I was wondering what the throttle response would feel like with a carbed HO Camaro vs. a fuel injected 240sx... both 5 spd....

I am interested in trying to add some american touch to the drift scene around my town.

i know it's possible and all...

but, what is the camaro going to feel like vs. the 240sx.

considering the way each car was built.

in otherwords,

should i buy another 240sx.. same thing i've owned 3 times.

or switch it up with a thirdgen?

(btw, is $700 dollars cheap for a running high output camaro? needs a lot of upkeep, but interior is semi clean, and just needs paint, tires, and probably brakes... but the seatbelts work!)

(i daily drive a LG4 camaro)

 

there are some members on the forum that drift third gens

 

3rd gens are easy to drift as the read end likes to break loose around sharp curves by just giving it a little gas, you don't have to e-brake it like those POS ricers.

 

I have both...and honestly, my iroc breaks the rear super easy, but the 240 is just way easier to control. The brakes are better and the turning radius is better. I take a turn and downshift and the 240 already gets sideways and it just countersteer and work the throttle the whole way. But I like both, and im USED to the 240 so i find it easier, im sure once i get used to the IROC ill have my opinion changed. But both can be done, and stick camaros would be a bit harder, since u got that extra pedal and play with the shifter.

 

E-braking is not drifting, drifters use the ebrake to lock the rear wheels in order to kick them sideways while they are revving up the engine to spin the tires while sideway or something its hard to explain. But drifting...REAL drifting, is a lot harder than it you think. The 240 is just an all around awesome car for it, and its actually quite more american than import.

 

First off, I wasn't referring to the 240 as a *****, I was saying the 3rd gen does it better than ricers, I actually like 240s, though isn't that a datsun/nissan?

And I find the 3rd gen easy to control, mind you, I drive it hard on curvy roads a lot for fun, and I like to break its @$$ loose lol.

And watch Formula D or any other professional drift circuit, they're yanking those e-bakes all the time.

 

I have had 3 240's and 3 camaro's. The easyest one to slide is the 240, but the the camaro takes skill. Its easy to slide if you know the weight transfer well, and on a camaro its alot. If you want to slide a left handed 90 degree corner its easy in a camaro. If you want to take it to a autocross drift session or whatever. I would deffinantly get a mini spool or a good lsd or possi. When you toy to monji or dorry you will get one wheel and its not able to keep consistant slide with open diff.

I would det a good diff or mini spool first thing for drifting. Then get the car low as possible to reduce weight transfer. It would be best to try to run small profile tires also to keep easy tire speed and low pro tires dont have side wall flex as much as big tires. Stiffen the back or the car as much as you can. What i did was cut 2 coils off all four springs then put 2 spring rubbers in all 4 springs. that will keep the car nice and stiff. For driving on the road its not to comfertable like the 240 with cuts and a welded it drove like sh** on the street but drifted great.


But ya a good diff and do the spring trick, low pro tires and you shoud be good to go. At least thats what i did and it slid great. good luck to. its alwase fun to go out there with a third gen and slide with the s13's that think they are cool cause they have a SR20DET ya its fast but what ever i had KA's

 

yeah, i've been driving 240's for a long time, it's what i learned in, the reason i wanted to change to the third gen is just to be different.

** ka > Sr anyday... torque is awesome on the ka.

** e brake is used to create angle, and to start a drift...

i think you guys set my mind to it...

i need a challenge, im going to go thirdgen.

as for cutting the weight on the car...

how much can i get off by just gutting the interior?

and as for the diff...

i only ran a welded diff on the 240...

would the camaro be more prone to break the diff?

cause with the 240, i had 2...

one broke that was poorly welded.
and one that lasted me 2 years of abuse.

 

Ya i had a 89, 90, 90 240sx i slid those to like 2 years went through 9 ka motors then called it good after running the KAT then sold it. I loved drifting the 240's but i blew a ton of motors. Anywase

On the Camaro welding the diff i would just get a mini spool they are very cheap cause a welded in a camaro is very different than a welded in a 240 cause the 240 has a pumpkin diff or whatever you call is and the axles can bolt off. It you blow the diff in the 240 you can simply take 15 or 20 mins pulling the diff and replacing it with a new one. '

Completly different case with the camaro. If you welded the diff in the camaro it will work just fine till you blow it(you will blow it way faster than any 240 would due to weight)plan on taking the whole rear end out and geting a new one cause with it welded you cand remove the axles to pull the ring and pinion out to replace it when it breaks. Im sure you dont want to be replacing the whole rear end when it breaks. Then go through bleeding the breaks and just the labor it will be doing it. So i would strongly reccomend getting a mini spool or even a full spool to do easy ring and pinion changes. Im sure you will like the fact that you heve a spool over the welded. Unless you like swapping the rear end when ever it d=breaks i think not. lol


As for gutting the car it will not make a differance because you maybe loose 40 lbs out of the car with the back seats gone and carpet. Not worth it to me but thats my. Just keep your interior. It makes the car look nice also.

