New cam install, lifter question
#1
New cam install, lifter question
Sbc Nube installing cam and lifter kit, lifters are new in box - no cleaning or soaking.
Doing what I can with inspection to ensure smooth break in.
I noted most most of the lifter plungers mover freely when depressed, however some are very stiff - to the point where I cant really be sure if they are moving.
is this typical? Are the stiff units si,ply "pumped up"
thanks for your replies.
Doing what I can with inspection to ensure smooth break in.
I noted most most of the lifter plungers mover freely when depressed, however some are very stiff - to the point where I cant really be sure if they are moving.
is this typical? Are the stiff units si,ply "pumped up"
thanks for your replies.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 12-19-2021 at 10:18 AM.
#2
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 51°N 114°W, 3500'
Posts: 17,123
Likes: 0
Received 123 Likes
on
104 Posts
Car: 87 IROC L98
Engine: 588 Alcohol BBC
Transmission: Powerglide
Axle/Gears: Ford 9"/31 spline spool/4.86
Re: New cam install, lifter question
Throw all the lifters in a container of engine oil until you are ready to use them.
Install cam with lots of assembly lube
Install lifters and reassemble engine.
When you're ready to start the engine, run it up to different rpms for about 30 minutes.
Change the oil and filter
Change the oil and filter again after about 500 miles of driving
Change oil and filter every 5000 miles after that
Install cam with lots of assembly lube
Install lifters and reassemble engine.
When you're ready to start the engine, run it up to different rpms for about 30 minutes.
Change the oil and filter
Change the oil and filter again after about 500 miles of driving
Change oil and filter every 5000 miles after that
#3
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 26,178
Received 1,705 Likes
on
1,297 Posts
Car: Yes
Engine: Usually
Transmission: Sometimes
Axle/Gears: Behind me somewhere
Re: New cam install, lifter question
Yes it is typical.
I typically soak lifters for a day or 2 in lacquer thinner and then take them out and let them drain, turning them upside-down about half the time. That'll get the assembly grease (cosmoline, whatever) out of em. Then you can soak em in oil for a day or 2 to render them somewhat consistent.
Of course, there are ANY NUMBER of web sites that caution STRICTLY against soaking lifters. Now granted, I'm an idiot and a moron and the stoooopidest blob of protoplasm to ever haphazardly splatter uncontrollably onto the surface of this miserable planet (just ask my children, they'll tell it to you straight); but somewhere in the back of my mind that is only made up of 2 brain cells that do NOTHING other than fight with each other over control of the ... immediate destination of the little head, I am forced to ask: WHAT THE HELL is going to happen to those lifters AFTER they're installed and operating? So what can POSSIBLY be so bad about THE SAME THING happening to them BEFORE installation?
Do the math. Soak em in thinner, then soak em in oil, then come back and report the results.
I typically soak lifters for a day or 2 in lacquer thinner and then take them out and let them drain, turning them upside-down about half the time. That'll get the assembly grease (cosmoline, whatever) out of em. Then you can soak em in oil for a day or 2 to render them somewhat consistent.
Of course, there are ANY NUMBER of web sites that caution STRICTLY against soaking lifters. Now granted, I'm an idiot and a moron and the stoooopidest blob of protoplasm to ever haphazardly splatter uncontrollably onto the surface of this miserable planet (just ask my children, they'll tell it to you straight); but somewhere in the back of my mind that is only made up of 2 brain cells that do NOTHING other than fight with each other over control of the ... immediate destination of the little head, I am forced to ask: WHAT THE HELL is going to happen to those lifters AFTER they're installed and operating? So what can POSSIBLY be so bad about THE SAME THING happening to them BEFORE installation?
Do the math. Soak em in thinner, then soak em in oil, then come back and report the results.
#4
Re: New cam install, lifter question
Thank you all, I'll take sage Thirdgen advice over Google knowledge any day of the week.
It's coming along. The cam gets swapped on Wednesday. Still some cleaning and maybe even some painting to be done.
It's coming along. The cam gets swapped on Wednesday. Still some cleaning and maybe even some painting to be done.
#5
Re: New cam install, lifter question
Lunati 420/443 112 lsa
Edelbrock performer 2101
Quadrajet (Canadian OE non ccc)
Accel distributor
700R4, soon to be 3.42 auburn (currently 3.27 9 bolt one legger with a worn diff).
The carb and distributor are dialed in (or they were lol). The intake has no egr provision, I plan to block off the exhaust cross over as its a summer only car. The cam is similar to edelbrock 2102, summit 1102, Melling M select.
Edelbrock performer 2101
Quadrajet (Canadian OE non ccc)
Accel distributor
700R4, soon to be 3.42 auburn (currently 3.27 9 bolt one legger with a worn diff).
