So I've been reading lately that all the people who have installed this xfi 268 cam have been more than happy with their combos. They have been able to smoke the tires all through first and even in 2nd if they nailed the gas it still kind of broke the tires loose.

With my set up I feel like I should be easily doing the same.
I got the cam of course, afr 195 heads, and the hsr intake. I know I have fuel issues that I'm working on but its just starting pressure when I have that problem.

I can't even get my tires to spin when I launch it from a power brake...
I have 44 psi at idle, I've had a prom burned from pcmforless for the setup, I know my exhaust is probly the worst part of the set up but it can't be that bad. I thought it was doing good because in some races it hasn't done that bad I mean I raced an sti that the owner claimed dropped $5k in and I was maybe 4 cars behind by the time I hit 100 and we started at 40. But against LS engines its still a dog lol it kinda launches slow but can go from 3000 rpm to 6000 pretty easily in first second it does pretty good power and third is a dog for some reason.

I know this setup can't be as bad as it is performing for me going based off of some of these other guys lol I might be running it at the track this weekend and see what ill get but idk might be disappointed lol

Any input from anyone that has this setup or have an idea of what's my combos problem?

 

Any dyno or track numbers?

 

When a 400 with a mild HR cam and decent 180 cc heads can do 525 HP with a way-too-small carburetor, why put bigger heads on lesser cubes? And you're using a short-runner intake, when a TPI done right can support a 383 to 6200 RPM with a modest 212/218 cam. ( See my Best Builds thread for details ) This combo you've assembled should start working after 3500 RPM, but the HSR doesn't flow anywhere near what those heads can, and will be hurting you by 5000 RPM, unless you get it Extrude-Honed. Simply buying the "best" heads and the "best" cam isn't going to beat a combo that works. For a 350, TPI and Vortecs done right have done 416 HP at 5000, with 487 TQ @ 4000, 430 TQ @ 2500, and 387 HP @ 5800. Are you doing so well, with parts that should be capable of better? Obviously not. Either copy a known build, or post up EVERY detail about your entire car.

 

That combo should flat-out COOK, especially with AFR heads on it. So it goes good for a second and then just kinda "goes flat" and never gets better after that? Do I have that right?

 

Only numbers I have are from the track 2 and a half years ago probly. And when I did that I didn't know at the time but it was running 28psi fuel pressure, but I got a 14.7 at 4200 elevation. With just all the bolt ons like headers exhaust ignition easier flowing intake tube and I was told when I bought the car it had a shift kit in it since I was able to chirp the tires from first to second, I was able to run 14.7's with just that combo before I went into the cam and all that.

Well everyone says that it just pulls hard from any rpm they see at from what I've been reading. When I launch it seems like it takes a while to get to 3k rpms then it like starts pulling pretty hard. In second gear I have to have it at like 45-50 mph to get a good kick when I mash the throttle. Third gear is just a dog tho but it has always been. I know I don't have a 2200 or higher torque converter but some of the other people are running stock converters also. I'm using falken 512's also so its not like I'm using radials or anything lol

 

So you slapped a combo together, ordered a mail order tune for it from someone who just made close guesses on the tune. And your suprised it's a dog? These guesses in tune are going to be extreemely conservative as to not blow up you new motor. Guarantee your timing and fuelling are leaving alot on the table.

Btw you didn't mention what you have for exhaust. An engine can only flow as much as the biggest restriction will allow.

Also have to have the gearing and convertor to put things into the cam, intake, heads usable range. Everything has to be an engineered system. Not just the motor.

 

Yeah pretty much. But I heard pcmforless was pretty reputable about the tuning in the prom and I listed everything I had. I got my timing at 10 BTDC, fuel pressure is right at 44 psi.

As far as exhaust its a not so great 2.5" after a set of hedman shorties it goes down the stock location and y's right before the torque arm and continues 2.5" into a flowmaster muffler then 2.5" out but the pipes near the collectors are probly the worst part of it.

As far as torque converter of other people were able to spin the wheels and say they were able to keep up with ls1's

 

Well don't sweat the combo, it's pretty solid and should make great power. I would get it on the dyno and see what actually is going on. Keep with it man.

With your previous ET I'm assuming your running 3:43 gear?

 

I'd put the stock chip in it, and have it tuned locally.
Are you 100% sure the can is installed propperly? I had a guy on the dyno once that was a complete tooth off with his cam install!!!! it still ran but boy it was a complete dog!

 

Is the cam degree'd properly for that matter. That's a good point Tony. Comp is known for the occasional cam with the dowel drilled wrong.

 

That is a good question that I wouldn't really know.. I know the timing marks were lined up when we put everything together. As far as cam being degreed we didn't do that when we installed it. Is there any way to know weather or not its off with out taking everything apart? I want to see if my buddy can give me discount to run it on his shops dyno.

As far as a list of mods what I listed already. Then stock converter, stock rear end its has the 3.27 Borg warner, just some street tires, hedman shorty headers, msd cap and rotor, accel wires platinum plugs, smog pump and all emissions are gone, stock tranny, anything else I left out that could help to diagnosing this problem?

 

Oh well 3.27 with stock stall might be an issue too. Since u said it runs great after 3k, well id said get a 3k stall if u really like your gear.

 

Where'd that sticky go? I was looking for it a while back and couldn't find it.

