Ever since I got my headers (3 years ago), whether coincidence or not but I've been experiencing starter failures. In 1 year alone I went thru 4 starters and now it looks like I will be going thru a 5th.

Once starter died in 1 week (failed bench test) so I returned it and had it replaced. Then that one died in like 2 weeks (loud TICKING when it would engage as if it were hitting the flywheel), replaced it and then the next lasted like a month before it too began to have issues and turned out was running too slow. All of them had the same symptom where they would work, then SUDDENLY nothing. Start the car (whether via key or remote start) and it would be dead silent. BCAA came each time and proved there was current right to the starter and was unable to understand why the starter was not working. EACH time it would start with a good hit with a hammer or wrench. However it can also just work all of a sudden. I could get up in the morning for work, remote start/turn key and dead silence, try it multiple times and just give up.. I can came back 15 mins later and suddenly it works.. Nothing to do with it overheating since the car is cold.

I've taken the car to multiple shops and mechanics and they are all puzzled.They all claim that they need to experience the issues to be able to diagnose it but it is so random that it could be working perfectly for months, then I could go to the gas station and suddenly doesn't work.

The last mechanic told me this is common with headers?? Are you telling me all because of my headers that I will have to not be able to rely on whether or not the car will even start or be towed??

What can it be and how could I test it?

Thanks

 

I always had a problem with starters and headers, i bought a mini starter and my problems were over. Seeing you said it happens in the morning though is kind of puzzling.What starter are you using?

 

It can happen ANYTIME. Whether the car is hot, driving for 5 mins.. Driving for 20 mins.. Not driven in a day.. or run up the street to the corner store.. At complete random.

I have what I have been told as a more top of the line model; Bosche Lifttime warranty New manufactured SR526N

 

How much was your mini-starter? High torque starter? Did you notice any starting differences? Where did you get yours? straight install? (no mod needed)

 

Have you checked the entire ignition circuit?

Have you tried applying 12v directly to the purple starter wire at the starter when this happens? If you apply 12v directly to the starter right where the purple wire connects to it, and it turns, then it's not the starter - although you stated you tested the bad starters and they were all indeed bad.

I installed a mini starter and it's been great. Most will bolt in regardless of which flywheel you use, and regardless of staggered or straight bolt pattern. I got mine off ebay fo under $90 shipped - although I see you are in Canada. The one I got looks like this, but this isn't it: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Summi...Q5fAccessories

 

its not uncommon for headers to cause a starter solenoid to burn out due to the excessive heat. take a look into a remote-mount solenoid kit or build one yourself. I went through 3 starters in less than 2 months when I did my header swap. Did the remote solenoid kit (with one of the "dead" starters too) and ran that same starter until I sold the car 2 years later. A mini starter's nice, but a lot more expensive; I believe it was about $25 to do the remote setup.

 

i think the starter was around 125ish, its been awhile. I ordered one from jegs online. It made a huge difference with starting, it also sounded awsome when i cranked the key. I would just sit in the car and start it, and shut it off, too do it over again lol

You could fab up a heat shield also, it will help with not burning out the starter, but with a mini starter installed, heat was never an issue, even without a heat shield.

 

Didn't have time to read all of it but it sounds like you have a dead spot on the starter. Whenever it randomly ends up on the dead spot it won't turn over and hitting it with a hammer is one of the ways to get it to work because it jars the motor from it's current position. It's sometimes caused from trying to start the car with a low battery because current flows while the motor stays in place.

 

I am getting an AC Delco High-Torque Mini starter installed tomorrow.

Any opinions on the AC Delco brand as apposed to the Powermaster? Anyone happen to know WHICH AC Delco one they would be installing? I asked and they didn't want to say which model number.

 

am sure that will be fine. Just curiosity, what battery is in the car? how do the connections look, is there alot of corrosion over the connectors?

 

Gelcell

 

I ended up with a Power Master for mine. I haven't had any issues with it but I also added a wrap around heat shield when I installed it.