Drifting a camaro will be more challenging cause all the weight and if you crash it its not like a 240 where you can just find a shell on craigslist or somthing. A camaro will be more expensive.

 

the pro drifters use the e-brake so they can whip the rear end around quickly, and while they're on the e brake they smash the gas so when they get off the e-brake the tires are spinning and makin nice smoke and keep it sideways. they get judged on how sideways they get, and how much smoke they make plus speed.

so the only real reason they use the e-brake is to get sideways faster than dropping the gear. Ricers are the ones that HAVE to pull the e-brake cause they try drifting FWD cars lol

 

WoW wow wow dude. the so called ricers are the civics and the do the ebrake slide exactly like you said but they are idiots that f**k arround. the 240s use the ebrake to anniciate a slide and to extend the slide if they come to short of a corner the e brake is used in real drifting in many different ways. I was into drifting for 4 years. I should know. E brake sliding is a big key to drifting. Go on the nikko forms and other sites and you will learn lost of stuff about drifting.

And for the ricers they are the civics with a big fart can. a 240 is not so much a *****, rear wheel drive 5 speed tranny and SR20DET with 400 HP will beat a lot of cars out there. But i get your point your not to fimiliar with drifting.

 

travishenry, i drifted to, i used an RX-7, and i pulled the e-brake to. didnt always need to but i did. i shouldnt of called them ricers, more of drifting ricers i guess, they are the kind that only pull the e-brake cause there is snow on the ground and think they're kick a$$ cause they actually got sideways. in formula drifting they use e-brakes i know, and i know your supposed to cause its a lot easier to get in your corner. its all about skill.

and i dont think the camaro and 240 would be to much different in drifting except the fact that the camaro is prolly a lot bigger, but hey i see people in formula D drift mustangs (vaun ghitten jr) and he kicks a$$ at it.

are you a broncos fan??

 

Thats what I was trying to say. 240 is a great car, I love mine. Its super reliable, and it beats most cars in its class, and its good on gas and super fun. And as i said above it just takes getting used to the car. If your used to the camaro and you go and practice a lot you wont get any worse. But its not easy, I have spun out twice. Luckily I have never ended up in grass or ever hit anything.

 

yeah, FYI my LG4 Camaro is just as fast as a 240....
I raced my old one that i sold to my friend yesterday.
so as for toque and power to weight, they are exactly the same.
(both are well maintained, but the camaro is auto)

which brings me to buying the L69 camaro.
its 5spd which i heard that tranny is really weak...
but im not planning on upping any power on the camaro...
beside a decent exhaust.
(camaro and their choked exhaust... sigh)

it's got the 4 wheel disc brakes,
any idea to get those useful? i heard the third gen discs are horrible.

well, i get the car tomorrow.
i'll update the thread with my thoughts...

any suggestions post them up!

 

A camaro in the class of a small import lol....I mean up against civics and celicas and such. My friends 305 t.a pulls on me, but then again civics, eclipses, cant.

 

No broncos fan i dont watch foot ball to much. Thats my name. First and last. lol some one else asked me the same thing earlier.

But ya i love drifting but as far as being on the street i cant do it anymore cause of tickets. But i still go to willows at thunder hill to watch and if my car is ready ill go up there. I watched formula d at sears point last year and Vaun was awsome in the mustang and its awsome to see american muscle winning a japanese sport lol.

 

lol i know. that stang is pretty kick ***. only thing i wouldnt like if i was driving that stang is how small the windshield is. the hood is so high it'd be a PITA to see where you were drifitng. idk never drove that stang so im not sure how it is lookin out that thing.

and yeah the travis henry thing kinda made me think you liked the broncos or something lol.

 

my opinion, a camaro will get a lot less angle. As for the transmission it's plenty strong for in a stock application. I wouldnt worry about the transmission i'd get a new stock replacement clutch in it since it's going to be massively abuse they are at my local advanced auto for under 100$ and (lifetime warranteed). Also either get accustom to replacing the factory rubber transmission mount or deal with the harshness of a polyurethane tranmission mount. Rubber will brake alot especially if you start trying to drop a couple of gears and jar the drivetrain to let them lose all the time. I personally have broke 1 urethane mount for mine and 1 rubber so far.

as for brakes i know the pbr rear disk brakes are good, they are like 11.5in rotors, the other kind that came factory was a good bit smaller and fairly useless.