The carb and distributor are dialed in (or they were lol). The intake has no egr provision, I plan to block off the exhaust cross over as its a summer only car. The cam is similar to edelbrock 2102, summit 1102, Melling M select.
#6
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 26,178
Received 1,705 Likes
on
1,297 Posts
Car: Yes
Engine: Usually
Transmission: Sometimes
Axle/Gears: Behind me somewhere
Re: New cam install, lifter question
The cam is similar to
That should be a decent enough cam as far as that goes; not gonna set the world on fire or anything, or be particularly competitive with any more modern designs, but will be easy on the valve train (given its very gentle ramps and very low lift), and give better power than stock, with very little "too much cam" issues. Will work fine in a 350 with a stock converter. Will still be OK for that if it's a 305. If it's a 350, and the compression is above about 9:1, it may cause trouble with pinging. Needs (or at least benefits from) better than stock springs; the "Z28" springs, any of the cam mfrs' entry-level 1.25" dia product like Comp 981, or LS6 springs with the Comp "adapter" retainers 787, will work fine.
The following 2 users liked this post by sofakingdom:
T.L. (12-20-2021), theraymondguy (12-21-2021)
#7
Re: New cam install, lifter question
That should be a decent enough cam as far as that goes; not gonna set the world on fire or anything, or be particularly competitive with any more modern designs, but will be easy on the valve train (given its very gentle ramps and very low lift), and give better power than stock, with very little "too much cam" issues. Will work fine in a 350 with a stock converter. Will still be OK for that if it's a 305. If it's a 350, and the compression is above about 9:1, it may cause trouble with pinging. Needs (or at least benefits from) better than stock springs; the "Z28" springs, any of the cam mfrs' entry-level 1.25" dia product like Comp 981, or LS6 springs with the Comp "adapter" retainers 787, will work fine.
At least the front axle LS conversion along with the 11.5” rear discs that come with the 3.42 axle -
I’ll be glad to have her drive it after that, but until then I want all the engine vacuum I can get so I don’t have to supplement with pucker from the passenger seat.
The Melling version has a 110 LSA and a surprisingly high price tag. RockAuto is the likely Melling parts vendor for Canadians, they’ve had very poor inventory of Melling 817 lifters over the pandemic.
I purchased the lunati cam and lifters for $166 shipped (CDN), vs Summit K1102 $198 plus shipping & brokerage fees, RockAuto Melling cam $129 + 70.72 sealed power lifters + shipping (no brokerage / thank you RockAuto!).
I got the lunati kit at that price by ordering it from Amazon Canada when the kit was unavailable, guaranteeing the old price upon delivery. Smart guy right? Until I forgot all about it and 3 months later my wife called wondering “what I bought now?!?”
It’s now a $200 cam kit from Amazon.ca
I’m going to break it in on the 100k mile springs, then make a change to the z28 (vs739r) springs. I’m using a Melling stock replacement timing set (as noted, gentle ramps, no need for the additional drag/mass of a double roller), so they’ll be a good fit.
Trending Topics
#8
Re: New cam install, lifter question
Thank you, it’s older paint but still looks good from 10’ and beyond.
As above, I’m all about that 22inHg life. I might do the 4th gen master and booster as well - if the reservoir didn’t look like something from the Jetsons I’d have already done it.
I have the next step up in that series from Lunati in my small SBF (214/224, .472/.496, 112° LSA). It's the SAME cam as the Edelbrock "Torker" cam. Where I screwed up is going with the 112° LSA, as the SBF likes a tighter LSA (like 108°).
I went with a 212/218 and 110° LSA in my 350...
I went with a 212/218 and 110° LSA in my 350...
#9
Re: New cam install, lifter question
Yes it is typical.
I typically soak lifters for a day or 2 in lacquer thinner and then take them out and let them drain, turning them upside-down about half the time. That'll get the assembly grease (cosmoline, whatever) out of em. Then you can soak em in oil for a day or 2 to render them somewhat consistent.
Of course, there are ANY NUMBER of web sites that caution STRICTLY against soaking lifters. Now granted, I'm an idiot and a moron and the stoooopidest blob of protoplasm to ever haphazardly splatter uncontrollably onto the surface of this miserable planet (just ask my children, they'll tell it to you straight); but somewhere in the back of my mind that is only made up of 2 brain cells that do NOTHING other than fight with each other over control of the ... immediate destination of the little head, I am forced to ask: WHAT THE HELL is going to happen to those lifters AFTER they're installed and operating? So what can POSSIBLY be so bad about THE SAME THING happening to them BEFORE installation?
Do the math. Soak em in thinner, then soak em in oil, then come back and report the results.