 

What is the reason that all I hear is "get the Power master" and NEVER have I heard anything about the AC Delco? In fact I can't even find any website (ie. jegs, summitracing) with a list of the AC Delco starter?

There must be some real difference between the two.. ?

 

I've had a Hitachi PSL100 starter on mine for a few years now, zero problems with it. So far out of the ones I've tried, it gives the most clearance.

 

What differences did you notice between the regular sized starter and your mini-starter? I've read a number of times about some type of audible spinup whine with the mini?

 

I have been using a stock starter covered in a heat reflective wrap for over five years with no problems. The wrap keeps it from being cooked by the headers.

 

Heck of a lot easier to put in since it doesn't weigh a ton and comes with ARP bolts. Dunno about the sound difference, just sounds like a regular starter to me. The fancy gear reduction I had on before (2 of them crapped out before switching to this) had a bit different sound. Picked up the Hitachi from the local Napa which made it great if there was a problem.

 

theres a big difference in the sound of the stock and mini. Hard to describe but mini's sound much better

 

I probably would have gone with the Delco version but I wasn't sure what part number to order. I needed the smaller size due to my headers. IIRC, the Power Master I have is also adjustable which may help with the install. The battery cable ends up being a bit short though, that's one of the drawbacks that I did notice.

 

Denso type as factory fitted to the '89 -'96 Vettes
(for 153 tooth )

Mine is 20yo , 1/2" off the headers and spins my 12:1 383 easy.
With the right tune it doesn't even crank over; just fires straight up





Cheaper as well
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHEVY...Q5fAccessories
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-C...Q5fAccessories

 

Huh, that might have been a better option. At least it would have saved me some money.

 

vetteoz was that bolt in and go or did you have to modify anything? I may have to get one of those when mine goes bad.Looks like a good option.I looks like that starter was used in 88 also. Thanks Dave

 

Have to change mounting bolts to suit ( shorter ) and possible changes to main battery cable depending where yours is now
1/3 weight of old style Delco shown.
You will really appreciate it if you have been lying on your back under car holding old starter up with two hands while trying to get a bolt started with your 3rd

 

Don't waste your money with a mini starter. They make starter wraps that keep the heat from getting to the starter. Advanced auto parts and autozone should carry them. It looks like aluminum foil one side and and a heavy clothe on the other. It worked for me and I had the same problem. The starter fails because it is so close to the headers that the heat from the headers make the starter fail. Mechanics said the same thing. They were puzzled and never heard of it. Good Luck hope this helps you.

 

too late, already got the Delco one ;-)

 

I have long tubes and I tried everything before I replaced the starter. Heat wraps, shields, remote solenoids, none fixed my hot start problems that were killing the solenoid (Even the remote solenoid did nothing to help which I found perplexing) and it never stopped until I got an LT1 starter. I got a junkyard one off ebay for $30. Still going strong.

 

That Denso is what I use too.

As for the starter wraps, the real issue is not so much the starter getting hot, it's the starter solenoid getting hot and causing a problem with an undersized wire in the starter solenoid itself.
The heat raises the winding resistence in the solenoid to where enough current to operate it cannot go thru the windings, ergo, too weak a magnetic field.
The easy fix is to install a brown high heat solenoid, part # 1114458

 

Thats why the selenoid gets wrapped too.

 

Did you even READ what I wrote? The blanket is a bandaid at best, tackle the root of the problem and you will be ahead of the game.

 

Don't know whether it is the position or construction of the Denso but you seldom see guys on the C4 Vette forums with starter problem like you do here on 3rd Gen unless they are worn out .Many running headers and no reports of heat soak with the Denso

 

Who are you replying to?

 

OK - kind of a highjacking here, but it directly relates and may help...

How does a remote solenoid help? I understand having a solenoid mounted away from the heat, but in the end the remote solenoid still pumps the juice through the heat-soaked solenoid on the starter. Isn't there still a 'breakdown' so-to-speak in the heat-soaked solenoid that the current has to fight it's way through in order for the starter to work?

