Hi

Since just about four days I have a problem with my Camaro '88 TBI Code E.

It started quite suddenly when I started the car. At first it wasn't so bad. Always when I put the car in a gear (out of Park or Neutral) it starts stuttering and almost goes out (the enginge speed is going up and down). When I drove the car I didn't notice the problem at first. But the next three days it got worse and I feel a power loss when accelerating. Even in Park or Neutral it's stuttering now and when I'm driving 50km/h I can feel the power loss while driving and accelerating. When I got out of the car this evening I could smell fuel.

I have to say that the car has almost 240'000 kilometres on it. It hasn't been serviced for the last 10 years (nothing more than what was really a problem e.g. changing the brake pads/discs, exhaust parts and so on). So no change of hydraulic oil for the automatic transmission, no change of spark plugs and wires (only the distributor cap is new). So I bought the car at about 130'000 kilometres. The spark plugs are in there for 100'000 now. If they are Platin ones they would now have reached their end of life. But I'm not sure whether it's the ignition system. I've also had problems with overheating of the cooling system for about 5 years (but I guess it's the thermostat). I have oil loss that's getting worse and for more than a year the motor goes up to about 1500 revoultions a minute while in Park or Neutral position (doesn't matter if it's warm or cold). It really pulled all the time when you apply the brake. My fuel consumption has also risen from about 14 litres/100km to 16,5 litres on average.

Now I'm really afraid of going on driving my car because it might really stop when I'm on my way. Which procedure would you recommend to isolate the problem?

Thanks,
Thomas

 

Smelling fuel?
Power loss?

Probably running too rich due to come computing error.
Check all your sensors that they have not failed, and that your injectors are ohming right and have a nice spray pattern.

 

Hi

Today I drove my sister's car. And now I've just come back from looking at my car briefly. I started it with the open hood. At first it went just okay. With the car standing in Park I accelerated and then it started stuttering again, the engine speed went down to 500 ... always it almost stops but then comes on again. When I accelerated all the time, it didn't make no difference, the engine speed went down from say 2500 to 500 and then came on again. In the end it really stopped completely. I opened the airfilter housing top and startet the engine again. It immediately started to stutter again and with a hissing sound and a visible "spray" of something coming from somewhere about the center of the airfilter housing. And now it won't even start. The starter is okay but the engine won't start :-(

Seems like I really have to call my mechanic and tow the car.

I think it has to do something with the fuel injection. Because if the problem was with the spark plugs or some ignition problem, the engine should be running. Even if one spark plug doesn't work... what do you think?

Do you still think I should start by checking the sensors? What about the possibility of a problem with the vacuum system or even worse... the bearings in the engine or water in a cylinder? I just want to know how I should instruct my mechanic because finding a problem is always difficult and you should know where to start.

 

if I were you I would perform a complete tune up.bring everything ignition wise back to spec.change the oil and filter. clean out the radiator and replace the thermostadt.fresh coolant too. THEN is your check engine light on? if so what codes are showing? replace the fuel filter and air filter too. I get the feeling you aren't in the US.and there could be diffrences in your car that we may not be aware of. after doing this let us know how it goes.

 

Hi

Yes, I'm from Switzerland but actually I really don't think that there are differences. Well, it's true for the exhaust system but everything else should be the same.

So, do you really think that a complete "tune-up", as you say, is the right thing to do? I mean the car won't start and I don't know what's going on. It could be the injectors, a defective fuel pump, leakage in the vacuum system... And by the way, I put a new radiator in, just 7 months ago and replaced the fluid. The fuel and air filter have been replaced about 2 years ago.

Replacing the thermostat is also a problem. I have a crack in the intake manifold, right next to the thermostat. Last time I changed the thermostat, I was lucky to be able to torque the bolts and get this thing leakproof without completely cracking the aluminium intake manifold.

Actually the car has been running quite well the last few months. Never had any issues. The stuttering quite suddenly appeared.

I have all the ignition stuff (plugs, cables, finger) ready at my place but have been afraid of changing the plugs because my mechanic told me that with such an old car and the plugs not having been changed for 80'000 kilometers, there would be a certain chance that the plugs might break when attempting to loosen them. And, at worst, a piece of the broken plug might fall into the engine.

So, do you still think that I should blindly make a complete tune-up without trying to find the problem why my engine won't start anymore? In the end I've done everything and the problem was the fuel pump or bad injectors or whatever...

