kenrussell3

I know this has been addressed in the past without an answer, other than drill and tap a hole in the '69 350 to mount a starter that matches the '86 T5 12 3/4" flywheel. So, is there any new source? Maybe a mini-starter with three mounting holes that fits a 12 3/4" flywheel and older 350 offset bolt pattern?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Tired of answering this question.

Good luck.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

No. Get a Vortec block.

GD

kenrussell3

If you don't have anything new to add, then don't. I'm just asking if anything has changed out there. I actually have a 1969 Corvette 350 casting that already has all three bolt holes; so, I'm ok. But there are far more people out there that could benefit from any new information.

kenrussell3

Thank you, but even though "no" is your best answer, it doesn't add anything. Suggesting that I go buy another engine is not an answer to the question. I probably should have asked my question a little differently. For example, "If anyone knows of a starter that fits my need, without drilling and tapping my block, please let me know. If not, don't waste your time and mine by answering". But I'm only a "junior newby", so I didn't know my question was so stupid. -/:-)

8t2 z-chev

never done it myself,but looks like drilling and tapping the extra hole would be very easy.If you don.t want to do that,possible a suitable mini starter is avalible

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Funny how every 010 block somebody comes up with is from a "69 Corvette". That must have been that year they made about a million of em and they had that real bad body rust problem, and everybody threw away the cars, yanked the motors and tore em all down, and sold the blocks dirt cheeeep.

Anyway, the only way a starter for 12,8" flywheel will work on that block, is if an additional hole is drilled in the block. The reason is, a bolt bolted into the inboard hole in the block, would go RIGHT DIRECTLY THROUGH THE MIDDLE of the starter drive. It's not a question of finding a different starter; it's that the BOLT is incompatible.

Advanced Search this site for mu userID and that capitalized phrase above, and you'll find a picture of a block (73 or so 400) with the hole that's needed.

kenrussell3

You are right. Even though my 350 block already has a third starter bolt hole in line with the outer bolt hole, that hole is only 2 3/4" from the outside starter bolt hole. The spread on the starter from the 305 is 3 1/4" from the outside starter bolt hole (to clear the starter drive, as you indicated). So, there is no way any 305 starter would bolt up to ANY 350, without drilling and tapping that additional hole (in my case, a forth hole). Someone might luck out and find a block, where that hole has already been drilled and tapped correctly.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

350 blocks starting in about 78 or so, when the smaller flywheel was introduced, often have the correct hole. By around 82 or 83 they all had it.

I will NEVER build a motor out of a 70s block again, except for 400 blocks or "matching numbers" type situations. Those old castings were SO CRAPPY in every way, every build is just another spin of the chamber as to whether any given block has any of the manufactured-in defects so common in those years. Back when I was building lots of them, in the late 70s through mid 90s, I cannot begin to tell you how many horror stories I endured, especially when people would bring me blocks they had bought for too cheeeeeeeep without realizing that the old adage that "you get AT BEST what you pay for" applies to blocks the same as anything else... if you buy something at below the market price, you're PROBABLY going to get below market value, if it's an arm's-length transaction (no brother-in-law connections or whatever).

Since "Corvette" is UTTERLY MEANINGLESS when applied to a block, I'd be inclined to go along with the recommendation to ditch that old garbage and go get a 96-2000 one to replace it. No way to know what headaches you're going to encounter building that old crap. The starter issue is just your first taste.

kenrussell3

So far, you are right. I got this engine, supposedly complete with intake, carb, exhaust manifolds, starter, everything. So far I have verified the block casting to be an actual 1969 Corvette 350/300hp, but, as you say, that does not mean that everything inside is original or even good. The exhaust manifolds are mismatched from a junk yard. Luckily I bought headers anyway. The intake and Quadrajet carb are from a 1979, but the carb only matches up with two of the four bolt holes on the intake. I replaced the 14" flex-plate with a 12 3/4" flywheel for a two-piece main seal, necessitating a new starter, as well.

kenrussell3

From my research, it seems they made a little over 38,000 1969 Corvettes.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I agree. Ditch that garbage and get a Vortec block. They were miles ahead of even a "69 Corvette" block. I got a whole 99 Vortec truck pull-out for $200. These are already 255 HP in stock form. And they are roller blocks. Change the cam and they will blow the "69 Corvette" engine right off the road. How can you even justify spending the time to mess with that many unknowns. It's old, it's got junkyard parts hanging off it - it's probably clapped inside. Sell it to some other gullible yokel on craigslist.

GD

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I don't think you understand - it's not a "305 starter" problem. The starters are the same for 305/350 on 153 tooth F cars. So a 305 starter WILL bolt to a 350 if it's the right 350 and has a 153 tooth flywheel/flexplate.

If you used a Vortec 350 block as we recommend, your 305 starter would bolt right up with a 153 tooth. Alternatively you could use the Vortec starter and a 168 tooth.

