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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
So I stripped the dizzy gear on the plastic vortec 350 distributor . Haven't yet looked at the cam gear . I hope it's ok. Cam is an Lt4 hotcam which I was running a melonized gear with as called for. The vortec dizzy moves around a lot and has a lot of play when setting it in the hole. Misalignment be to blame? What to do in this situation? Pull pan and clean out debris or will they be in the filter or could the pump sucked some of the debris and ruin my engine and pump damn man .?
I've never heard of a distributor gear being stripped, and don't know how that could happen. I've heard of them getting chewed up when running a steel camshaft with an iron distrubutor gear, or a bronze distributor gear on a cast iron camshaft.
in any cast, of your gear is chewed up, there will be metal fragments in your engine, which is NOT good. I'd look at the oil on the dipstick out in sunlight and look for glitter. I'd also cut the oil filter open and see what's in there...
I've never heard of a distributor gear being stripped, and don't know how that could happen. I've heard of them getting chewed up when running a steel camshaft with an iron distrubutor gear, or a bronze distributor gear on a cast iron camshaft.
in any cast, of your gear is chewed up, there will be metal fragments in your engine, which is NOT good. I'd look at the oil on the dipstick out in sunlight and look for glitter. I'd also cut the oil filter open and see what's in there...
I have a theory on what I might have done to cause this, maybe. If you notice in the picture I made a T into the Ramjet intake from my pcv on the drivers vc. Thing is the Ramjet intake already has a pcv. I started noticing a very light smoke a while ago and I checked the pcv on vc and it had oil in it and was sooty around the base of the vc hole gasket. So maybe vacuum was really high in the crankcase and I was sucking up oil causing me to run low and the dizzy rotor not being lubricated resulting in a chewed up gear? When I was experiencing backfires at higher rpms the chewing of the rotor began and I tried to keep the rpms as low as possible to not replicate the backfires. I ran it at least a good half hour that way before it gave out completely and I was being real easy on it, I was doing low rpms in like 5th gear when it gave out. I even checked my pressure before it cut out and it had dropped to 15 psi at idle when I usually run low 20-25 warm, but I was also running low on oil.. So for sure I have metal in there. Going to pull pan, oil pump and filter and see what's in them. What do you guys think of the two pcvs, could have been sucking oil huh? Or I was also thinking I might have a few leaking valve seals maybe but there was definitely oil in the pcv
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I've seen it more than once. Usually has something to do with the oil pump. What kind of pump is in the motor? What kind of oil has been in it? What's the oil pressure been?
I've seen it more than once. Usually has something to do with the oil pump. What kind of pump is in the motor? What kind of oil has been in it? What's the oil pressure been?
Funny you ask. Maybe few months ago I had a leak at the back of the intake and I rushed to take off the intake but engine was still hot, as I took off the second bolt on the front pass side I heard coolant pouring into the valley and down into engine. I picked up some Mobil Super 5 30 synthetic BLEND to flush and run it for a while, then go back to the oil I have always used after the break in, Mobil 1 Synthetic 5w 30. Well I have been running that oil till the other day when it finally died. and kept putting off my oil transfusion back to fully synthetic . Ya think me neglecting the oil change played a part in this ? I remember when I pulled the intake this last time the rotor looked great and the gears were meshing perfectly. You think I could have been sucking oil through that pcv ? Darn it.
The vortec dizzy moves around a lot and has a lot of play when setting it in the hole. Misalignment be to blame?
My
If the distributor "has a lot of play when sitting in the hole" , as in side to side play, something is wrong there and misalignment of the gears is an almost certainty. In all of the distributors I've ever worked on the distributor has always fit perfectly with no side to side play, forget chasin yer tail with the oil stuff and go find a distributor that properly fits .........
The gear problems aside, that style of distributor cap is a common burn through misfire piece. Esp if aftermarket. Maybe use the correct distributor if you can.
