ok i just watched Card and Driver the other day and thought this was funny...

ford HAD to supercharge the dam car to get the power anywhere near the LS1's, now isn't this just pituful. its funny that this is what they have to resort to, to be able to come close to the Genuine Chevrolet. just proving that ford has always been second to Chevy.

Later
Shean

 

But they are pretty damn fast

 

Wow, you're cool

 

Ya let's take that 5.7 LS1 and compare it to the supercharged 4.6 that's fair. There is no replacement for displacement, but I do applaud Ford for trying to find one (and they did it's called boost). Just too bad Chevrolet doesn't have the ***** to do two things, Continue to make the Camaro and supercharge the LS1.
I'm with Nic here not cool. The Cobra will not only match the performance of the LS1 it will beat it.

There is no engine out there that is ***'s gift to engine's (well maybe a rotarty, heh heh). An engine is an engine just because chev made it doesn't mean it will desimate all.

Later, Garrett

 

Dont even bring up this old issue. This issue has caused so many flame wars it is sad.

 

I think Ford is equally as potent as a Chevy. Of course it all varies depending on what vehicle a particular engine is in. I don't really care since they are all good engines. I am more partial to the Ford 5.0 though for its responsiveness to simple mods.

 

I do kinda wonder why ford didn't just use the 5.4? short block. Wouldn't that be easier and more reliable? Not trying to flame anyone or start trouble but I really don't think much of using a poweradder of any kind to catch a ls1. I'd rather see a n/a 5.4 in the mustangs than a blown 4.6

 

I'm guessing it has something to do with emissions and fuel economy.

 

Okay the original poster has obviuosely never heard of the potential of factory power adders. Look at the GTPs and GNs. With easy simple mods these car can be made incredibly fast! A GTP could easily see mid to low 13s, and a GN can be pushed right into the 12s without issues. the new Mustang has the same benefit, and can be easily pushed into the 11s.

I don't think they NEEDED to supercharge, but they did CHOOSE to do it, like was stated, to keep good fuel economy, and good emissions!

One more thing, if you are going to say Rustangs, spell it right!

 

now if dodge were to put a nice shiny roots blower on their new hemi........... the intake ports are just begging for one.

 

also, i don't believe their power problem lies in the 4.6 litre displacement.

don't the ford 4.6 have a poor lowend? if they do it is because of too much valve area. the 4 valve per cylinder engines can flow lots of air at high rpms, but when at low rpms this valve arangement kills the intake port velocities. and thus torque.

with two valves per cylinder the intake port velocities are high at low rpms because of limited valve area. and loose out at higher rpms cause they cannot flow as much.

i believe that is right.

 

the intent for this post was to state what they had done, i think its pitiful that they would have to supercharge the engine to get the same power, but i do give them respect for being fast, thas about it though, to over priced for all their stuff...

 

We all know what they did, thank you!

And when is a 360 rwhp car worth 35,000 overpriced! It makes Z06 power at an SS vert price! Hardly overpriced.

They did not have to supercharge, as shown with the FR500, 400+ hp from a naturally aspirated mod motor, they just chose to, because of the success of other supercharged and turboed vehicles.

 

the new cobra is indeed awesome!!!

 

In case you haven't noticed, lately the trend has been away from the Ford vs GM vs Dodge rivalry and swinging more towards Ford/GM/Dodge vs. 4-cyl Imports from hell!


We can still have a fun rivalry, but i'll defend a Chevy against ignorant import drivers anyday

 

Well I think its a plus when a car comes from the factory with F/I. It will respond to mods way better than a N/A setup. Better bang for the buck is always good news to me. So Ford gets a thumbs up from me on the new Cobra and the Lightning.

The lame part is when those new Cobra owners (or their lame family members like Monkie) go around talking smack because they now have power. I mean its great to have a fast car but to compare it to a N/A car and then diss the N/A car (or even its 10 year old counterparts) is just lame. Thats when the 'Well you needed a supercharger to keep up with LS1's' thing starts. I wouldnt start that stuff though. I'd rather bite my tounge. To me the bottom line is how fast you are. Dosnt matter how you get there. And those new Cobras are pretty fast.

 

 

The enemy of your enemy is your friend......
biker

 

MY friends who are all about fords tell me the 03 cobra is being discontinued due to the motors blowing. so i guess we don't have to worry about them anymore.

