Hello all

I thought I’d impart a little bit of the knowledge I gained doing a door restoration on my 1991 RS. I set off initially to fix the windows. They were slow, as they all are, and I figured the tracks needed a good cleaning and since I was in there I’d take care of other things.

My initial thought was that I would add relays to the switches to bring power directly from the battery as I read it could speed things up.

FOLLY #1: It does NOT speed things up. There was NO difference between the factory wiring and the
relay setup. This was with brand new window motors. Look elsewhere for the speed cure.

The weather stripping on both the outside and inside window sweeps was shot so I decided to replace them with pieces from A1Auto. Quick delivery, good price, pieces look great!

FOLLY #2: These do NOT fit the car correctly. I had read this in another thread but dismissed it thinking as men sometimes do that I was a better installer than that poster and mine would be fine. They weren’t. The holes on the outside sweeps were nowhere near the factory holes and the inside sweeps had felt covered window guides that directly interfered with the front sail panel. They will require modification to install.

I have another car that has automatic up and down windows. I thought that would be really cool if I could do it and so I found and installed a DEI 530T window module. Wiring was very simple thanks to help from a Thirdgen.org members post.

FOLLY #3: The DEI 530T module has built in sensors to tell it when the window has reached the top and bottom of its travel and cut power. This DOES NOT WORK with the aforementioned relays in place! Since the input to the relay doesn’t actually go to the motor the sensors simply make the window go up an inch and stop with every push of the button. I know, I know, you’re saying “but DNSTA, you said the relays didn’t increase the speed. Why did you still use them?” I spent too much time wiring them up to not at least leave them in place… However, since the 530T won’t work with them, they are now not in the circuit.

One of the most annoying things with my doors was the rattle when shutting them. This was due mostly to the old, floppy door handles. I got new ones from a local place but they didn’t fit so I bought some online from Partstrain.com I believe.
FOLLY #4: Chinese door handles look great, are solid, heavy, cheap, and DO NOT FIT correctly. The driver’s side went on without a hitch but the passenger side needed copious amounts of grinding to even begin to operate without rubbing against the door panel. My car is in excellent condition and has never been in an accident so it wasn’t a bent door or previous damage that caused the issue.

All in all the project was a nightmare. I hated every minute of it and never want to do it again but…. The doors look great. They sound awesome when they close. The windows are SUPER fast and the one-touch module works like a charm. So if you’re brave and are willing to do quite a bit more work than previously thought your doors can be awesome like mine. 

P.S. On a directly related note, my driver’s side door hangs low and rubs my ground effects. I’ve read every post related to the hinges but everyone says that the way to know it’s the upper hinges is to pull up on the end of the door and if there’s slack or movement at the hinge they’re bad. Mine have no movement whatsoever. Any ideas what the issue could be? Could it still be the hinge?
The bump molding on the door is about an 8th of an inch low across the whole door compared to the pieces affixed to the fenders….

 

Try pulling up on the door with the door nearly shut. Mine showed no slack in the hinges with the door open but the slack was easily evident with the door near closed. Apparently the wear was not even.

I've installed a half dozen outer sweeps, both GM and aftermarket, and none lined up exactly with the factory mounting holes. The original fasteners were likely self tapped in a fair approximation of the desired mounting points.

 

Upon further inspection of the screws Itook out I believe you are correct about the factory using self-tappers. See, I'm wrong about that too.

I'll check the doors out when I get home. Did you end up doing the upper door hinges then to fix your problem?

 

Just to clarify, the DEI 530T should work as advertised with the stock wiring and relays?

Regarding your sagging issue, I would highly recommend replacing your door hinge pins. I would almost certainly bet that is your issue. I didn't have any up/down movement in my doors either, but I had some places where it appeared that my doors were rubbing a bit. After changing the pins my doors close smoothly. Be warned though, replacing the pins is not difficult but is a pain in the rear.

 

DNSTA - sorry to hear that the relay addition that I outlined in the other thread didn't work for you. However, please don't decry it as folly - it worked great in my case, windows got about 4 times faster than they were. Did you actually use heavy gauge cable? My windows cycle in about 3.5 secs, what did you end up with?

Also, you failed to mention you were working with a module which changes the game completely, after we went through so much effort to find out why our factory wiring setups were apparently behaving differently.