GD

kenrussell3

You are probably right. It is what it is. If it turns out to be a mistake, I can always look at it as a learning experience. I've never done this "swapping" stuff before. I've been into fast and furious imports.

kenrussell3

How could you use a 305 starter with a 14" flywheel? Somehow you have to move the starter out to match up with the flywheel. Unless you have a starter with all four bolt hole locations on the mounting plate, which allows you to choose which bolt holes to use, for either a 12 3/4" flywheel or a 14" flywheel, there doesn't appear to be a way to use the 305 original starter on a 14" flywheel Vortec. 12 3/4", yes. but not a 14".

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

It's not a "305 starter", it's a 153 tooth starter. It can be used on an one piece rear main SBC with 153 tooth flywheel. L30 305 truck Vortec engines used 168 tooth flywheels. You can use any 168 tooth, one piece rear main starter - provided you drill the holes required, etc.

There is NO SUCH THING as a "305 starter" or a "350 starter". There are 153 and 168 and some aftermarket starters have holes for both.

Your issue is that you need to use a 153 tooth starter because the T5 won't accommodate a 168 tooth flywheel. Regardless of what starter you buy, you need holes in the block in the correct location for the 153 tooth flywheel.

GD

kenrussell3

Again, you are right. I'm just using the terminology to differentiate between the 153 tooth flywheel starter on my 1986 Trans Am 305 engine and my 168 tooth flex-plate starter on my 1969 Corvette engine. I can definitely use the Trans Am starter by drilling and tapping an additional mounting hole on the 1969 Corvette block. I already have the 153 tooth flywheel for the 1969 engine. I'm going to try the cheap mini-starter and my cheap ebay headers and see how it goes.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

It's really incredible how stubbornly forum newbs cling to their misconceptions. You can call a 350 block a "Corvette" engine until you're blue in the face, it's still "just a 350". It comes across as pretentious. When it's done to excess, it becomes really annoying. Which is why you're getting muddy answers from the forum. Well, that and because you're asking a Small Block Chevy 101 question, that has been answered about a zillion times in the documented history of the internet. You could literally pull up Google, and do a search, thirty seconds later you have an infinite number of pages with discussions of the issue you're facing. All you have to do is read, but it's infinitely easier to jump on the forum, brag about your 'vette' engine, and ask a question, right?

The only time anyone ever makes a big deal about their 'Vette' engine is when they're actually in possession of some smog bucket they yanked out of a farm truck, and they're trying to turn it into beer money. Even on the off chance the game isn't bragging, or up-selling, no one here gives two ***** about Corvettes anyway. No one is impressed, and who cares if they were?

Good luck with your project, but you'd be further ahead to get a more modern block that has a better chance of working well with the car.

kenrussell3

Actually, what is annoying is having to listen to you guys complain about answering us "newby's. If you don't like it, don't answer. Just sit back in your "Third Gen" whatever the heck you want to call it, drink your beer, and be happy. Personally, I think it is a travesty to us automotive collectors, enthusiasts, and car "lovers" out here to have to listen to you guys moan and groan and sound pissed off at the rest of us, who have to bow down to your opinions just to get to the facts. After 20 hours+ of scouring your beloved forum, no one, not even you guys, have answered my questions the first time.
It's like, "Dad, what is one plus one?"
"Idiot! Haven't I told all of your older brothers the answer to that question?"
"Yes, but dad, what is one plus one? "
"Go look it up. I've already had to answer that question too many times before. Now you are annoying me with your stupid questions."
"Dad, I tried looking it up, but all I found was in a mathematical language I didn't understand."
"I found one apple plus one apple is two apples. Is that the same thing?"
"I don't give a crap about apples to apples. Oranges are better for you, anyway."
"Ok, dad. Sorry I asked."

kenrussell3

By the way, not all "SBC's" are the same, otherwise, we wouldn't have to come to you for answers in the first place. At first, I did not know what the heck a "Third Gen" or "SBC" was. Why don't you "supreme" beings call cars and engines what they are, instead of making up ridiculous vocabulary that only those "in the know" can understand. We tell you what the casting numbers tell us, so you can be sure of what have, so we can get a more precise answer. My block casting number tells me it is from a 1969 Corvette. I do know that not all "SBC's" from all "Third Gens" are the same (305's, 372's, 350's, 400's, 2-bolt mains, 4-bolt mains, large journals, different heads, different intakes, different carburetors, different flywheels, different starters, etc.). We really do rely on your expertise and knowledge about these things. We just hope you don't get tired of answering our "dumb" questions.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Then all you'd have is an idiot echo chamber like Facebook groups. Just as a general rule of courtesy and manners, it's highly advisable to not annoy those who's assistance you desire.

You need a flywheel that fits the bellhousing, and a starter that fits that flywheel, and that combo was generally not used before the 80s. You could change the bellhousing, or drill the block, but you'll still have other issues. Newer blocks (after 1987) are better all around, and pretty much bolt right in. It makes MORE SENSE to utilize a later block without all the problems your vintage block has... It fixes the minor problem you're currently up against, AND a few you probably don't even know about yet, AND it's better in nearly every way aside from being from a "69 vette".

