Hey folks,

So I have swapped out my stock rocker arms for a set of Comp Cams 1.6 Pro Magnums, and I now have a ticking noise that I can't find..

To be honest it sounds like the ticking is coming from the center of the motor. I used a wrench as a stethoscope and touched every part of the valve covers and there is no difference in the sound no matter where I touch it. The RPMs and the actual tone of the noise itself is nothing like what I hear from the valve covers.

http://s58.beta.photobucket.com/user..._0611.mp4.html

I followed the instructions provided by Comp Cams to adjust my valve lash... Intake valve per cylinder, then exhaust valve per cylinder, right over a 1/4 of a turn, then lock the set screw.. I did it right didn't I??

The motor only has 50k on it, I've been told that I would have no problems putting these 1.6 rocker arms on my stock engine.. My biggest concern right now is that SOMETHING in the motor is now in a bind and is damaging it. There was no tick with the stock rocker arms...

I don't want my motor hurt guys, and I don't know why this noise is here now.. If I must (and as much as I don't want to) I will put the stock rocker arms back on...

Any ideas guys?

 

this is the method i use,...

one cylinder at a time,...


rotate the motor til the exhaust pushrod starts to move up, adjust the intake to zero lash, then a 1/2 turn.

rotate engine til intake pushrod goes all the way up, then nearly all the way down, set exhaust valve to zero, then a 1/2 turn.

i know what your saying about a geardrive. its hard to hear/adjust the rockers when its running,...and the people always say, things like,...hey, sounds like your low on power steering fluid! lol.

try the suggestion above. ive NEVER had to re-adjust rockers on a hydraulic application following these directions.

 

Video is now up...

Was a 1/4 of a turn not enough? Technically I went 3/8 of a turn lol, just a bit past 1/4 but not 1/2 a turn...

Is there any real chance that the 1.6 ratio rockers have caused some kind of clearance/bind problems with my stock pushrods/heads?

I apologize for the newbish questions, I'm just skittish about the health of my motor at the moment...

 

Did you confirm that there's enough clearance for the push rods as the exit through head?

 

No, I simply swapped out the stock rocker arms for the new ones...

From what I've read/been told I assumed that there wouldn't be any issues...

I'm starting to think i've been told wrong..

 

Did you make sure you have the narrow rockers for the centerbolt valve covers? They may be rubbing. And you should have turned them 1/2 turn past 0 lash. There is enough valve spring for 1.6 rockers. I can't see the video, so i'm just advising. I would relash them to 1/2.

 

New or used Lifters ??

New lifters are to be set BY THE MANUFACTURER RECOMMENDATIONS ! Shop manual calls for 1 full turn after installing new rockers over used lifters. By most peoples standards this is a bit much. I'm apt to believe that your 1/4 turn is way to little.


I just set these on my 85.




Once I found zero lash I set the 1/2" ratchet parallel with the head and give it 1/4 turn,..... ratchet to parallel, then another 1/4 turn, ratchet to parallel and 1 more 1/4 turn. In some cases I'll even go another 1/8. I prefer this "stepped" approach 'cause it's always worked for me. I've installed RR's on at least a dozen engines and have never had to re-set them.

No.

The rockers need to be set in a specific order. The generic version of instructions (without the motor running) goes like this: there are several methods; use what works best for you !

http://berlinetta.info/help/SBCLValveLashAdjustment.jpg

 

Completely stock internals (50k) except for the rocker arms I've put on..

I adjusted them according to the instructions that came with the rocker arms..

Adjust every intake valve per cylinder by turning the motor over till the exhaust pushrod begins to move up, then tighten down the intake rocker.

Adjust every exhaust valve per cylinder by turning the motor over until the intake pushrod moves up to its highest point, travel past maximum lift until it's about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way down, then tighten down exhaust rocker..

I adjusted every intake valve per cylinder first, then went back and adjusted the exhaust valve for every cylinder, going in the 1,3,5,7,2,4,6,8 sequence.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...TSc_QPL1ZbjO3A

I've never adjusted rocker arms any other way so I'm not exactly familiar how to do it other than this..

Can anything bad come from the Comp Cam method??

Also: John, Does 3/4 of a turn sound like a good adjustment to go with?

 

Did you also check that the extra 0.030" or so lift will not result in retainer to guide boss interference, or sprng bind? What heads, cam do you have?

As for adjustment, I've used anything from 1/8 turn to 1 turn, it's all good. Just affects how far the little lifter piston ends up down it's bore, not critical.

 

Take a look at the installation instructions that came with your rocker arms. The instructions are also available on Comp Cam's web site. At the bottom of Page 1 there's a boxed paragraph titled, "Warning: Always Check the Following Before Operation!"

Bullet points that follow:

• Old pushrods should not be used.
• Immediately upon startup rocker arms must have adequate oil supply.
• Check pushrod to cylinder head slot clearance.
• Check rocker arm to valve spring retainer clearance.
• Check for valve spring coil bind. If this occurs, the correct spring must be installed.
• Be sure to check for proper rocker geometry.

Go back and re-trace your steps and you should find your problem.