If the distributor "has a lot of play when sitting in the hole" , as in side to side play, something is wrong there and misalignment of the gears is an almost certainty. In all of the distributors I've ever worked on the distributor has always fit perfectly with no side to side play, forget chasin yer tail with the oil stuff and go find a distributor that properly fits .........
Yeah I'll take a vid to show what I'm talking about thing moves front back and side to side. I can imagine it flexes under load. Could have stabbed it in a bit to one side and secured the bolt. I remember trying to center it as close to dead center before tightening the bolt. I'm kinda leaning towards lack of lubrication as oil was just below the cross hatch on the dipstick. Thinking maybe valve stem seals or that damn pcv. It would only smoke very lightly at idle. Did some more digging and read that the valve stem seals can sometimes let go of the little spring that sits on top of them and chew up the pump, scary shh haha. Oh well I knew I was running a bit low and I neglected my Maroe. I sure as hell hope the cam gear is okay man but I believe it's toast too. I peeped down the hole and it looks ok but got my doubts. As for the engine I'm just going to pull pan , oil pump and inspect everything I hope it's ok. Damn man this sucks bummed out.
Look's like the shaft on the distributor is bent. The first pic of the gears look good then as you turn the shaft it looks like the gear is losing a good fit & starting to 'climb' up the gear. I am sure if there is the play you stated would be a factor. As the dist. would not stay 'centered' . As was suggested get a proper fitting dist. or maybe a whole ign. system from like MSD or someone if room is the reason for the dist. you used. Also, I would be very sure to remove the cam & do a close inspection of that cam gear. You might also be needing a cam.
As far as other damage I am sure some metal got around but a decent filter should have caught the particles. When you look at the cam gear also look for scoring on the bearing's and surfaces. If there is none your possibly ok. When the timing cover comes off pay particular attention to the 'corners' ( where it joins the oil pan,ect.) for metal. If none you gor lucky. Even if there is you would have to do a 'refresh' rebuild to clean out all the oil passages. Sorry to say that, but thats how we learn about precision machines. Good luck.
Forget the PCV nonsense. That distributor clearly does not fit properly, which is why the gear got chewed up. Your cam gear could be chewed up as well...
If the distributor "has a lot of play when sitting in the hole" , as in side to side play, something is wrong there and misalignment of the gears is an almost certainty. In all of the distributors I've ever worked on the distributor has always fit perfectly with no side to side play, forget chasin yer tail with the oil stuff and go find a distributor that properly fits .........
I agree, all my distributors fit tight with no play of any kind.
I would be sourcing a new distributor, and cutting open the oil filter to see what's been caught.
Don't forget guys, before the oil gets to the filter, it has to through the oil pump.
If you find metal in the filter, you WILL NEED an oil pump at least.
Aftermarket intake manifolds typically have HUGE distributor holes.
Don't forget guys, before the oil gets to the filter, it has to through the oil pump.
If you find metal in the filter, you WILL NEED an oil pump at least.
Aftermarket intake manifolds typically have HUGE distributor holes.
That is true. At least inspection. Melling pumps are only like $40.
Look's like the shaft on the distributor is bent. The first pic of the gears look good then as you turn the shaft it looks like the gear is losing a good fit & starting to 'climb' up the gear. I am sure if there is the play you stated would be a factor. As the dist. would not stay 'centered' . As was suggested get a proper fitting dist. or maybe a whole ign. system from like MSD or someone if room is the reason for the dist. you used. Also, I would be very sure to remove the cam & do a close inspection of that cam gear. You might also be needing a cam.
As far as other damage I am sure some metal got around but a decent filter should have caught the particles. When you look at the cam gear also look for scoring on the bearing's and surfaces. If there is none your possibly ok. When the timing cover comes off pay particular attention to the 'corners' ( where it joins the oil pan,ect.) for metal. If none you gor lucky. Even if there is you would have to do a 'refresh' rebuild to clean out all the oil passages. Sorry to say that, but thats how we learn about precision machines. Good luck.
