I have a set of cast iron heads that from what I'm told are the iron version of the aluminum heads off l98 vettes. I'm thinking about getting larger valves and porting the runners. I'm building a nitrous motor on a budget and have been stuck on what I should do about heads. I would love to get a set of AFRs or even vortecs but currently don't have the funds to do so. From what I've read that under the vortec heads the best budget head to use is the aluminum vette heads with 2.02 or larger valves. What are your thoughts on doing the same but using the cast iron version. Can these heads be decent with the right amount of work? Also what is the max lift these heads will allow. I won't be running a monster cam, as it isn't needed on a nitrous motor but it will have larger exhaust lobes. Has anyone used these heads in a high performance set up?

 

Step 1. Find casting number on heads
Step 2. Post casting number here
Step 3. Save money for good heads while being disappointed.

 

I have already researched the casting number but I will post it and see what you guys have to say.

 

14101083

 

083 are standard L98 ( NON vette) heads.

You can port them and add bigger valves, but by the time you buy the valves and the machine work cost you are getting close to vortec prices.

I got a deal on mine, some other bloke paid for the valves and machine work, I got the stuff very cheap. My car is also being built as a daily driver, not a drag car.

Porting is not as simple as grinding the ports bigger.

Just pony up $600 or so for some out of the box vortecs and run them.

Or just refresh the 083's and spend the rest of the money on good gaskets and bolts.

What are your goals for the car? Is it going to be a bracket racer or outlaw car?

 

More towards outlaw. Looking to get about 400 to 450 N/A and 525 to 575 on spray. My local shop quoted me 60 a head for intake side parts and labor and 50 for labor on exhaust side not including parts due to extra parts needed. I will port them myself.

 

I'm in the process of buying a house so money is super tight I wish I could just buy a set of vortecs but currently that isn't an option. Also on 083 heads can I run 1.5 roller rockers? My brother have me his summit brand rockers since he went to 1.6 rockers. I know I will need springs and such

 

You are going to need a very large cam to meet your goals. I also dont think factory vortecs or 083 heads are what you want for 450HP na


yes you can run 1.5s

 

So $220 for cutting valves, plus $150 for cheap valves, not too mention cutting for bigger springs if you plan of a real cam, plus springs,. etc.... getting close to vortec pricing. And I bet $220 does not include the neccesary multi angle valve job, that's usually around $150.

I hate to crush dreams but if money is tight a N20 powered outlaw drag car is not the best of plans.

Low budget+ n2o = broken parts

 

If it were me, I'd keep the drivetrain stock, spend money on suspension and tires, and spend a season or two learning how to cut the tree down.

Then maybe as funds allow build it faster.

It takes huge pockets to run any outlaw car. And the payouts suck.

 

To say I know you need to research this is being very nice.

You just don't have a handle on just the basics.

SCR??. Cam??. Car's wt??. T/C??. The list just goes on and on.Budget on heads??. Gear ratio??. Your not ready for that class.Bottom line!!.

 

porting them yourself? If you're asking these questions you should not even be touching your heads. Porting is a lot more involved than just removing material. If that were the case every aftermarket head would be massive and have the same outcome. There's a reason there are tons of different "sized" heads because EVERYTHING has a unique application.

Your goals are highly unrealistic; particularly with the budget and the parts you've set yourself with. Might want to address that first before messing with anything.

 

I may have over stated myself. I meant more of an outlaw style car. I don't plan on running the class for a long time. Right now all I'm trying to is get one of many steps done. I'm getting a lot of help with this from my brother who has built many of race engines I simply just wanted to know if anyone has built these heads and if so how did they turn out for you.

 

Build the suspension and rear end first. The trans isn't going to last long with the spray either.

Don't forget the roll bar and other nessecary saftey items required to pass tech.

 

IF your brother is suggesting those heads and goals,he needs to learn a ton too.
It's like starting to talk in the middle of a sentence(you don't do that) when you start in the middle of a engine build with heads and a cam and ask about the outcome.

