tires occasionally. I have some time and budget, that I can grow as I complete the interior and bodywork. I saw some posts about a 383 stroker that looks and sounds cool. I have rebuilt V8s, IL6s, and VW engines all the way down to the mains and back up, that's what we did in high school back in the day. This is the first rebuild I've done in a while and would like to do more, but hey one at a time. I'm not a professional mechanic but have enough experience and skills to read through the shop manuals and after-market instructions. I bag and tag everything I remove and take photos with my smartphone. I would like to get about 400HP out of whichever engine I install.
With modern aftermarket heads and roller cams you can just about sneeze in a 350 or 383s general direction and make 400-450 hp with stock like driveability. My power goal was 500 hp for the 383 that went into my Express van that I tow with. Even it gets great mpg and has near stock 350 Vortec driveability.
12-29-2008, 06:30 PM