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Yep, shaft is bent . Has a mean wobble. The 500 ponys my LT4 Hotcam was putting down must of done it ha! I knew these vortec distributors were notorious but damn! First thing I noticed when I swapped over my melon gear from the hei over to the vortec dstributor was how skinny and weak the shaft looked. Should have known better and not ran it and went with an aftermarket one with a bigger shaft. The shaft on the hei measures 12.5 mm and the shaft on the vortec measures 10.5 mm. The body on the hei measure 24mm and 22mm on the vortec and made out of plastic. Definitely NOT a performance distributor. Thanks man I need the luck. Going to be removing pan soon.
If you put this in your Ebay Watchlist after a few days he will normally offer it to you for $20.00 or $25.00 off.
These high quality Vortec distributors are made in the U.S.A. in Carson City, Nevada. They have a low carbon steel centerless ground distributor shaft with a 0.500 diameter and feature a melonized GM marine distributor gear honed oversized to fit the larger distributor shaft and a GM magnetic pickup. They had a ball bearing upper end and oversized Oilite bronze bushing on the lower end but I believe they have Oilite bronze bushings upper and lower now due to reliability issues with the upper ball bearings in some applications. You can call and ask them if this is the case.
If you put this in your Ebay Watchlist after a few days he will normally offer it to you for $20.00 or $25.00 off.
These high quality Vortec distributors are made in the U.S.A. in Carson City, Nevada. They have a low carbon steel centerless ground distributor shaft with a 0.500 diameter and feature a melonized GM marine distributor gear honed oversized to fit the larger distributor shaft and a GM magnetic pickup. They had a ball bearing upper end and oversized Oilite bronze bushing on the lower end but I believe they have Oilite bronze bushings upper and lower now due to reliability issues with the upper ball bearings in some applications. You can call and ask them if this is the case.
These are really nice. Thanks for the plug bro. I have looked at the summit brand ones and MSD ones but these look a lot nicer and cnc'd. Made in the U.S.A. Droppig pan here in a min to see the bloodbath.
I've seen it more than once. Usually has something to do with the oil pump. What kind of pump is in the motor? What kind of oil has been in it? What's the oil pressure been?
Seen it myself a few times before and it wasn't the distributor's fault. the dizzy just got caught between something turning and something that didn't want to.
Seen it myself a few times before and it wasn't the distributor's fault. the dizzy just got caught between something turning and something that didn't want to.
What do you think happened in my situation? I believe I just used the wrong distributor for my setup. They are as light as a feather. They can't hold their own ground. Shaft diameter is more adequate for a 4 cylinder. Plastic really? Drained oil and I have magnetic material. Have not dropped pan yet.
As many Vortec (96-2000 SBC) motors as there are in the world, I can't believe that the design is inherently inadequate. Might look weenie next to others but there's not supposed to be that much force on them.
Looking at the one in the pics, looks to me like it was severely side-loaded, and ate the bushing in the bottom of the housing. Given that the dist itself is only a very tiny load, the only possible explanation is that the oil pump loaded it beyond its happy place.
Wouldn't surprise me a bit if the magnetic stuff was the root cause, and it getting into the oil pump caused enough interference with it, that it tore up the dist gear. I'd bet money that the glitter is from somewhere else if I was the betting kind. (I'm not) Not what you want to hear I don't doubt, but it's always important to separate symptoms from problems. Kinda like, if you see a little old lady laying on the sidewalk with her face turning grey, you don't ask the first passing woman to put more makeup on her so she looks better; you administer CPR and call an ambulance for a heart attack even if nobody wants to have that happen.
As many Vortec (96-2000 SBC) motors as there are in the world, I can't believe that the design is inherently inadequate. Might look weenie next to others but there's not supposed to be that much force on them.
Looking at the one in the pics, looks to me like it was severely side-loaded, and ate the bushing in the bottom of the housing. Given that the dist itself is only a very tiny load, the only possible explanation is that the oil pump loaded it beyond its happy place.