 

He didn't suggest those heads. He suggested that I save and buy a set of AFRs rather than spend money twice. Also on the trans thing It will be running a built TH400 with a 3200 stall. Rear end will be a 9 inch once I find one for a decent price. All I need is the housing already have the rest. Also I'm in the process of tearing the floor pans out and replacing them so during this time it's getting a 8 point cage. All I was asking is, has anyone put work into these heads and if so how did they turn out. This car is no where near ready for the engine to even sit next to it let alone go in and be ran that way. I'm simply exploring my options and trying to find ways to move forward with out spending a crap ton of money right off the bat.

 

That's just what we are trying to do, give you good advice.

Nothing sucks worse then having a car in pieces for years because you can't afford thr parts

9" housing for our cars, $1000 that's as good as it gets.

 

I appreciate you're advice. Sorry I just got a little defensive there because that guy called me an idiot but whatever water under the bridge. Any ways, let me re approach this question. If I am looking to reach 400 to 450 N/A 525 to 575 sprayed. What size and style heads should i lean towards. When my brother built his 385 he used AFRs 210 cc intake heads don't remember what their actually listing was it's been ten years since he built it. He is running quite a large cam can't remember exact specs ATM. I have his build sheet at home. From what I have read with nitrous you don't need a large intake lobe because as we know nitrous is basically just super dense air so the valve doesn't have to be open as long but I'll need a large exhaust lobe to remove that after combustion. So would I be ok running something smaller than a 210cc if I ran a higher compression ratio? Would I need to run higher than a 2.02 intake valve or higher than 1.55 exhaust valve? Also I've been leaning towards going 383 with a high end cast crank and forged pistons and h beam rods. The car won't be raced every weekend or anything like that. Also I will be running a rpm air gap intake and either a 750 or 850 double pumper depends on whAt the math says.

 

Like I said before, no way would a spray a cast crank.

Eagle rates their cast crank at 500hp. Do you want to risk destroying the engine everytime you hit the bottle?

In your other thread you said you were literally scrapping pennies for this build, guess your pennies are bigger then mine!

As far as heads and cam are concerned, it really depends on how much you are going to spray and how often.

If you plan on spraying more then a 150 shot, you need to look at the entire build as a big nitrous engine, which means different cam sepcs, different ring gaps, bearings etc....

Most improtantly is budget.

$1000 for rear,
$1500 for trans not too mention custom crossmember and driveshaft required for the th400.

Figure at least $1000 for rotating assembly plus machine work costs, such as balancing.

At least $1000 for any name brand aluminum heads.

Cam, you going solid roller? another $600+

And we haven't even added up ths little things, heads studs $150, main studs, $100, gaskets......

Ignition to light the N20, $500

Fuel system to keep up with the N20........ yadda yadda yadda

 

My brief typing is due to carpal tunnel surgery on my right hand two days ago.

It is more likely a 383 will get you closer to your goal.Well anyways over 400hp.Cam selection is dependent on SCR.Most power adder cams don't have a long duration.You want to trap as much of the A/F as you can so long overlap isn't in the best interest.Cam companies do grind nitrous cams for that purpose.

Aluminum heads will allow up to a 10.5 SCR on pump gas.For a 383 a intake runner from 200cc to 205 is about right.202 stainless steel valves would be fine.Just remember the bigger intake runner you go with,the power curve moves up in the rpm range and the advantage of the 383's is low end torque.So you want to choose which one carefully.

The next thing I about to say will sound like a contradiction,but it is really a showing of trade-offs.On one hand I am saying you don't want a lot of overlap for nitrous,but on the other hand for pump gas you don't want to go higher than 8.5 DCR for pump gas.And both of those things are true.

I'm going to have to take a break here...............to be continued.......

 

Thank you very much this has been extremely helpful and I hope you're hand heals quick.

 

State your budget and we can help you determine the correct way to spend your money so you don't do things twice and waste money.