So you can try to paddle upstream, struggle to make that 69 block work in an 86, or you could sell it, and get a 99 block. The difference is even when you've vanquished the demons of a 1969 block in an 86 car, you still have a fluid leaking, smogger lump of **** vs an engine that actually had to meet the expectations of much more modern autos. Am I making any sense? Because it seems like I'm wasting my time even trying to help you, which honestly is frustrating. It's the kind of frustration that leads to snarky replies from the old timers, if they bother to stick around and offer advise at all...

kenrussell3

I do appreciate your help. It's just fun, sometimes, to join in the teasing. I apologize, if I overstepped a bit, but you can see my point. I didn't know all this stuff, until after I spent the money. Now, if I was truly into making my Trans Am what it could be, I would do an LS swap and be done with it. I was just trying to get more horse power than what the 305 could give me, for as cheap as I could. I will not be driving this car more than maybe 1000 miles a year, at the most. I really don't care where the engine and everything else comes from. I just used the "Corvette" description in case it helped answer my questions. Frankly, I'm not into Corvettes or Third Gens. I bought a "Fourth Gen" 35th Anniversary 02 Camaro SS SLP with long tube headers, as a donor car for this 86 Trans Am. When my wife heard the 02 Camaro start up, she said let's keep the Camaro and sell the Trans Am. Now, I'm trying to get two cars running. I would rather be working on my 1993 Mazda RX7 race car. But, I've never done an American muscle car before; so, I thought this would be fun.

kenrussell3

That was the perfect answer I wish I had received months ago, when I started this crazy project. Now, I just want to start the car and sell it, running, to someone that can appreciate it. I even bought all the weather stripping, carpet, headliner, etc., and then I have to get it painted. I could even put the original 305 back in the car with a new manifold and carburetor, but that looked like it would cost more than installing this "running" Corvette 350 I picked up, before I learned all this other stuff from you guys. In hindsight, I should have just sold the Trans Am and spent my time with the family instead. But, it's still kind of cool to do a muscle car. So, that's what I'm doing.

kenrussell3

Well..the eBay mini starter arrived and fit my old 1969 “Corvette” 350 block and new 12.75” 153 tooth flywheel perfectly, without drilling any new holes. It looks great, too. I don’t yet know how good it works, but I’ll let you know. The 4 mounting holes are “universal”.

1986BANDIT

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1986BANDIT

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1986BANDIT

please send any numbers stamped on your block,im doing a documentary and need the information you have on your block.

kenrussell3

Ok. Here are all the numbers from the "Corvette" block I bought:

1. Casting Number: "3932386" (1969 model year four bolt main 350 V8), found on left rear of the block.
2. Cast Date: "K198" ("K"=November, "19"=19th, "8"=1968), found on right rear of the block.
3. Short VIN: "19S709819" ("1"=Chevrolet, "9"=1969 car assembly year, "S"=St Louis assembly plant, and "709819"=last 6 digits of original car VIN),
found on right front block pad.
4. Block Specific Code: "VI120HY" ("V"=Flint engine plant, "I"=November, "1"=January, "20"=20th, "HY"= 350cid/300hp, manual transmission, 4 bbl, CO/Corvette),
found on the right front block pad.
5. Other misc. numbers:
"17GM", found on the left rear of the block.
"3", found on the left rear of the block next to a circle of 10 dots, with a different dot in the center of the circle and one dot just to the right of the circle.

You are probably right. This engine is probably worth more to the "Corvette guy" that wants a "numbers matching" engine for his "Vette".

kenrussell3

Ok. Here are the numbers from my "Corvette" block:

1. "3932386" = casting number for 1969 model year, large journal , 4-bolt main, 350 V8 (located on left rear of block).
2. "K198" = cast date, "K"=November, "19"= 19th, "8"= 1968 (located on right rear of block).
3. "19S709819" = short VIN of original car this engine was installed in, "1"= Chevrolet, "9"= 1969 car assembly year, "S"= St. Louis assembly plant, "709819"= the last 6 digits of the
actual car assembled with this engine installed (located on the right front block pad).
4. "VI120HY"= specific engine details, "V"= Flint engine plant, "I"= November?, "1"= January?, "20"= 20th, "HY"= 350cid/300hp, manual transmission, 4bbl, CO/Corvette (located on the
right front block pad).
5. "17GM", unknown meaning? (located on the left rear of the block near the casting number).
6. "3", unknown meaning? (located on the rear of the block near a circle of dots with a different dot in the center of the circle and another dot to the right of the circle).

kenrussell3

Sorry about the reply duplication. I'm still not used to this "forum technology".

1986BANDIT

Its undoubtedly a nice vintage 350 and possibly worth a great deal (not sure of exact amount but look at the price of a 69 stingray)

Yes,it would be cool in your car but you may be better served with something more modern and suited to the vehicle, roller cams

allow much higher rpm,more lift with less drama, less friction and fuel injection is always nice, in the end its your call of course.



If you would be able to sell it and buy a warrantied crate L31 vortec,it would be a sound choice in my opinion.
Best of luck however you proceed,keep us posted.it does seem like its genuine if your research is valid(which im sure it is)