 

Definitely sounds low on power from your description. I assume you set the 10* initial with the ECM timing wire disconnected?? It's important to do that when setting base timing or it will be WAY retarded under normal operating conditions.

PCMForLess..... I've had mixed results. Most are good, but some are so bad the engine won't barely run.

I agree you might want to throw the stock chip back in it just as a diagnostic procedure (after making sure the base timing is set correctly). It won't be optimal with the heads, cam and intake upgrades, but the MAF sensor on those earlier TPIs makes up for a multitude of minor tuning sins in the chip (much more forgiving of changes to the engine's basic breathing characteristics than later speed/density setups). If it suddenly runs a bunch better, well then you know the mail-order chip is probably way out to lunch.

HOWEVER.... MAF-equipped cars have a downside when it comes to tuning. They do NOT like to be lied to about what size injectors they have. Stock was 22# on an original L98 TPI. So if your new setup uses significantly larger injectors than that, the stock chip won't run it very well. A small upgrade to 24s (vs. stock 22s) is not a big deal, but if you got a big honkin' set of 30s in there that's more than the ECM can compensate for with a stock chip in it, so I would recommend against doing the "stock chip diagnostic" if that's the case.

 

That combo should roll pretty hard. Double check the markings on your balancer, manually...The outter ring may have slipped. If that checks out, see what your timing is with the wire connected and the engine revved up or power braking it. Do you have a wideband on it? If not, get one! Thats not a slapped together combo, its flat out proven!

 

Forget what "other guys" say...get a converter in there and a real tune.
You can only do so much off mail order. Basically get the car running not too much more. Datalogging and staying on top of it for corrections is next can take some time. Lotsa power to be gained there just have to be patient and find it.

 

Ok so I called a few places around and they want to charge 20 bucks a pull on the dyno to just see torque and horsepower. I might be going there to see my curves.

As far as setting the timing yes that's where my timing is with the ESC disconnected.

No I do not have a wideband on it. I been wanted to though. As far as checking the degree of the cam do I have to the timing cover again to do that? And to check for the outer ring on the balancer how do I do that?

I have also been wanting to do the datalogging but that stuff I know very little about I would need a datalogging for noobs course lol what size of converter would this take I been wanting like 2400-2600 but idk how to really pick out a converter yet.

And the chip is gone I sold it to my buddy who had done a 350 swap in his trans am and now we live in different states.

 

X2. Tune needs done. Pcm can only get you so far on these cars. Its not like their lt1 tunes

If that was my car and i planned to go to the strip alot id go 3200-3400 stall. More street only 2600-2800 would be ok

 

This may be a proven combo, but it doesn't sound like it's quite "finished" yet in the OP's case. He says he's got fuel system problems and the exhaust leaves something to be desired.

OP, I have a feeling you have a few issues to track down, and then you'll be just as happy as everyone else running this combo. You do need to know what the engine's actually doing, a datalogger would be really good to have. No doubt the tune is a big part of why it doesn't perform. Once you have verified that the cam is installed right, spark advance is working properly, and your fuel system is up to spec, get it on a dyno and see what you have. Maybe all it will take is a few AFR corrections and a couple extra degrees of spark.

 

Well the only problem with my fuel system is that when the pump primes with the ignition on it builds up pressure and then drops immediately. After it starts tho it holds at 44 psi. Thats the fuel problem I am having. I agree I do need a data logger but I need a lap top first which I dont have. How do I make sure the cam isn't off a tooth or how to degree it right.

 

Pcm did my base tune. Idle was ok and driving was actually fine being mass air flow car but wot was a lean turd. I had to add a ton of fuel up top to get it right. I bet yours is either too lean or really fat. I did another car with old afr 190's and 280xfi. Stock arap bin ran pig rich for some reason. Took fuel out it went from 82 mph 1/8 mile trap to best of 88. Lots of power to be had. That was a low 12's car with valvefloat. With proper springs it would have been well into 12's in cold air down texas

 

So with your base tune that they did, you just went in with a data logging program and learned what was wrong then you went in and changed it your self? I have a feeling its running lean too up top. But what was the clue that it was lean on wot? Wish I knew someone with a lap top to come help me out up here lol

 

Datalog datalog datalog, doesnt anyone listen to the motor anymore? Itll tell you everything, ok go out somehwhere open and secluded, take your car get it to running temp from a dead stop just stand on it stay at wot for like a 1/4 mile let off throttle put trans into neutral and shut engine off. Stop pull spark plugs out and tell us what color they look like, white gray black.

 

Yep had wideband o2 on it and datalogged. Saw 16-17 air fuel as i went wot. Ridiculous lean. You can do the same with the stock narrow band. Look at the milivolts. If its over 930 its pretty rich. If under 850 its lean. Shoot for 900 as a start but problem is not all cars run the same. For whatever reason i seen several cars whose wot readings on narrow band did not match the wide band o2 or plug readings so i worked on the wideband alone. So datalog equipt and wideband are your friends

 

So the picture with the door panel in the background was before I went out and did the test and the one with the car in the background is after I got on it couldnt really tell a difference. The after picture dimmed the pic a little bit so the threads look oil but its just the lighting lol

And orr89rocz which program do you use for your datalogging? I need to get one obviously I don't even know where to start tho lol

 

Tunerpro rt. can download online just google it. Then need aldl cable from moates.net about 80 bucks