Wouldn't surprise me a bit if the magnetic stuff was the root cause, and it getting into the oil pump caused enough interference with it, that it tore up the dist gear. I'd bet money that the glitter is from somewhere else if I was the betting kind. (I'm not) Not what you want to hear I don't doubt, but it's always important to separate symptoms from problems. Kinda like, if you see a little old lady laying on the sidewalk with her face turning grey, you don't ask the first passing woman to put more makeup on her so she looks better; you administer CPR and call an ambulance for a heart attack even if nobody wants to have that happen.
If the glitter is bearing material, which I'm betting it is as well, would I be able to watch as it slowly erodes through my oil pressure gauge? Pressure dropping down slowly as clearances open up leading to a knock or worse. Or will it just go without warning. How much run time would you say it has left before it fails? Don't know what to do yet.
only your motor can tell you how long it has left.
if it's not knocking yet you may be able to save some of the inard pieces/parts. keep going and some of the pieces/parts may become piece/part.
I'm sometimes the curious type and might try turning that oil pump through the dist hole with one of those pre-lube dizzies that doesn't have the cam gear. see how much resistance I had.
either way though, I'd be looking forward to pulling the engine hoist out and putting it together for a project.
Got the pan off and it was pretty clean. No big pieces of metal. Pretty damn spotless . Pickup tube was clear, nothing in there. Guess all the metal went out when I drained the oil. Cut open filter and it had metal in it but not much, very small specs. Opened oil pump and it has some wear, check it out. Timing chain is ok and cam gear looks pretty good on one side haven't turned it over yet. Still trying to figure out what happened. I removed the shaft on the vortec distributor and it looks like it got hot. Has a burn tone. Sofa you said it might have been side loaded meaning that the cam is starting to push towards the the passenger side? Cam bearings worn throwing cam out of alignment?
Looking at these pictures over and over and over and something was just odd about it.
For giggles, I'd pull the cam out and check the runout of the gear running the distributor.
IIRC, there was another car on this site with a similar problem. The cast cam gear was just not drilled and pressed on the cam correctly, it was offset, messing a lot of things all up.
The interface between the cam gear and the dist gear is to the side of the dist shaft. ANY load on that gear interface is inherently side load on the shaft.
The dist itself present basically ZERO load to the gears. The ONLY thing that creates any significant load, is the oil pump.
That pump definitely has had some metal go through it.
The interface between the cam gear and the dist gear is to the side of the dist shaft. ANY load on that gear interface is inherently side load on the shaft.
The dist itself present basically ZERO load to the gears. The ONLY thing that creates any significant load, is the oil pump.
That pump definitely has had some metal go through it.
How bad is the rest of the motor hurt?
So load on the dis gear would have to be coming from the camshaft moving side to side? As far as damage, everything looks great under the oil pan, cam lobes look real good, cam gear looks good too. It was driving just fine until it got to higher rpms then it would misfire but no weird noises before it just shut off. I was doing very low rpms in 4th or 5th. Hmm.
The load on the dist shaft comes from the cam gear struggling to turn it. The gears try to push away from each other. The harder the cam gear has to try to twist the dist gear, the harder they try to push apart. The harder they try to push apart, the more force there is on the dist shaft, where it's trying to keep itself at the right distance from the cam and not get pushed over to the side.
The only significant load on the dist comes from the oil pump. If not for the oil pump there would be virtually no load on the gears, therefore virtually no force trying to push them apart, therefore virtually no side load on the dist shaft.
Has nothing to do with the cam moving side to side. The bearings (bushings, really) that the cam gear is between have about 50 times the load-bearing area that the dist shaft bushing has. The dist shaft bushing is the thing that's gonna lose that fight, every time. The cam will run true and not even notice the distress the dist is in.
If there's metal in the oil filter, it came from SOMEWHERE. Your mission now is to find that source and rectify it. Or, decide that it's insignificant and just put it back together and move on. Which could conceivably be true as well. I didn't see it so I have no clue and can't offer any advice as to that choice. You gotta take the risk vs expense/effort vs reward, one way or the other. One thing is for sure though; if the dist gear is plastic, then any metal at the scene of the crime didn't come from THAT, or, from the cam gear.