 

I read your steps a couple times and it seems like you made all of your adjustments with the timing marker in the same place. Did you check the timing mark to see if it was @ 0 ( #1 firing position ) when you started ? IMO you should set the motor in the #1 firing position, then follow the pic I posted and adjust all the YELLOW Intake and Exhaust valves. Then rotate the motor to the # 6 position and adjust the BLUE Intake and Exhaust valves. I also believe that 3/4 of a turn on used lifters is a very safe adjustment. I'd also do it in 1/4 turn steps rather than just a full 3/4 turn of the ratchet.

Sure; you spend extra time/$$ replacing pushrods and setting the rockers at each valve after carefully measuring lift each time, a waste of effort and resources IMO. ( turning the engine by hand till each valve it @ it's highest lift while the belts are on and the plugs are all in can be a PITA! ) Your motors only got 50K and all other parts are stock. You don't have new heads, and aftermarket cam, new lifters, ect.... original pushrods and lifters should be perfectly fine.

Since your first attempt was performed using the rocker specified steps and your not happy with the results, try using the factory specified steps this time. The steps above were taken from the factory shop manual and have never failed me. Google in great; but the factory shop manual is the SBC bible !

 

No, I technically didn't check for anything, just swapped out old rocker arms for new.. I'm running the stock cam, and stock heads.

 

Stock lifters require 1 full turn IIRC. MAKE DAMN SURE YOU VERIFY THIS YOURSELF through further research. I have comp factory replacement roller lifters in my car, and they took 1 turn, per the comp cams rep I talked to.

This is how mine sounded at first (brand new engine took a while for everything to wear in). Now its much quieter, but still quite noisy compared to stock. My comp lifters also seemed to bleed down very quickly, and that caused some excess noise at idle. Switching to Rotella T6 5w-40 helped that a lot.

 

just pull a valvecover and start the motor.

back one rocker off at a time.

when it starts CLACKIN , make your adjustment. a half turn or so is perfect.

its really that easy.

 

Good tips above
Whenever you increase the ramp rate you may get some valvetrain noise nature of the beast. My solid roller sounds like its going to fall apart sometimes.

 

I'm probably totally wrong on this... But I always thought that adjustment method wasn't for roller cams? Only for flat tappet?



I honestly kind of like the extra noisiness that comes with roller rockers, the sound of HP (however little it may be) being made

I also ran across this chart here while I was reading up on this, is this method correct?
It came from this site: http://www.centuryperformance.com/va...procedure.html

Intake Valve Adjustment: ENGINE OFF!

• with #1 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #6 Intake Valve
• with #8 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #5 Intake Valve
• with #4 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #7 Intake Valve
• with #3 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #2 Intake Valve
• with #6 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #1 Intake Valve
• with #5 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #8 Intake Valve
• with #7 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #4 Intake Valve
• with #2 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #3 Intake Valve

Exhaust Valve Adjustment: ENGINE OFF!

You will notice that this is the same procedure and sequence as the intake valves listed above. Only now you are adjusting ONLY the exhaust valves the same way.

• with #1 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #6 Exhaust Valve
• with #8 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #5 Exhaust Valve
• with #4 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #7 Exhaust Valve
• with #3 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #2 Exhaust Valve
• with #6 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #1 Exhaust Valve
• with #5 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #8 Exhaust Valve
• with #7 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #4 Exhaust Valve
• with #2 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #3 Exhaust Valve

And finally just to clarify... If a valve is at full lift, that means the pushrod for that valve is at it's highest point correct? (I'm pretty darn sure that's right... what I've always understood before)

 

UPDATE:

Ok.. So after letting the car sit for 2 days and starting it up just a minute ago to run to the store, I noticed that the noise is much, much quieter than before...

The sewing machine noise is still there yes, but just not as loud... This is better but I still need to go back and re-adjust them... Quiet sewing machine is better than loud sewing machine yes, but I'd rather just have the hum of the roller rockers doing their thing

If it helps... I found a video that sounds pretty much dead on as to what mine sounds like.. I know it's an LSX engine.. BUT the sound is the same...

 

I'm not sure where you're at with your valve train noise however I noticed that you have center bolt valve covers. While this may have been touched on in previous posts, the Pro Magnum rocker arms will make contact with the support inside the cover. This is a certainty and guaranteed to be an problem. (This is why they also make a narrow body lifter for this application). I've been through this (and am actually going through it again with new heads). I had to use a die grinder and remove material from the support in order to provide clearence.
The video sounds like it may more than that (perhaps review your lash procedure as has been suggested) however the valve cover issue still exists. I'm surprised that you actually got them to fit without a struggle.
Further to that, the aftermarket valver covers I had been using have contact between the oil baffle inside the cover and the adjacent rocker arm. I've since changed back to the OEM covers however there is still some contact that can be heard.
Video available on request.

 

A video would be awesome.

It's funny you mention the valve cover supports, when I first test fitted the covers after installation the supports throughout wouldn't fit between the pairs of rocker arms, so i removed them.