I typically soak lifters for a day or 2 in lacquer thinner and then take them out and let them drain, turning them upside-down about half the time. That'll get the assembly grease (cosmoline, whatever) out of em. Then you can soak em in oil for a day or 2 to render them somewhat consistent.
Of course, there are ANY NUMBER of web sites that caution STRICTLY against soaking lifters. Now granted, I'm an idiot and a moron and the stoooopidest blob of protoplasm to ever haphazardly splatter uncontrollably onto the surface of this miserable planet (just ask my children, they'll tell it to you straight); but somewhere in the back of my mind that is only made up of 2 brain cells that do NOTHING other than fight with each other over control of the ... immediate destination of the little head, I am forced to ask: WHAT THE HELL is going to happen to those lifters AFTER they're installed and operating? So what can POSSIBLY be so bad about THE SAME THING happening to them BEFORE installation?
Do the math. Soak em in thinner, then soak em in oil, then come back and report the results.
They confirmed it is typical - the “grease” they use in assembly is water based (EPA compliant), it does evaporate off and can leave the lifters bound up.
They recommended Seafoam to clean/rinse the lifters (epa compliance?), and then soaking in sae30 or break in oil.
Thanks again for the thoughtful (and entertaining) response. Fwiw, if you’re kids don’t believe they know more than you, what have you accomplished?
I've never used thinners before, it stinks like crazy. All right to put the thinners and lifters in a plastic container to soak?
Last edited by theraymondguy; 12-21-2021 at 05:07 PM.
The following users liked this post:
T.L. (12-21-2021)
#10
Re: New cam install, lifter question
I got my lifters from lunati with the cam. I didn't want to go with sealed power from rockauto, I was holding out for the melling lifters.
The following users liked this post:
T.L. (12-21-2021)
#11
Junior Member
Re: New cam install, lifter question
Clean them with brake cleaner then soak in oil for at least 1 hour before install. I ALLWAY'S use a pump oiler and pump oil into the side hole on the lifter until I see oil in the plunger area where the push rod end goe's. Befor you install the cam it is very important to use ALOT of assy. lube on the cam lobes. Both sides. Open ramp and close ramp and bearing surface's. Every cam failure has been due to lack of lube. That is why you run the engine at 2000 RPM for 20-30 minutes on initial (first) start. Lunati cams are a quality piece and done properly should provide a long life. Of course perform the recommended cam lash adjustment before running. You tube has proceedures . Good luck. BTW, I am 66 yrs.old and been wrenching since I was 8 yrs.old.
The following users liked this post:
Mortorq (08-13-2022)
#12
Re: New cam install, lifter question
Okay, good. I thought you got the Sealed Power. For my first cam swap, I used Melling lifters on a Comp Cam. Never had any problem with them, and they were half the price of Comp Cams (of course that was 14 years ago, so who knows what the quality is now?). Did the opposite for the second cam; a Lunati with Comp Cams lifters. That was 2016 and so far no problems. My 350 in the Firebird has a Comp Cam & lifters that I bought in 2002 and sat in their boxes until I was ready to use them (which was 2020), so they are from a time before the quality problems started, HOWEVER I am convinced they sent me their "Magnum" lifters instead of the "High Energy" lifters, because anything more than 1/8 of a turn past zero lash was hanging valves open. I should have been able to go 1 full turn without any problem, but nope. 'Tried 3/4, 1/2, some were still hanging open at 1/4 turn. And no, I wasn't going past zero lash before adding preload. No "spinning the pushrod" and waiting for resistance. Only up & down movement until the movement just stopped. Has to be short-travel plunger lifters. 1/8 seemed to do the trick, and there is no clatter or ticking noise. It's just not something I ever would have thought to check before installing lifters...
I’ve had heads off of sbc previously, even iron dukes (industrial versions not auto) but this is my first effort with lifters / cam so I’m likely to make mistakes if I’m not told otherwise!
Soup’s done!
there is a notable yellow tinge to the thinner. Time to dry them out.
#14
Supreme Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alberta (formerly Ontario)
Posts: 9,231
Received 650 Likes
on
550 Posts
Re: New cam install, lifter question
For the record, like the SBC, the LSA would revolve around the CID and the cylinder heads used.
As a rule of thumb, smaller displacements with a given head can use a wider LSA than larger displacements.
Improve the heads (such as going to a 2.02 intake from a 1.94) for a given displacement and the LSA can be broadened as well.
The critical value though is overlap.
As a rule of thumb, smaller displacements with a given head can use a wider LSA than larger displacements.
Improve the heads (such as going to a 2.02 intake from a 1.94) for a given displacement and the LSA can be broadened as well.
The critical value though is overlap.
#16
Re: New cam install, lifter question
Ive done top end work on industrial engines, no one cares what the finished product looks like so it takes no time to finish by comparison. Wire wheeling, cleaning, more wire wheeling, primer and paint add so much time. I’d be ashamed if I were on the clock for this one.
