Just picked up a beaut of a trans am, 87 clean body, been sitting for a while the guy i got it from said he thinks injectors are bad... either way, the steering wheel has a bunch of play and the key has to be just right to turn, but i was testing some things and figuring out some of the after market wires on it (old clifford alarm system was installed at some point), and when trying to jump some of the terminals between the Ign where theres no fuse it fired up a moment, ( some starter fluid sprayed in intake ahead of time) either way from my testing it seems like the IGN doesn't have much to do with why it wasn't working, but I was wondering is there any known column issues that may be cause starting problems if it's not grounding out properly or something of the like? I have to pull the steering wheel off and fix the play etc and test the switch and everything but I was baffled when it fired up for a minute but I think I was pulling on the steering wheel a little bit because I was holding the jumper in.... just riffing right now I'll update with some more details and test results once I can get back into it around work and such..

day after picking it up... sitting about 9 years, interior needs some love but no rot

 

Welcome Aboard!

As you may be aware, the ignition switch is not in the upper portion of the column, so everything above/beyond the dash panel is just mechanical linkage needed to actuate the switch. It is common for a loose tilt mechanism and loose or worn rod actuator to prevent proper extension of the switch actuating rod. With a manual trans it can be a bit more of a challenge, but the switch can be actuated directly for testing. You only have to perform a handstand, dive into the footwell head-first, and contort your arms and torso to hold the flashlight, slide the switch rod, and hold the clutch pedal down with your fourth hand to see if the switch contacts are all making and breaking contact correctly. Easy, right?

There is no really common failure of the switch or steering column wiring and grounding in the ThirdGen series, although the mechanically worn tilt mechanism is not uncommon on any vehicle using that design after 35 years of survival. The fix for that is well documented in many sources.

One positive is that the car appears to be pretty complete and intact, at least from the angle you photographed.

Before making any presumptions, it would be good to get the vehicle cranking reliably, then diagnosing the reason for the no-start. The aftermarket alarm systems are always highly suspect, just like remote starts and "security" systems designed to prevent unauthorized starting. It is doubtful that an '87 has the VATS system, so if the injectors have a 12V+ supply and the ECM is getting the distributor pulse string, the injectors should be operating. An easy method for testing all of that is to monitor the injector circuits right at the injectors using a test lamp.

Of course, fuel pressure needs to be sufficient at the same time, so that's another item to verify.

Good luck.

 

thanks for the helpful response, one caveat is it will crank reliably now i figured out the key issue, im going to go out check the switch, i definitely hear the fuel pump but i didnt check fuel pressure yet, right now it definitely doesnt regularly get spark though

Thanks for the input, will keep this updated and i can grab more pics, its a very clean unit besides like mouse damage and one trunk hinge

 

First thing I'd do is, find that "point", and REMOVE IT. Lots of those things used to disable the ignition, then when EFI came out they added or changed to disabling the fuel pump electrical system. No sense leaving a crappy land mine in your car that's got a very good chance of being The Problem You're Trying To Solve right now, and even if it's not, you're bound to step on it sooner or later.

 

​​​i agree, most of the messing about i was doing was tracing all the things that got ran in it and cleaning out mice residues, most of it is luckily not messed with, going to have to find a new carpet at some point... unfortunately im only getting a few hours in at night and an hour in the am working on it till the weekend after this i wont have a full day to put into it and really get some more of the interior out and such and make some real progress, right now main focus is fixing the column and ignition, getting reliable spark and then ill be going on from there taking out one section of the alarm at a time so if anything acts up i can retrace and splice whats needed without chasing the issues... Ive built the wiring harness for a few cars ive had for tucking bays and such, so worst case scenario I'll be pulling everything out n make it all fresh, I'd rather not get that into that, it doesn't seem that bad where its at

 

Wrong order to attack it in.

De-sodomize the alarm situation FIRST since it's likely to be the cause of the other problem.

Kinda stuuupid to work on The Symptom (no-start) while leaving The Most Likely Problem (hacked wiring re. the alarm) in place, don't you think? Sorry, just being logical.