The only thing left inside the covers are the baffles that the breather resides in on each cover.. The stock baffles are definitely wider than the baffles in the other set of aftermarket chrome valve covers I had in the past, and I didn't have any contact with those.. I also had to cut out the supports in those too. It makes me wonder if I went back and squeezed the baffles in the stock set I'm using now to make them narrower if that would help out. I wiggled the covers around before installing to make sure they weren't rubbing the rockers, and there was definitely some play room considering how easy the covers went on..

It makes me wonder though, since the rocker arms weren't moving when I did this, is there a chance that there can be any side to side motion when the rockers are moving?

I can't feel any rockers hitting the covers (this would be super obvious i would think), and there's no difference in sound when I run a stethoscope over the covers either.. It's just that sewing machine noise that can be heard equally around the whole motor.

 

The "sewing machine" sound is the full roller rocker doing it's thing.
The contact with the oil baffle is different from that of a lifter that needs adjustment. You can hear a small lifter noise along with the clatter from the rockers hitting the baffles. On the aftermarket (Proform) covers the contact is enough to move the covers around and mess with the gasket seal. It's difficult to get them snug and keep them there without modifications.
For the record, these are Comp short travel retro-fit lifters (1.6) and about a .570" lift. Also guide plates with clearence at the pushrod slot in the RHS heads.

http://s1123.photobucket.com/albums/...t=MVI_5951.mp4

 

Thanks for the video.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the sound I'm hearing in your video is darn near the same, if not the same noise I'm hearing in mine??

I do hear the rockers tapping when you get close to the driver side cover, but when you back up it sounds really similar..

I know your car is idling faster in the video compared to mine.. What do you think?

In the end I'm going to go back and re-adjust it all, only this time tightening down 3/4 of a turn instead of just a 1/4 of a turn after zero lash, I am also going to adjust according to the chart I posted above... I'm almost 100% sure I didn't adjust in the right order.. I went 1,3,5,7,2,4,6,8.. I adjusted the intake valve per cylinder then moved to the next cylinder till all 8 intakes were done, then went back to #1 and started the cycle over, this time adjusting the exhaust valve.

I can definitely live with more rocker noise, just as long as it's all working like it's supposed to.

 

It was up slightly on the fast idle cam, about 1100 rpm. It typically idles in the 800 rpm range.
Given that you know there's interference with the supports from previous experiences (although you've corrected that I believe) it seems to me a logical idea to look for contact with the baffles too. As I mentioned, I had problems in both areas so it stands to reason it may be the same for you. It certainly doesn't take much to check it out. On my Proform covers, the contact with the baffle was obvious with witness marks on both sides. Left and right side too.
(Something I'll through out here is that there IS a left and right cover. They're not supposed to swap side to side but stranger things have happened.)

 

I made sure to keep the oil fill cap on the driver side like it was before I took them off to keep things straight.

When I go back to re-adjust I'll look for marks on the baffles to see if there's rubbing.

I went back and edited my last post with how I went about adjusting each rocker arm, any thoughts on that? I feel really dumb after reading up on other ways to do this and finding out I didn't come anywhere near close to doing it right

 

3/4 of a turn past zero lash is fine for stock lifters and cam. My Comp 15853 lifters actually call for "zero to 1/4 turn" past zero lash or the point where the slack is taken up in the valve train. But that's hardly an OEM part.
The Comp website has an excellent paper on valve lash procedure. If you have it right, all the valves can be adjusted in just two turns of the crank.
There are almost as many ways to run the valves as there are people giving advice on how to do it. They're probably all equally effective, it's just a matter of what you prefer (provided of course that you trust the source)
http://www.compcams.com/Instructions.../COMP4-116.pdf

 

After going back and readjusting everything the proper way, my car no longer sounds like a sewing machine!

This time around I completely finished with one cylinder before moving to the next, where as last time I only adjusted the intake valve before moving to the next cylinder, then came back around and adjusted the exhaust valve per cylinder.

I also tightened everything 3/4 of a turn plus less than an 1/8 of another turn with the set screw already locked as to "wedge" it in place. Last time I only tightened a 1/4 of a turn, set the screw and was done.

As a side note the car seems to be running better after the current adjustment compared to the last one.

Thank you all for helping me figure this one out, lots of great info and the courtesy to help a fellow car guy out.

 

Well done.

 

quisterio

could you summarize what you did again? There were a lot of suggestions I'm not clear what you would have done from the beginning now that you know thx.

 

You are kidding right?

 

If I ever need to go back and re-do it:

Going in the order of cylinder #1,3,5,7,2,4,6,8,

Adjust the intake valve, then the exhaust valve per cylinder before moving to the next one.

When tightening the rockers down, I tightened them down 3/4 of a turn, PLUS another 1/8 of a turn with the set screw already locked as to wedge it into place.

If you'd like to know anything else just ask.

 

Seems you do the 3/4 plus the 1/8 after zero lash. Zero lash is when there is no play pushrod to rocker on the base circle for that valve. Alternately zero lash during running is when redneckjoe says "when the clackin stops". Was the engine running?

 

No, engine was cold.

 

great thanks.