 

@ blacksunshine91

Thanks for the advice on the doors. I was planning on doing the hinges this winter but wanted to make sure they were the culprit before I got my hopes up. Regarding the 530T with the relays, after thinking about it for a while I can see no way that they would work.

The module is looking for resistance to flow to active the cutoff. The output wire from the box in a system with relays goes to one side of the solenoid, in this case the positive side. Once it activates the solenoid the resistance remains the same regardless of the window position. Correct?? Even if it's incorrect the system still saw too much resistance even in the highest setting just powering the relay. Am I missing something? I hope I am and with my track record I'm sure I am.

@ TreeFiddy

Let me first thank you again for all of your help. I could not have figured the relays out without you. Based on my findings the relays did very little if anything to the speed of the window. After installing the new motors I tried both with and without the relays in place. The difference was not perceivable without the use of a stopwatch. ie. 3.7 vs. 3.9. I used 14 gauge cable.

The reason I didn’t mention using the module when we discussed the relays is because at the time I was not using it. I wasn’t even aware of its existence. I put it in after completing all of the other wiring which is when I figured out it won’t work with the relays.

If I am wrong about the relays I’d love to understand them more. Even though they didn’t do anything for me I’d still like to use them seeing as they’re wiring up and in the car still. 

 

Ah I see, some interesting observations - I have been waiting a while to see if the relay mod made a difference for someone else, as much as it did for me. Sounds like our start points were different - I went from 12 sec to about 3.5 sec, whereas that's about where you started at. How much faster than that have you achieved? 3.5 sec is still not blindingly fast, I'd like a little better too.

I guess your factory electrics were in much better condition than mine to begin with. The point is not so much to put the relays in, but to run the heavier cable - actually should call this 'the fat cable mod' rather than 'the relay mod'. I used 8ga as an overkill, just what I had laying around. The relays are just a better way of keeping the current path as physically short as possible, rather than running the full motor currents all the way to the factory console switches and back again.

I wasn't aware of any module when I did this either. I am curious - does it run using the factory motor wiring? How does it do it's input switching - does it use the factory switches, or use it's own? And the motor output - internal relays or solid state?

 

Upper and lower. Used the kit from TDS. Hung the door from some straps to a ladder opened up over the door to hold it in place.

 

@ TreeFiddy

I think my major problem was the motors. My windows were around the 12 second range as well. The passenger window actually overheated during up duty so I had to manually regulate how long I held the button. They were shot for sure. I contemplated using 10 gauge for power but it was too unwieldy to use so I went a little smaller.

The module is nothing more than a box with relays and resistors in it. You simply splice into the factory wiring for the motors and the switches. It’s just sensing the resistance in the system to determine when the windows are fully up and fully down. I believe that’s why the module didn’t work with the relays in the system. Too much resistance. Window just went up an inch at a time with each push.

@ naf

Great idea on how to hang the doors. Those are tools I have. If you remember, where did you get the parts for the lower hinge? Does GM still sell the pin and roller? How about the bushings…

Thanks for the help.

 

He used the kit from TDS. That's the same kit I used. They have one kit that has greasable bushings and one that doesn't. Your choice. I went with the greasable pair. Here are the links:

http://www.top-downsolutions.com/doo...(non-greasable)

http://www.top-downsolutions.com/Bod...ody-(greasable)

This is the one I went with, it has bushings for both sides:

http://www.top-downsolutions.com/Bod...ir-kit-(deluxe)


I ended up getting this tool also. It was actually really helpful in getting the bushings in and out:

http://www.top-downsolutions.com/Bod...e-bushing-tool


It's pricey but in my opinion it is very well worth it. A lot of the rattles going over bumps went away. I used some straps and a cherry picker to hold my doors. Made life pretty easy because I could adjust the height ever so slightly with it. One word of caution: DO NOT force the new bushings into the hinges. I used a dremel with a sanding barrel to smooth out the opening enough for the bushing to slide in.

 

Thanks black

One item I don't see in any of the kits I've come across is the roller for the lower pin. Am I correct in assuming if I can find one it just slides over the shank of the pin in the TDS kit?

 

No, the roller is a different pin. Double check yours to see if it needs to be replaced or not. If so, I think you can get those in your local area. There isn't anything special about them. Mine was still in good shape so I didn't replace it.

 

Oh yeah, you're right. Two pins on the bottom. I forgot about that. I'll see what I can find.