JimRockford

Hi,I have a 1990 Camaro. I just started the car and drove off and the cylinder is Locked in the on position and will not turn off, I’ve tried tapping on the key wiggling the key, nothing works. I know the cylinder will need to be replaced. I have don’e This before on second generation cars But they don’t have an airbagCan somebody explain what I have to do to to remove the airbag and get the lock cylinder off?
i have bypassed vats,can I use a non vats lock cylinder? Is so what is the part number

JimRockford

I got the car home and pulled the ignition wire to stop it. Still can’t get the cylinder to turn back to the off position. Call the local auto parts store about the cylinder they have a locksmart one for $35 with lifetime warranty. That’s all the carry. I assume I will need a lock detent tool as with the second gen cars to remove the lock detent disc right? I asked for the fool at Autozone and they said there’s no such thing? Will the one I have for my second gen cars work on third gens

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

You can use a lock cylinder for an 86, yes.

They are correct there's no such tool for a third gen. They made them much more "theft proof".

You have to dissasemble the airbag, steering wheel, clock spring (ribbon cable), and turn signal canceling mechanism to reach the lock cylinder. Once there - there is a T20 torx locking pin that retains the tumbler. Remove it and the tumbler slides out and new one can be inserted.

That said, if you have an automatic, your problem may be in the ignition switch and the cable operated by the automatic shifter. Disassembling the column to reach the tumbler will not help in this case. On my 86 the plastic cable bits in the ignition switch disintegrated and I had to disable that feature. Unfortunately that's an arguably worse job as you have to drop the column to get at the switch. It's buried on the top of the column and is actuated by a rod running down from the tumbler.....

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JimRockford

Thanks for helping General,My car is an automatic. I’m hoping that isn’t the issue as it’s a low mile car and I’ve never had trouble with the shift lock feature you mention.
I don’t have a service manual for this car. What the heck is a “clock spring”? Can you show me a photo of it?
If there is no lock the detent disc on this car how come the steering wheel still locks into position? Wouldn’t there have to be a lock detent disc? I know that on the second GEN cars you have to have a tool to push that disk down to remove the C clip so that would come off

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Oh you mean the steering wheel lock disc that you need to press down to remove the wire retainer clip. Yes that's still there. You need the depressor tool. Amazon has them....

I would highly encourage that you inspect the cable/switch situation first. I wrongly dissasembled my column on my 86 thinking the ignition tumbler was the issue and it was the crappy plastic ignition switch/cable on top of the column that was the issue. Aldo you need no special tools to work on this.

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JimRockford

The locked jammed up one time before but I was able to free it by pushing and wiggling the key,so I am thinking this is a lock cylinder issue. How would I check the other thing you mention without having to drop the column? Also what is the clock spring and will my steering wheel lock disc I used on a second gen work on the third gens?

JimRockford

According to the auto parts website there are two different lock cylinders for the 1990 Camaro, one for a manual transmission and one for an automatic transmission. What is the difference? When I look up Lock cylinders for a 1986 Camaro there is not manual vs auto listing? Well those lock cylinders fit my car

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

It's probably like the length of the VATS wire or something. I've used the 86 ignition in both my 91 Formula T5 and a 92 Camaro V6 Automatic. It will 100% work.

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JimRockford

Thanks.got a puller and the bolts are too big to go into the two holes on the steering wheel to pull it off.
What is the correct puller and what size thread bolts do I need

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Well I just used the ones that fit from my steering wheel puller kit but if I had to guess I would say they are probably M8x1.25 or 5/16x18.... but these cars are mostly metric other than the engine so it's likely the M8

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JimRockford

got it off someone had messed up the threads on the rental tool so I had to take it back and get another.
how do remove the clockspring? It says somenti g about making sure it lines up,but I don’t know how you can tell what it lines up with.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

On mine the holes were a little rusty so I had to thread in a tap to clean them out.

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Drew

iTrader: (58)

The auto/manual difference on later cars is because the manual cars have a key release button. Some wiz kid at GM figured out that instead of having two different columns to accommodate a key release button, they could just incorporate the button into the lock cylinder. On autos, the same feature is controlled by the lock out switch/cable to the auto shifter.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Interesting - there wasn't enough left of the drilled out original lock on my 91 to recognize the key release button. In any case I just used the 86 switch. Don't need that foolishness anyway - deleted along with VATS.

The clock spring is held on with a small snap ring. Just line up the wheel straight and don't turn anything as you take stuff off. Take pictures at each step and put it back the way you found it.

I hope you don't have to deal with the lock-out cable the way I did. That car (my daily) is an 86 with 170k on it. So hopefully yours is in better condition. I deleted the entire system as I swapped to a Hurst Quarter-Stick and that lockout cable function was a mess even before it broke.

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Drew

iTrader: (58)

The clock spring isn't an issue at all, as long as it's laying in a box of garbage along with all the airbag modules and sensors on the floor of the garage.



It's like a retirement community, or 'preserve' if you will, for wayward, neglected, and unloved refuse.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

And that's why everything made in the last 15 years will never be a classic. Can't do that. You'll wreck the CAN-BUS network! Car probably wouldn't even start if you pulled all that horse$hit out of a 2019.