Nervous? To quote Ruby Sue from Christmas Vacation - “Sh@&$!!in bricks”.
There’s a whole bunch of new parts all merging together hopefully successfully in one heat cycle. I’ve done all I can, everything that isn’t lifter or cam lobe got permatex assembly lube. Lifters and lobes got every spec of lube from the supplied packet. Lunati recommends the driven br30 break in oil, I’ve got 5 fresh quarts at $75 CDN and I’ll be priming the system prior to start up.
I’ve got no choice but to run coolant in it (The Hoth rebel base is our twin city), so I’m considering leaving the burp funnel on the rad / just leaving the system open and running the (dual tpi) fans full on from start up.
There’s a whole bunch of new parts all merging together hopefully successfully in one heat cycle. I’ve done all I can, everything that isn’t lifter or cam lobe got permatex assembly lube. Lifters and lobes got every spec of lube from the supplied packet. Lunati recommends the driven br30 break in oil, I’ve got 5 fresh quarts at $75 CDN and I’ll be priming the system prior to start up.
I’ve got no choice but to run coolant in it (The Hoth rebel base is our twin city), so I’m considering leaving the burp funnel on the rad / just leaving the system open and running the (dual tpi) fans full on from start up.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 12-24-2021 at 03:59 PM.
#17
Supreme Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alberta (formerly Ontario)
Posts: 9,231
Received 650 Likes
on
550 Posts
Re: New cam install, lifter question
I think you'll find that after about 10-15 minutes of elevated RPMs for break-in that you'll have a rad that's boiling over.
One start up I had blew a rad hose about half way through. Had to shut it down and make a repair. The cam survived but I learned it doesn't take long to build a lot of engine heat.
One start up I had blew a rad hose about half way through. Had to shut it down and make a repair. The cam survived but I learned it doesn't take long to build a lot of engine heat.
The following users liked this post:
T.L. (12-26-2021)
#18
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Meriden, CT 06450
Posts: 4,034
Received 517 Likes
on
431 Posts
Car: 84 TA orig. 305 LG4 "H" E4ME
Engine: 334 SBC - stroked 305 M4ME Q-Jet
Transmission: upgraded 700R4 3200 stall
Axle/Gears: 10bolt 4.10 Posi w Lakewood TA Bars
Re: New cam install, lifter question
I think you'll find that after about 10-15 minutes of elevated RPMs for break-in that you'll have a rad that's boiling over.
One start up I had blew a rad hose about half way through. Had to shut it down and make a repair. The cam survived but I learned it doesn't take long to build a lot of engine heat.
One start up I had blew a rad hose about half way through. Had to shut it down and make a repair. The cam survived but I learned it doesn't take long to build a lot of engine heat.
The following users liked this post:
T.L. (12-26-2021)
#19
Re: New cam install, lifter question
I think you'll find that after about 10-15 minutes of elevated RPMs for break-in that you'll have a rad that's boiling over.
One start up I had blew a rad hose about half way through. Had to shut it down and make a repair. The cam survived but I learned it doesn't take long to build a lot of engine heat.
One start up I had blew a rad hose about half way through. Had to shut it down and make a repair. The cam survived but I learned it doesn't take long to build a lot of engine heat.
Some more today. Balancer, fuel pump, valve adjustment, engine oil primed.
#20
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 26,178
Received 1,705 Likes
on
1,297 Posts
Car: Yes
Engine: Usually
Transmission: Sometimes
Axle/Gears: Behind me somewhere
Re: New cam install, lifter question
Advance the timing "too much". It'll help keep the temps down during breakin. And of course, it won't be under any load then anyway, so you don't have to worry about pinging.
The following 2 users liked this post by sofakingdom:
NoEmissions84TA (12-26-2021), T.L. (12-26-2021)
#21
Re: New cam install, lifter question
I had timing at 34* all in, 3200 (the next heavier set of springs had it in at 3800), I’ve got a good reference to line up with. I’ll go with that plus a little extra.
When priming the oil system - my regular 1/2” drill interferes with the cowl, I’ve been priming with my 3/8” 90* drill, 700 max rpm. I’ve got oil at all the rockers, and fairly quickly at that - less than a minute. The right bank somewhat slower than the left. Some of the lifters “pumped up”, some did not.
Do I need to rotate the engine to get the weight of the valve spring off of the lifter to get them to “pump up”? Or is this to do with pump rpm / system pressure?
Last edited by theraymondguy; 12-27-2021 at 06:08 AM.
#22
Re: New cam install, lifter question
Tomorrow is the day. Only the accessory drive, cooling system and distributor remains.
The following 4 users liked this post by theraymondguy:
The following users liked this post:
skinny z (12-29-2021)
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post