 

I'm going to be tackling them sort of in tandem, either way the steering column needs to be fixed and if that's tighter and all that stuff is working easier and the keys turning nice that'll make all the other stuff easier to do and I'm going to do it anyway eventually. But I agree fixing the symptom instead of the problem is never the best way, I do know it has ability to have spark the way it is so I can trace that down electronically pretty easily but I don't like having to leave the key in it and having the fight with the wheel every time i futz with anything.. it's like three or four inches side to side play with the column, its not just a little bad lol either way, i appreciate the advice, the alarm system is going before its on the road

 

Yeah the "steering column" doesn't need to be fixed first; only the WIRING.

The symptom you are describing sounds for all the world like the fuel pump isn't priming. I.e, no fuel pump relay. Butt when the oil pressure gets high enough, the OPSU switch for the fuel pump, is satisfied, and sends power to the pump, so then the car can run, and all is well with the world until the next time you need to start it. Butt THEN you have no fuel pump again until oil pressure is sufficiently built up which the starter can't do on its own.

Logic.

Sounds like your alarm may well be disabling the ECM –> fuel pump command, as a means of immobilizing the car. Factory security systems do the same thing.

GET THAT ALARM OUT OF THERE. Fix the wiring FIRST. Then AND ONLY THEN, work on the no-start, if it still exists. Then once it starts on its own, AND ONLY THEN, work on the column.

Order. Cause. Consequences.

Logic. Reason. Avoid tail-chasing.

 

​​​​​​sooo i think someone removed the alarm poorly in the past, cant find a module for it but theres signs of it everywhere, anyone point me in the direction of a good resource for wiring diagrams?

fuel pump is priming im going to try and check fuel pressure in a little

 

​​​​​​​FSM

 

fsm is definitely a good resource, ill do a few searches for it see what i find....

tested the injectors, they pulse while cranking, fuel pressure idk if its up to where it should be but it is priming and i depressurized it from the rail and it rebuilt the pressure when the ignition switch is on.... definitely not getting spark, i need to chase that down, (used a spark tester and all, also double checked it with an induction clamp on my fluke) i was using starter fluid the other night and it only fired up randomly once, couldnt replicate that today, fixed a few of the wires that were clear where they went, interior lights are all working now, radio worked for a minute but shut down, didnt make any changes. got some gremlins, everything seems a little stiff from sitting, took apart the door buzzer and freed that up and treated it with some wd thats working now too.

ignition switch looks super haggard, some of the wires have cracked insulation coming out too, continuity is good though, havent dug into the pin out for testing yet but ill have to get into that tmrw, just running out of time tonight and sorting out what wiring i could was a bear, had to take my time getting some interior pieces out without breaking anything, old 80s plastic im sure youre all familiar.

going to get a fuel pressure tester and revisit it. hopefully have some diagrams on hand and some more time to go through it and figure out what was messed up with the stupid alarm system buggery, see if the module for it is buried in the car somewhere.

https://www.onlymanuals.com/pontiac/firebird/1982_1992_pontiac_firebird_8_cylinders_f_50l_mfi_ohv_31052003

found this "fsm" manual but it doesnt seem complete, seems to be more like a basic service guide. is there a resource on this site im overlooking for the FSM or is the best route to buy one? most i find are going for 100 bucks and i want to make sure it includes the diagrams im going to need to make my life a little easier and save time getting this beaut together properly. the fsm's i own for a few other cars have a couple hundred pages, (est. like 400-500 pages) the ones im finding dont seem like they have near that



also cant find where this is supposed to be
:edit: seems like this is a brake related switch, mine thats installed right now looks a bit different, is this possibly not used on the manual version?


there is a switch of some sort at the top of the clutch pedal, keeps popping out when the pedal goes up, on my prelude this is where the cruise control cut off is for the clutch pedal, on this im guessing its the "clutch anticipation switch" ? from what I've been able to find it's not a requirement for the car to run But if anyone has experience with it I'd love to confirm that






side note not too important, does anyone know anything about the rear roof spoiler on this? ive only seen it in some old magazines until i found this car... also it has the little square firebird flashlight in the roof console and i was told that was a less common feature, either way this car is super neat... sorry if im being long winded and not clear on my posts, still getting over the excitement, ive wanted a trans am ever since i was 12 and got into cars (over 20 years ago) literally was the first model car i ever built. 🥴


​​​​​​​

 

FSM = Factory Service Manual = published by, or under license of, the vehicle mfr (GM in this case), primarily for use by their own stores

Yes it's about the size of an old phone book... expect something around 8½ x 11" and about 1½ - 2" thick. Acoupla pages of "diagnostic info" isn't it. Chilton's Hayne's etc. aren't it. They pop up on auction sites and whatnot once in a while; probably not on this site except maybe in the classifieds. They're copyrighted after all, wouldn't be legal to post them somewhere for free, although then that would depend on somebody noticing and making it get taken down. $100 seems about right, maybe a bit on the cheeeep side even. After all, it only takes fixing ONE problem, to make every penny of that back, and then you get to keep it for the NEXT problem too. If you can get one for $100, grab it.