 

could have been just one of those freak runs for a while

 

SS's are over priced- not worth the extra cash for 20 horses or what ever. Compare the new Cobras to the regular Z-28 6 spd. and they are over priced, for the extra cash you pay, you could put a freakin' ATI on and tear some a$$holes!!! OR: you could do all the minor mods like full exhaust and chip, and Filtercharge it, then you could keep up if you mod it right, this would be for warranty purposes cause thar's what the stang guys always bring up. Remember, MOST of these Cobras are still being driven (stock) in the very high 12's, that ain't that great, or unobtainable while retaining warranty.

If I say put a blower on it and you'll still have play cash and beat the Cobra, you guys say " But you won't have a warranty!!"

I think the new Cobras are awesome, and in reality they aren't THAT overpriced, put another 3 thousand or so and you can hit 11's no problem. That's faster than Vipers, Lotus's and a lot of Ferraris. But in comparison to the LS1 Z-28, they are overpriced, cause everyone knows that the best bang for your buck musclecar right now is definately the T/A / Z-28.

 

Yep, stopped production for a while. Here's the link:

http://www.auto.com/industry/ford30_20021030.htm

 

I've wondered about the 5.4 thing too.

The Cobra R (Yeah all 300 of them ) and the new cobra are about the same HP but I don't know about the difference in torque. The FR500 was a 4.6 bored to 5.0 making around 415 HP N/A.

So it is possible to make that much HP on a N/A mod motor, thats been proven. They didn't HAVE TO use a blower to make those numbers. WHY they chose to I'm still not sure. But the cool factor is there thats for sure.

Maybe they went S/C for torque/midrange/low end. the DOHC 4.6s are major RPM motors N/A, and the higher HP ones are likely even more so. 4.10-4.30 gears is actually perfect for these cars and what most guys are running who are modding them. Plus like a few guys have said, factory FI cars have TONS of potential. MMFF ran an 11.98 in a new cobra with slicks, a lightning blower pulley, and, well, thats it. Stock 3.55 gears, stock exhaust, stock air filter/silencer. Think what that'd do with 4.30s, no cats, mufflers, and an open intake!

 

I completely agree with you there. You can get a low/no option Z with the T56 for like $22,000 or something like that right? Well, when they still made them. Thats an awsome freakin deal for what you're getting, even though its still 3 times more than I can afford at this point in my life.

 

Ohhhhhh ok. See I was under the idea that the 2000 Cobra R with the N/A 5.4L that was still smaller than the 5.7L LS1 actually beat the LS1. I didn't know Ford was just now getting around to the power of a LS1 with a supercharger! Man, I'm glad you clued me in on that! dumb ***. Good Theoretical and Street Racing post too

 

nevermind

 

I'm with you on this one.....Damn rIcErS

 

then why did the general stop making them?????
that is why I keep
biker

 

i got a couple of questions... ok.. does the lightning's 5.4 have dohc or sohc?... and Snake... how can u compare a Cobra R to a Camaro? thats a huuuuuuge price gap. I can see price wise for a Camaro/TA vs a 03 Cobra and see how that can be matched up... but i dunno about a Cobra R... thats a stretch...

 

5.4L DOHC and I'm comparing the Cobra R engine to the LS1 not the car itself.

 

Snake you can't compare like that. So let's put the Cobra R engine against the LT5 or the LS6 (new or old). You can't put the DOHC engine that is a little more pricey than a cheaper pushrod LS1. The 5.4 32V engine was designed for racing, this was just one of those cars they had to build to be able to use the engine in racing. And again there where 300 Cobra R's made and what 30,000+ LS1 Z/28's and T/A's made in 2000.

This post will never end with anyone agreeing so why do I even bother ?

Later, Garrett

 

Oh don't get me wrong the Cobra R engine is great just not a fair compairison between it and the LS1.

Later, Garrett

 

How the hell is a 5.4L DOHC Navigator engine not able to compare to a LS1 just because its bigger than a 4.6L? Psh, ok....What about the 1999 351W engine? It would rape the hell out of a LS1.

 

FR500 5.0L DOHC engine there you go N/A and makes over 400hp. This topic sucks so hard. To say that Ford needs to put a supercharger on their engine to match the LS1. Yea, well the LS1 has to have heads in order to beat the 3.8L V6 Ford engine. This is so stupid

 

I wonder if these cobras can play with the z06s

 

Uhhhh yea. Just slap on a $100 pulley and beat his *** in the ground.

 

My bad, get a K&N air filter too and take off the air box and cut the 4 cats off.

 

I watched that car and driver TV as well and they had an interview with John Coletti (spelling?) of SVT and he stated that "they couldn't get the power they wanted out of an N/A engine" so they went with the documented reliability of the Lightning and decided to supercharge the Cobra, remember they do not have a sports car like the Corvette in their lineup like Chevy does which is the reason Chevy did not supercharge the Camaro for production, it would have been more powerful than the Corvette at a less price and did not make marketing sense. Ford is in a great position because of not really having a better car in their lineup, they can do whatever they want with the Cobra keeping their faithful happy.