Thanks a lot,
Thomas

 

yes, do a tune up.from your post it almost certainly will help. and as for changing the plugs ,as long as you are using the correct tools for the job ,you shouldn't have a problem.as for the cracked intake .I would remove it and have it repaired/replaced.and as for reading the codes from the ECM, that is the first place to start.when it was running, was the check engine light on?

 

Oh sorry I forgot about the SES-light. No, "unfortunately" it didn't show up. But at least I could check whether a code was saved.

I can't do this by myself (intake manifold). Actually I wanted to, but later, and buy another car for the meantime because if I do it, it will take quite a long time. And it's not so cheap... only if I can find a used one from Germany maybe. Here in Switzerland the prices are extremely high. I had to pay about 70 dollars for one! wheel bearing. In Germany it's quite a bit cheaper but not as cheap as in the USA.

Well, but let's stick to the things that are really related to my actual problem. I don't have the tools for replacing the plugs and I don't have a car lift. As I've heard, one or two of the eight plugs are quite tricky to get to. Maybe I'll have to see how I can get the car to my mechanic. He's 25 kilometers away.

Is there a way to easily test the fuel pump and the injectors so that I could rule these out?

 

you should hear the fuel pump whirr for 2 seconds when you first turn the key on. as for the 2 injectors in the throttle body,often they get debris in them,fortunately you can remove and clean them easily,which wouldn't hurt at this point. and yes the spark plugs are easier to access from underneath (assuming you still have the stock exhaust manifolds) but they aren't hard . you could possibly have the crack in your intake manifold welded ,it would be less expensive

 

While yesterday the car wouldn't start anymore, another try today let the motor start again but still there is an up and down of engine speed at idle. It's really like gas is coming, gas isn't coming and so on.

I checked the sound of the fuel pump when turning the key. I can hear the sound for about 2 seconds, but I don't know, it somehow sounds a bit weird... I mean I don't pay attention to this sound all the time but it seems to me that it was a higher sound before (like a buzzing). Today the noise was more a deep humming. But then again, maybe I'm wrong about it because I can't remember so well.

Is there a way to easily test the fuel pump and the injectors? I need quite detailed instructions...

 

your best bet for accurate information will be a "factory service manual" in it you will find all manner of answers. try HELM INC. and ,really at this point you could use one.

 

Actually I have the service manual as a PDF. But first, there's so much information, it's a bit hard to find what I'm looking for and second, sometimes, for example for testing the TPS sensor, they talk about an ALDL Scanner which I don't have. And I thought that maybe there are other options...

I'll try to record my car while it's stuttering... maybe this will help.

 

first, you don't need a scanner to read codes. a bent paper clip will do nicely. although a scan tool is infinitely a better way to do it. however you can fab a scan tool using .a laptop, appropriate software, and a cable to connect the lap top to the ALDL port."moates.net has your software and maybe the ALDL cable too. this is how we do it. you can too

 

Yes, I know the paper clip trick. But isn't this only for flashing out the saved error codes? I mean, you can't really check the IAC Valve for example without a scanner.

Ok, buying the software etc. is a possibility. But at the moment I'm really not that much into spending a lot of money ;-)

 

ah, well then.its like that. most of us have spent an embarrasing amount of money to keep our cars running. "you have to pay to play"

 

I bet you have spent a lot of money... me too... about 20'000 dollars... in 11 years :-) The big part was body work (rust). I've never really had a problem with the engine. It was brakes, exhaust system, radiator... quite small stuff. But here in Switzerland we sometimes pay four times as much for the parts as in the USA :-(

I just come from another try to start my car. It won't work again. To rule the fuel pump out, isn't there the possibility to spray some fuel or so into the fuel meter assembly?

 

yes you can do that .but don't start a fire!! I know what you mean about export American parts. a friend of mine lives in japan .and he pays tremendous money for spares

 

Hm, to avoid a fire, is there another option? I've heard of starter spray or something like that. I should be able to run the engine for half a minute or so to check whether the problem is really the pump.

And another problem is getting nearer... my battery will be down very soon. Should I buy a battery charger or are there useful power boosters for a V8?

 

Another question:

If someone cranks the car and I'm watching the injectors... should I be able to see a spray of fuel all the time while cranking? I mean, if there is fuel, the engine should start. Now as it won't start, there shouldn't be any fuel coming from the injectors, so it would be quite easy to identify the fuel pump as the problem...?