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JimRockford

Thanks Drew and General for all your help. It did turn out to be a bad lock cylinder. I was able to fix it in about 30 minutes once I exchanged the puller and got the right bolts. I got stuck buying the $35 dollar lock that is correct for vats because they didn’t have the cheaper,older non vats style that General Disorder told me about in stock. If this wasn’t a daily driver I would have bought a delco one or borg Warner. The one I got is “locksmart” brand,which I’ve never heard of. It does have a lifetime warranty though.

everything went together well,the turn signals all work and click off as they should. The new cylinder works fine,but I have to rotate it down a little sometimes to get the key out.

JimRockford

Amen! I HATE airbags in cars and want to convert my car to the earlier non airbag steering wheel that actually looks halfway decent. Would I be able to do that or would there be a gap difference between the old wheel and airbag style column.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

CAN-BUS? Sounds more like a CAN'T-BUS. Truth. It's kinda nice that most of the systems in a thirdgen are stand-alone systems. A lot of things can fail without impacting other systems.

I almost forgot my favorite SIR pic...



Pics don't really do it justice. With modules behind the driver's side of the dash, passenger's side, sensors under the radio, under the center console, and under the hood latch, the SIR wiring is loomed through the entire dash harness like a cancer. Took an extensive effort to cut all the wrap, and weave that trash out of the harness. I should have put all the SIR components in a container and weighed it. I needed to make room for non-indigenous equipment, and I've never really cared for the airbag on the Firebird obscures half the instrument cluster, so away it goes. It's almost humorous how GM went to such great lengths to mark all the SIR equipment with more warnings than a mine field.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

If anything, with the clockspring removed, the older wheel might just rub the collar of the column. Since the lock plate sits deeper in the column, without the clock spring you lose the trim piece that sits under the steering wheel, but it doesn't seem to really be all that noticeable.

My project is still in a million pieces, so I haven't pressed the older 3-spoke wheel onto the column, since they're both still in storage. On my other 91 Firebird, the only problem was a touch of rubbing, but then that wheel came from a junkyard car and had a bit of a bend in it, which could have been part of why it rubbed. The hub assembly on non-airbag wheels is part of the crumple zones that are supposed to collapse in an accident, they bend easily when a 200lb occupant with a death grip continues moving forward as the car is stopped. And that kids is why you don't want a steering wheel, or column, from a junkyard car that had been involved in a front end collision.

JimRockford

Just took the car out for a drive again and now the left hand signal quit cancelling automatically. That’s weird because it worked perfectly after i installed the lock and put it all back together.

I drove it around for about 30 minutes and it worked everytime. What did I do wrong? Anyone here had this happen to them?

92RS-HeritageEd

iTrader: (2)

While reading this thread something came to mind. I had the same issue you just started having w/ my Chrysler 300 years ago. Took it to the dealer... Clock Spring...

Drew

iTrader: (58)

The cancel is purely mechanical. The nub on the cancel cam hits the wire arms on the turn signal switch. If it's not canceling, then the cancel cam probably isn't centered with the wheel centered, or one of the wire arms may have come out of it's clip, something along those lines.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

The steering wheel will not slide down to where the clock spring is. The 21mm nut that holds the wheel on would crush the plastic clock spring so the wheel shoulders on the column higher up. And since aftermarket wheel adapters fit both column types we can also infer that there shouldn't be any rubbing of the wheel on the column plastic otherwise a different adapter of unique dimensions would be required for each.

Very likely they just extended the column shaft and surround plastic by 1/2" to accommodate the clock spring and made up the difference by changing the concavity of the steering wheel..... or the sunk the guts deeper into the column to make room.... something along those lines.

At any rate I'm 99% sure you can swap wheels no problem.

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JimRockford

Thanks for the tip. When I installed the new lock cylinder I had to take the screws out of the turn signal switch assembly to access the cylinder screw. I had thought I liked it up correctly,but I will take it apart and check it again. All I know is that it worked fine after I put it back together. I drove it a couple places and it cancelled like it always did,then next time I took the car out it quit.

JimRockford

How would the clock spring have anything to do with your turn signals not cancelling?

92RS-HeritageEd

iTrader: (2)

I didn't ask the Chrysler Dealership back when I was told that's why *my* turn signals weren't cancelling, after paying them $99+ for diagnostic services and being told $400 for repair. It could've been a load of crap...

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Got distracted and forgot to embed the pic with the last reply...



Hmm, reading my previous reply, I see I garbled the message. Two comments got jumbled into one incoherent comment. What I was trying to get out is there wouldn't be a gap, but it might rub since sometimes it seems like the collar of the older wheels is deeper than airbag wheels. It doesn't have anything to do with the clockspring (for the airbag).

The other bit I was getting at, is that with the clockspring removed, the top of the column doesn't have a finish trim piece like earlier columns. The collar of the column loses a bit of it's finished appearance because the clockspring takes the place of the cap on earlier cars. It might look a bit funky under a close inspection, but most people will never notice.

JimRockford

Im inclined to agree.

JimRockford

Thanks for the info and the photo. I found my own personal steering wheel puller so I can take it apart again without renting one from autozone.
What would cause the spring to pop out? I hope I won’t have to replace the plastic piece

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Beats me. I'd say most likely explanation is something was reassembled wrong. But it's possible something failed. Fortunately it's a simple system, should be easy enough to see the problem once it's apart.

JimRockford

Ok,I will take it apart again tomorrow. I was extremely careful though that everything was reassembled precisely as it was before it was taken apart,and the cancel cam and lock plate were installed in the exact position they were originally. I photographed every step before taking it apart as well.

As as I said,everything did work perfectly after I finished. The signals cancelled as they should. I wasn’t until later on when it wuit