I would expect that you have the more useless kind.

best thing you can do is get a good set of rotors like baer or napa brand rotors for the front and rear, don't buy drilled and slotted. i'm personally very hard on brakes have had 4 sets of pads for the fronts on my car over about 2 years( yes the rotors are new and perfect and calipers are new) but, i often go 80mph+ and stomp the brakes.

so far the best pad i've used was a fully metallic compound carquest brand pad. I think next i'm going to buy something along the aftermarket line. The guy at carquest told me these pads would groove the rotors way before they wore out and he was full of it but they felt very good under high heat and acceptable under low heat situations. I think i will probably go with ebc red stuff pads for my next set which it needs after 5,000 miles of hard use already.

I think my next investment for braking will be along the lines of an adjustable preporting valve and then bigger front brakes like a 1le swap or ls1 or c5 corvette fronts but, they are out of my price currently, so i'll stick to metallic pads and an adjustable preportioning valve so i get good braking on the rears as well since they don't do a lot.

as for welding the diff i wouldnt get a mini spool as stated above for the reasons stated above.

 

I would go with the 3rd gen and build it up over 300rwhp and suspension work with a good set of tires and i think you wont have a proplem. I got good at drifting around long turs and hold it very well i can also do it ok on drive pavement but i dont have the power and tires are to much for me lol. But i think with some power your going to have a great car!
kevin

 

as for the info on the tranny thank you a lot, and the brake info as well, very very informative... i will look into those.. I'm glad to hear that the tranny will hold it's own at stock hp levels.

As for the last comment about putting out a lot of HP...

Drifting is not about pure HP, it is about weight transfer, physics, and angle.

Hence why i want to keep a mostly stock drivetrain.

200hp is enough for me to slide it around any turn.

Any more suggestions that i may have forgotten to ask about.

please post up!

 

Yes like i said i can do it as well but its a hell of alot easyier wen u do have the power and not always have to jerk the car around. When u go around a long turn 200hp is not going to hold it that well bc ur speeding up as u go where you need more power faster u go to hold the drift. If your just sliding around small turns you will be ok but i like finding a long turn and see if i can complete it all the way through.
kevin

 

definetly look in to the urethane transmission mount though, i've even broke a couple rubber mounts with an auto and the 305 tbi gutless engine so it's worth the 25 bux as opposed to 10$. they only take like 15 minutes to replace once your car is lifted up but it still gets annoying having to do it numerous times.

also i dont have any personal experience but if you ever plan to upgrade the rear lower control arms, people say not to get dual polyurethane fixed ends as they dont flex enough, 1 end can be urethane the other needs to be a heim joint (i think thats the name i forget). if not it can cause suspension bindin sharp cornering tossing the rearend about violently ( this is the roundabout of what i've read on the boards).

also frame connectors i would most definetly invest in my neighbor scca races his 82 hardtop and he rebuilt it properly with urethane bushings through out, frame connectors so on and his actual sheet metal at the end of the roof line has cracked due to the deflection of the chassis, the unibodies are immensely weak.

although i know nothing about drifting so they may be a huge hindrence in your weight transfer. you may want to get an idea on that from someone else, i'm just speaking from the cars chassis integrity itself.

btw get some drift vids if you ever get a chance i love watching a thirdgen drift, i'm personally to much of a whimp still to play with mine (mostly to pricey for tires lol).

 

Heck if my 150hp 240 can do i think a 200hp camaro can. And the third gens weigh less too, except my coupe has 50/50 weight distribution so i guess it helps. What I think that kills it is the steering, your gonna have to countersteer a lot earlier since camaros steering radius isnt really the best, when i got in my camaro i was like WTF! lmao it was a big difference from the 240 but other than that I think your good.

 

Im just saying theirs a reason that the big time drifters have some serious hp.
kevin

 

This is one informative thread. hehehe.

 

Hows the car coming????

 

bought the camaro!!! will post pictures soon...

its a whole new world compared to the snap and style of the 240sx.

and about the hp for drift..

if you have 1,0000 hp whats the fun in challenging yourself to get the car sideways around any given corner.