BTW - if this question is explained and makes sense (I'm sure it will), them Summit sells remote solenoid kits for as little as $25 + shipping, and I've seen plenty of Ford solenoids on ebay for as little as $15 shipped (which is the same thing without all the wires and connectors which most of us already have lying about).

I've read from alot of folks that a remote solenoid helps tremendously, but I'm just confused as to the logic.

 

I built my own remote kit when I was 17 (39 now) after reading about this mod in Hot Rod magazine, for my 68 Camaro. I got tired of doing the screwdriver trick to start my car. This was before the aftermarket started selling these kits.

A couple of cables, couple of wires & a homemade bracket to fit between te 2 terminals on the stock starter & you can build it for as cheap as you can find the Ford solenoid.

It is a very worthwhile thing to do on a header equipped car.

 

here's a good write-up i found while looking around. this is exactly how i did mine

http://www.maliburacing.com/starter_solenoid.html

 

Yeah, I know how to wire it and what's needed - I just didn't ever know why it works since it's still running battery power through the hot wires in the on-starter solenoid. It was just a curiousity question - if anyone has an explaination I'll take it, if not I won't debate that it works, just curious as to how/why.

 

by doing this, you're taking the stock solenoid out of the equation (which is what that little wire jumper on the starter solenoid is for). you're bypassing all of the internal bits that go bad with heat and letting the remote one do the switching

 

The explanation of 'Why' is in the 2nd paragraph in that link.

 

Well the blanket worked for me and I have been driving my car for 2 years since I put the headers on...then again I just have SLP shortys on there. When I said wrap the starter I also meant the solenoid. Just sharing my successes with the wrap. It was cheap quick and easy. I am happy with it.

 

Never had a problem with my LT1 starter and my longtubes/383 setup. Didnt even wrap it.
With my turbo setup, my downpipes get alot hotter than any header and I have a summit ministarter with heat shield wrap on it. Downpipes are wrapped with heat wrap as well. No problems so far on hot restarts. I have heat shielding on the wires as well so the manifolds dont radiate heat to the wires. Its a matting type material with double side foil. It gets HOT under the hood but so far the wires and starter are fine.

 

I dont think you get how it works. The wrap insulates the starter and solenoid from a good portion of the heat from the headers. If thats a bandaid then so is insulation in the walls of your house.

 

No, I'm stupid...I don't know how a heat shield or blanket works.... some people here, downright insulting!

Yes, it's a bandaid because the problem is the solenoid itself. It was never designed to operate under those conditions, that's why GM has the high temp brown colored one, the part number is in my reply. THAT is a fix, using the correct parts.

 

I agree, but it probably is cheaper and easier just to heat insulate the solenoid and starter.

EDIT: Seems like the solenoid is around 40-50 bucks depending where you get it. Not a bad deal i guess. My LT1 starter was 30 bucks and heat wrap would be another 20 bucks or so depending so the cost is abit cheaper to use wrap/shielding.

 

Ok right. So are fiberglass sleeves on plug wires bandaids too? I guess I have bandaids all over my engine since I have similar insulation on my starter wires and heater box. Since you are into the non "bandaid" approach I guess the real problem here is we all don't have ceramic coated headers.

 

Even ceramic coated headers won't keep your plugs from melting. I have wrapped headers too and fiberglass sleeves around the plugs as well.

I'm just saying, there is a specific solenoid to remedy the solution, available from GM, specifically designed for the high heat environment.

 

Same here. I've had a Powermaster mini-starter wrapped in a DEI heat shield since I installed my headers eight years ago. Never had any issues with heat soak at all. Might be a band-aid, but its been working for me for nearly a decade.

 

Just for clarity, I will point out I never had problems with my 305 (I had the same exhaust with my 305 for a while as I got the 350 ready to swap in). It was only when I put some serious iron under the hood that the starter started having heatsoak issues. A little higher compression too.




My remote solenoid did help, but not very much. I was really disappointed with it.

 

I have the same starter that was on the car when I bought it 7 years and have had headers on it for 6 years.
Car had 100K when I bought and I put almost 100K in the 7 years I've own my Formula.