 

OK Snake here's what I'm trying to tell you, your comparing the super high end Mustang's engine's to the run of the mill Chevrolet engine's. Like I said earlier if you want to compare the Cobra R engine to the LS1 look at the production numbers in 2000 (Camaro's w/ LS1 no T/A included) 20406 Cobra R's 300. And now the 1999 Production of the 351W Mustang 461 and the Camaro's w/ LS1's 17393.
Snake I'm not saying that the Ford engine's aren't awesome (because they are) but those are Ford's Super engine's and the LS1 is chevy's street engine. How about the LS6 in the new vette's 405 horse and all N/A pushrod??


Later, Garrett

 

so we are on the subject of the 03' S/C cobra, first off the car is not worth $40,000 second of all for the price tag thay are not that fast. My dad has an 01' Z28 which he has done heads, cam, and bolt ons, this has landed him around a grand total of about $33,000 and he runs 11.30s all day so still costing less than a new cobra, and it will beat a modded out cobra, to me that is sad. Oh and if you did supercharge a new LS1 with the same boost as a new cobra you would not have a problem running mid 11s all day. I have seen 2 cobras run where I live one had an X-Pipe no cats bfg DR and a different air intake that got him a 12.1@114 , the other was stock and he pulled a 12.9 @ 111. My dads car stock went 12.8 @ 110 with Nitto DR, So from what I saw the S/C cobra was not that impressive. That is my opinion on the subject.

 

I doubt that a stock 01 Z28 LS1 ran a 12.8, that is Z06 territory.
Is it a 01 SS? Even still 12.8 kinda hard to believe.

 

Give me $33,000 and I will gaurentee 9s all day long on pump gas and street tires!

And $22,000??? I don't kow where you live but, $25,000+ for a base M6. We looked at a 2000 brand new Formula, with no options, and a GM discount came to $23,000!

Plus the new Cobras are selling around $36,000, same as the anniversary Camaro SS's.

 

I did wonder why the cobra R motor (5.4 DOHC) never went into a real (not limited) production mustang.

They are pretty amazing motors...and are making more than their advertised 385hp. I saw one dyno just under that at the wheels.

I remember hearing that Ford was having issues getting the 5.4 to fit under the stock mustang hood...which explains the cobra R hood.

As for the '03 cobras...they are very nice cars. They go like hell if driven.

-Doug

 

hey guys try going to LS1tech. com and than you tell me stock Z28s, and SS's don't run High 12s, stock Z06 will run low 12s. And for the 03' cobra the two guys at the track both paid over $40,000 thay said. My dad got his Z28 new for $28,000 loaded. You guys don't know much on LS1's if you are telling me stock ones don't see 12s with Nittos, Go to LS1tech.com and trust me you will be surprised.

 

As for the $33,000 that included the price of the car.

 

It dosn't matter if it is an SS, WS6,Z28,Trans Am, or a formula, anyone who knows the cars would know that. I have seen SS's run 13.8 and as low as 12.9 stock with street tires. and Z28's running 13.8s to 12.9s totaly stock. learn the facts before you tell me I am full of BS.

 

I don't care if John Force is driving, a stock LS1 Camaro would never run a high 12, if they did, we would all sell our 3rd gens and buy them. So all I can say is that if you saw a TOTALLY stock with street tires Z28 run high 12's look for a hidden nitrous system. Other that that

 

Like I said you guys don't know much about LS1's if you have never seen a stock Z run high 12s I mean come on there has to be someone here who has some knowledge of a stock LS1 running high 12s other wise you guys do not race much is all I am saying. Once again go to LS1Tech.com go to there dragracing forum and than tell me some stock ones don't run 12s. you guys probobly think a stock LS1 F-body can't beat a stock C-5 eather right!!! The Z06 would blow the F-body away but most reg. C-5s cannot. I wish I could afford a LS1 and a 3rd gen, those would be the best 2 cars to have. but at 20 that is not yet possible.

 

I guess most of us are into L98's and such since that is what we have, I did try to get info about an LS1 swap since I could have got one with the T56 for a good price, but most posts said it was a hard conversion into a 3rd gen.

 

I added a question at LS1Tech.com, It is in the dragracing forum, I asked if it is possible to run 12s with a stock Z28 with a 6spd. you can go there and find out that people did run high 12s when thay were stock. Oh I am not the type of person who will rub it in your face when you find out I am right, it is just you lack of knowledge about LS1's