 

Ok currently I am scraping pennies. Also I've switched gears a bit. I don't really want to go over a 125 shot as of now. This build is going to take me at least the next three years to fund and build. I have only just begun. I already have the trans but you are correct about everything else and my pennies are probably fewer than yours haha. I'm hoping to get into the Ford plant by me which will double my funds. I know I know a GM guy working for ford not cool but unfortunately there isn't a GM plant near me. But your right I do need to rethink my build from a funds point of view but with my time line most of my plans are do able if I budget right and find all the right money savers so that I can spend more on what needs money spent on. I would love to go forged and will if I do decide to go 383. But I really am thankful that all of you have enlightened me. I will now go rob a bank and have no budget lol.

 

A few things I've seen in one of your posts above that I should comment on:
1. There is no such thing as a "high end cast crank". Any aftermarket cast crank you buy will be a downgrade from the GM cast crank you currently own. Either stick with the stock crank or go forged aftermarket.
2. A 125 shot as you're talking about is a baby shot of nitrous. Forget anything about adjusting valve sizes and cam events for nitrous. Optimize EVERYTHING for NA operation. You will need all the help you can get to reach your NA hp target. Any compromises you make to NA hp in the hopes of increasing the total output will be futile. Trust me on this one; I've seen so many people make this mistake with little nitrous shots (I'm talking 200 or less on 350-396 ci motors). They read too much nitrous stuff written either by people running huge loads of spray or by people who just love to post stuff on the internet and don't realize that you need to concentrate on the factors that make 75% of your power rather than on what makes 25% of your power.
I run a setup in my Impala 350 motor optimized for 1/4 mile NA operation, 2.00/1.55 valves, 228/234/108 .617" HR cam, and the 100 hp NX jets take the hp from 540 NA to 660 on spray.
Your comment that the build will take 3 years is a factor that can only work in your favor. I say that with no disrespect; you can learn a lot between now and when you need to start buying parts.

 

I do agree about building towards a N/A engine and to a certain degree stand corrected.Thing is nitrous is addictive and you want to have your build in line with that.Well addictive until the costs of refills catches up with you and you realize how much your spending at that point.It is apart of the logic that I prefer to build a N/A engine only that when done is bought and paid for without having to do refills to get to a goal.Nitrous is the single hardest power adder on a engine.So you want to build in the forged bottom end.Competition Products has the Howards forged stroker is what I suggest.

 

That's debatable and a common comment from people that don't fully understand how to tune a nitrous setup and the safeguards that are required. In the hands of most people, yes you're correct.
I've done 150 hp setups for people on stock engines, and the nitrous has not hurt a single one. You know for yourself the carnage that typically happens when your average hot rodder attempts to bump up his hp that much with naturally aspirated means.
I'm not partial to nitrous at all; to me it's just an occasional fling. The ridiculous price escalation of it over the past 5-10 year and the hassle of filling bottles makes racing with it a royal PITA. That's another reason I recommended to Bottlefed to build it for NA; after a few glory runs just to post a number on the spray, he'll probably get over it and have most of his fun with NA power.

 

Love the input guys. You have really opened my eyes and made me take a step back and really think this through. I also agree that I should build for N/A but have future laughing gas in mind. Also the only reason I've been thinking of keeping cast is because my brother had such good luck with his in a 350 he had. It started as a nitrous motor then became a blower motor then back to N/A. He never had a single issue using nitrous or using the blower with his stock cast crank. Everyone said he was crazy but it never failed him.

 

But seriously you guys have been great and I thank you this most definitely made me rethink somethings

 

We using it very conservatively(2 seconds in a 4.56 1/8 pass)used a bottle every 3 runs.Sure more than 150 shot,but still.

Really people should know to use a secondary fuel source on the car during using nitrous where depending on the N/A build should be either 110 or 114 octane race gas.When you combine both costs together is where it gets real expensive.