I've done some insane stuff in a 240sx with a stock k/a, some stock cut springs, kyb GR2's, and a welded diff. (no moneys then)

it was my 800 dollar go out and learn to slide car.

since the camaro won't be seeing much highway...
anyone have an opinion on dropping something close to a 4.10 locked diff in it?

super spin!
that would definately help with guessing when the back will finaly snap out. as for now with the stock gears... idk what they are, but, it has a REALLY slow transition, and wants to grab until you have it completely out there and tached out.

i was wondering if there is also a way to widen the stance of the front tires,
for some reason, idk why i think this will work, but i think it will help me find the angle for the camaro easier. maybe some offset spacers? what was the offset for stock rims?

btw,
carb = EFI
both feel the same in response and everything.
carb didn't cut out at all, but has a different feel.
but will say, when it starts pumping...
carb builds quicker than a EFI which has consistency.

 

Well i never did say 1,000 but i did say 300. But i have 235/60/15 in the front and if i turn it all the way it will rub. Then as far as the gears go most RS models have 2:73 then i think the manuals have the 3:08's? not sure but its most likely one of them. I have the 3:73s and they work real good but i think 3:42s will work fine if you want to save a little on gas and stuff.
kevin

 

not worried on gas and such too much, and the higher gears in the back will help for sure. my diff stock is 3.73... gonna try to find a 4.10 out of a truck or something, the s10's and the trucks had those right? also found a nice T/A to steal parts from, and a bump to 16 inch meshie rims.. hope the offset is nice, they have a lip, so they gotta be good.

tandem drifting... 1984 camaro and 240sx. i bet that will turn heads.

 

In 82-92 or i dont ever really think they ever put 3:73s in? Mabey 69-73? I make sure the biggest they ever put in is 3:42s im about 99% positive.
kevin

 

you mean it has a 2.73 unless somebody already swaped them into a 3.73 and if you said it sucked for shifting, then im sure its only a 2.73.

 

You could get 3.73's in some trans ams. Not too sure of the year but i believe it came with the gov lock diff.

 

I pulled a rear end out of a 89 GTA it the yard and it was 3.73 in it. For the most part it looked like it never been out of the car be for till i pulled it. busted a cupple of nuckles and some blood from major rusted boltsand that baby was out. The oil in the diff was so nasty and thick. mettal and
the grossest smell ever came out of it. lol i was real quick to take it to jaws gears and have the LSD rebuilt and new gears. But ya.

 

3.23 gears were for the LG4 z28.. the low compression engine.

this is the HO z28 with the L69 engine.. that has 3.73 gears.

https://www.thirdgen.org/1984-chevy-camaro

lol.

but it still sucks and feels like it grips.
4.10 gearing + taller rims with low pro tires.
should get the job done i hope.

with that setup im hoping it makes it closer to the feel of a 240sx.

where it whips out easy as hell, or at least easier with less "want" for traction.

(edit: btw the way, dropped mini spool in it the day i got it, <3 the super locked up diff, but it chirps slow corners worse than the 240 ever did with it welded.... but since the spool is solid metal, the only weak point is the splines right?)

 

I wouldn't go with 4:10s myself, or a locker. There are few threads here about drifting, you should check them out. You'll be surprised and it'll actually save you a little work. I'll throw you a big one right here, suspension. My T/A was a totally different car after I got better shocks on it. What springs do you have?
The rears on these car are really weak. As for the front, spacers only kind of work, but there is a simple solution some of us have talked about on this forum.
If you plan on doing bushings you might want to try this upgrade as an early mod, along with adjustable strut mounts. Want to know more?
Look around a bit, and you'll find it.

 

wow my bad guys, never thought a camaro would come with 3.73 gears? hmm. sorry thats just me acting like i know stuff i guess haha looks like i need to freshen up on some of my history...

 

got tired of reading so if someone else already said this im sorry...Get a Disc brake 9 bolt BW rear. 9bolt.com is going again so u can put good gears in it and rebuild the LSD and it should take ur abuse alot better then the 10 bolt...initial cost will be a lil more then locking ur 10 bolt but once u start replacing 10bolt parts the 9 bolt would have been worth it, and its not like they are that expensive i see them for sale on here cheap all the time...

 

I Drift my Iroc at the track it gets side ways really easy just turn and and give the car to much gas at around 50 it will break loose and slide. The only Problem I have had so far is not having enough steering angle. There are some good articles on the subject on here just search more steering angle. As for modifing the car it isint really nessary Mine is just a stock tpi 350 with 700r4 transmission and a stock set of 3.73 gears and a pos locker that is worn out. I have no problems drifting