Not sure what that clear/white connector is. Wire colors are always a clue. One is pink/blk, which is the factory's color code for the "GAGES" circuit. Not sure what the other is. The wires look like they might be factory but the connector, I'm not sure. If it is, it's likely for something like fog lights or rear window defogger.

Yes that's what it is. Should also be a vacuum valve associated with it, either part of it or a seprate piece. Never heard of "clutch anticipation switch". Pretty sure these cars don't have one of those, whatever it is.

Yuck. I had forgot about those. Not factory, just some aftermarket add-on dead-weight bloat you could buy at the van customization type places. Sorry to see your car has one. Hopefully, however it attaches, it didn't damage the hatch too much, and won't leave too much evidence when you take it off and throw it in the trash.

The roof console was indeed relatively uncommon. I don't like to use the word "rare" on a mass-produced product, but then, I'm not a Firebird person. Hard to find batteries for that flashlight these days.

 

haha my grammer needs work maybe, i know what an FSM is i own several, what I mean is the ones I am seeing for sale don't look phone book size but I'll browse around some more. chilton etc is good for some things but more if you're never getting into the car too deep and there's nothing in those ones that I really need to reference to do. I have a couple years of experience as mechanic but unfortunately mostly modern cars and the diagrams were available where I worked for all the things.

if you do a search on the switches and stuff above the clutch that's where I found "clutch anticipation switch" which I've never heard of before but the information posted said it was to help smooth sputtering in between shifts and it wasn't really necessary.. seems odd to me.

and I'm comfortable buying a PDF version if it's complete. not really looking for a free one just looking for a trusted resource but I'll probably just get the hard copy on eBay they're nice to have.

I suspected the rear roof spoiler was something like that
defogger works right now but I'll follow that wire once I have a minute and hopefully find a complete diagram.

 

Since that connector has the pink/blk wire, if it's factory, whatever it did would have been available only when the ignition is on. That leads one to suspect that it was for some sort of option that the car isn't equipped with. Hard for me to say what that might be but maybe its placement in the vehicle would be a clue, for instance if it was supposed to plug into a dash switch or something.

An actual FSM is getting harder to find all the time. Pontiac ones always were harder to get than Chevy ones for some reason, and of course dealerships aren't buying service docs for 35-yr-old cars, so there's zero incentive for them to be published anymore. AFAIK it was never released by Helm (the publisher GM used for printing it) in pdf format. I could be wrong though. Nowadays somebody might have scanned one into pdf format but it wouldn't be text; it would be a bunch of images, i.e. not searchable or anything like that, and not strictly legal in any case. If whoever owns the rights to it now were to find out, it could be very costly to whoever created it. Frankly I don't know of any other "trusted resource" for that sort of thing besides the vehicle mfr... nobody else would have the schematic diagrams for the electrical system, for example. austinthirdgen.org used to have a few of the FSMs for these cars, if nobody has made them take them down, but I have no clue of the details. I have my own FSM.



The one for your car might look somewhat similar to this. It might come in several volumes; Cadillac ones from around the same time were like that.

 

ordered a fsm, will post updates once i dig into a bit, appreciate all the advice, anyone has any ideas though feel free to add

 

update: fixed a
​​​wire under the column ( wasnt sending power to the ign module) and traced back to the ignition and pick up coil were shorted out, (seems the internals started rotting out a little bit from sitting) after replacing the dizzy got it too fire up, ran pretty rough and wouldnt run with the maf hooked up, tested that, the MAF was no good too after doing that she has smoothed out a bunch, not quite right yet, set the timing and the throttle plate stop screw was cranked out back that off as well.

after that seemed to be running into moisture in the fuel issues, drained that, refilled added some iso-heet and its a bit better, still stumbles a bit and hesitates throughout the range, i feel the idle should be a little smoother too.

​​​going to get tires on and go through a drive cycle or two and run through some more stuff and see what is going on. appreciate the advice thus far all