What isn't brought up as much as it should be and is off topic,but needs to be said,is we are so sold on the idea that anyone can walk up and drive any car.That simply isn't the facts or truth.For the safety of the diver and others next to them,drivers need to make baby steps when going faster with plenty of seat time in each step.A very close friend of mine raced RED for 20 yrs.He upgraded to a Alter with the last engine out of his last RED.It hit so damm hard,he had to put in extra padding on the cage because he was hitting his helmet on the cage almost passing out.He was saying that he felt he make a mistake making the move he did because he felt he was over his head and we agree with him.That was before the front strut broke in the lights and totaled the car putting him on a cane for the rest of his life.True enough the front end failure was the cause of the crash.But still people need to go slow in their upgrades and be totally honest with themselves when it come to being faster than they could ever handle.

Not to bag this O/P,but I do often want to ask if someone asking about a 500 hp.If they have ever driven one before??. For that matter a 400hp car??.

When I was in my teens I helped a much younger at the time friend of mine build a 57.When he killed himself in it,his father blamed me because I helped build the car.Some of that stuck with me to this very day and at times I do hold back some.

Again sorry guys for the off topic post.It does loosely fit in here where he should build a bad Bass N/A engine first and get used to that.If at that stage he finds it is too much,sell it.If not slowly get into nitrous.

 

Agreed. Got to crawl before you walk let alone run. I'm sorry about you're friend. I really may need to start off with a little lower expectations. I have personally never driven a third gen. So I don't know exactly how they act and no two cars are the same. I've driven a built lt1 and a nice built ls2 gto. I've been bitten by torque and a bad suspension got really luck on both occasions. Both we being 17 and 19 yrs old and thinking I was Earnhardt Sr. The second time I almost broke my neck because I wasn't wearing a seat belt. Needless to say I have a greater respect for power and skill level now. Thank you for your input and I will take all this into account when making my choices

 

Well why don't you set the foundation for future plans??.A 383 is a good start and a ton easier to get to 400hp or over that.In the choice you need to consider if you plan will exceed what a GM block can handle or if a aftermarket block would be needed.

 

You know with a three yr build plan,you could save up to get the things you need.These builds don't have to move at the speed of the internet.

 

sometimes i forget that we might be talking to younger people with less driving experience. i mean that with no disrespect. i bought my current 3rd gen a few years ago for my sons to take to the track and have fun with as a family. they're 18, 19, and 22. they grew up driving go-carts and riding dirtbikes.
they were all excited about the camaro at first then kinda lost interest. i didnt understand that. one day they tell me, "dad i've never really driven anything like that before." i was like wtf?
well shortly after, my son hit a telephone at a cops estimated 65mph. it cracked the pole. air bags(luckily), broke the windshield. frame bent. broke radiator, etc. needless to say it got me re-thinking about putting them behind the wheel of the camaro with a little power.
i apploud your honesty. take it easy and be safe.

 

Yea I think I will go that route and build a moderate 383 then go up from there. On this engine don't expect to exceed the blocks max but depending on how the future turns out I would love to build a 1000+hp SBC but that's down the line. I have a lot of body work and other stuff that is more labor intensive so I would be spending money there so I'm gonna save for my crank and the machine work for the crank also saving for my pistons and whatever heads I go with

 

I've used these guys for panels and body parts threw the yrs.They are a off shore stuff source that are not exact,but a cut to fit.The pricing is pretty good.

http://www.rustrepair.com/PANELS/CHE...AIR-PANELS.HTM


I suggest for you not to have any machine work done until you have the rotating assembly in the machine shops hands so they can do the final bore size fit to the pistons your going to use and set the deck height.

You can window shop here:

http://www.competitionproducts.com/

Stay clear of the Eagle stuff and look for the good Howards stuff.The broom sheet is over stocks and show stuff that is being sold off.

 

Horsepower can bite you in the ***. I think the only reason I haven't wrecked my bird is because it only has an LO3 under the hood. So 170 bhp and a lil bit of luck have saved me from some sketchy situations, lol.

 

Just now "finishing" mine.. nearly 4 years later. Saved a ton of money in the process, though.. and no mistakes. I'll take that any day of the week.