Post 41. I'd at least look closer at the cam gear just to rule it out 100% I was thinking the cam in the thread below was a steel cam with pressed on cast gear but it's a cast cam with messed up machining.
This post describes exactly what happened to my oil pump were the main gear dug into the cover plate as you can see in the pics due to too much endplay or not enough. Maybe need to ship body to intake? Never did set my shaft endplay. Also talks about accel and decel and how it affects the timing and distributor gear. Looks like a detail I missed. What do you guys think on this subject? I believe the gears got hot due to low oil and low coolant as I had just put everything back together from swapping out tob and didn't fill up my coolant all the way. Sound like a theory? Also read that aerated oil can put shock loads on gear and pump. Low oil could have attributed. If shaft had lot of endplay I can see how it can be moving up and back down putting downward force on pump gear upon decel and accel especially with a manual were I have a tendency of being in gear and repeatedly accel and decel. Dude was saying this ccan afdect timing and rob the engine of power. Does anybody have a slight jerk when letting of pedal when in a gear? Always noticed that and didnt think much about it.
i believe
Last edited by maroe624; Feb 22, 2022 at 07:43 PM.
Hey so swapped out my oil pump for a new Melling pump, got everything back together ready to run but waiting on a magnetic oil drain plug and trying to source a melonized gear. Also picked up a cheap replacement distributor made out of aluminum for 40 bucks on ebay and it fits pretty good, not as much play as the plastic one had. I am kinda hesitant to buy a billet version for 250$ If I can get away with using this one. It looks like a quality piece. I am going to take my chances and see what transpires. Naf mentioned that he has seen this happen when something gets caught in between the gears, upon removing my valve covers to check for debris I found about a half an inched sized piece of copper tubing from oil pressure line sitting on a head bolt, wondering if that may have been the culprit. My timing gear and thrust plate were nice and smooth and showed no signs of wear. Yo Sofa you think I need a billet version or I should be good with the aluminum one I picked up ? I really beat on the plastic distributor with lots of 5k rpm pulls before my throwout went out. So it was definitely doing the job .
So I found out my issue. I used the wrong size distributor gear. Used part number 10456413 which is .491 for an HEI , on the smaller .430 vortec shaft. I remember when I swapped over the gear from my hei to the vortec shaft, I noticed the play but didn' t think much of it. Rookie mistake. Damn I hope I didn't cause too much damage . Going to get it back up and running and hope for the best. Anybody care to share a horror story similar to this? Thanks Tuned Performance.
Boy I thought about all kinds of theory's as to why this happened but was nothing but stupidity on my part. I noticed the play and still ran it . Few more things and I'll be ready to fire it up. Hoping for the best. Yo that wrench is definitely Made in the USA.
Good news. Fired up no problem and no funny noises. Changed oil and filter after few hours of running and not much on the neo magnet. Runs great .Seems like it sounds a bit choppier too. Have you guys seen the video on Youtube were the guy blows up his fresh rebuild 350 in a matter of minutes . I'd hate to feel what that guy felt when that piston came barking through the pan haha.
If the distributor "has a lot of play when sitting in the hole" , as in side to side play, something is wrong there and misalignment of the gears is an almost certainty. In all of the distributors I've ever worked on the distributor has always fit perfectly with no side to side play, forget chasin yer tail with the oil stuff and go find a distributor that properly fits .........
This right here. ^^^
I happen to have an assortment of Vortec distributors - They don’t fit at all like the third gen standard small block hei distributor.
Glad it worked out for you. Holley had billet Accel distributors on their eBay account for like $30 - apparent water damage to the box. I wish I’d bought 2.
I happen to have an assortment of Vortec distributors - They don’t fit at all like the third gen standard small block hei distributor.
Glad it worked out for you. Holley had billet Accel distributors on their eBay account for like $30 - apparent water damage to the box. I wish I’d bought 2.
30 bucks is a steal. The 40 dollar amazon distributor I picked up has been doing good. No problems yet. Will pull it out soon just to see how it's doing but so far so good.
