Okay, I'm having some trouble deciding which intake/head combo to go for with my 305. Full exhaust and 3.42/3.73 gears will already have been done. Here are my choices:

#1:
ZZ4 cam
World's S/R Torquer heads
Super Ram plenum, runners, etc.

#2:
ZZ4 cam
World's S/R Torquer heads
AS&M Large Tube Runners, port TPI

#3:
ZZ4 cam
Vortec heads
Vortec intake manifold
AS&M Large Tube Runners, port TPI

#4:
ZZ4 cam
Vortec heads
Vortec intake manifold
Super Ram plenum, runners, etc.

I've been recommended the Super Ram by some and was pretty happy with that, until others said it might be too much for a 305. I kinda want to change the TPI eventually, due to it's total drop-off on the top end. My problem with the Vortec hardware is that I'll have to get the heads modified to accept the ZZ4 cam.

Help!

 

Although the super ram has proven itself, the S/R torquers have not


I Think you'd be happier with vortec goodies

 

Thanks for the input.

Anyone else got a suggestion?

 

Yeah...what about #3 WITH The Superram? and don't say cost is the huge factor here, cause you can wait to do it right ;0....please also don't tell me that with the current #3 option you are going to use the stock runners....

 

Forgot to add Vortec goodies + Super Ram, thanks for that...and no, I wouldn't be using the stock runners, lol, I meant to put the AS&Ms in there. Heh, time isn't an issue, I don't even have the car yet...Thanks for the heads up.

 

With the money you are talking about spending you could put in a new 350 a good cam. You will have some money left ove to spend on some intake upgrades.

 

Or maybe he wants a fast street car and doesnt want to build up a whole 350 and just deal with what hes got?.....

I like the SR 305's because i have heard bad things about the 305 vortec heads. And the SR's havent proved themselves eh? Go PM baddest305 and go tell him that his 11 sec 305(13.1 w/o nitrous) with SR's dont work well. yeaaaaaaaaah thats what i thought

Im going SR heads, ZZ4, and hoggin out the lower base... maybe later get some SLP runners. How come no SLP option? Yea they are pains in the ****... but... AS&M are $$$.

 

Ok so now we're talking about a 13.1 second 305 huh?

Heads ported? How much does the car weigh? What kinda stall (if auto)?



And he'd be how much faster ditching the S/Rs?

The S/R's deffinatly haven't proven themselves.

 

I have yet to see any hard facts that the SR's suck. I have seen facts from a guy that put vortecs on his 305 and he didnt like them very much. I dont see whats so bad about the SR's? They are the best heads out there from what I can see.

 

S/Rs (STOCK REPLACEMENT)are the best heads out there?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.....

 

show me a head that is better out of the box then the SR. They are not stock replacements. 180cc intake, 1.94 intake valve, larger stiffer springs, better quality valves, and plenty of room to grow is hardly stock.

 

Nobody said they were the best heads out there, just that they are better than the stock TPI heads, which they are.

---swipes at screen--- Thanks for the cookie BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRP!

IMHO, the 305 wouldn't flow enough air to justify the Holley until near 7,000 RPM. Stick with the torque making products until the heart of the beast grows to 350+ cu in.

 

Go to:
www.summitracing.com
www.jegs.com
www.herbertperformance.com
www.flatlanderracing.com

Or any major automotive perofrmance resellers site

Search for "Cylinder head" Omit "S/R Torquer" and I have just shown you a head that is better out of the box than an S/R


If you want to argue with them being stock replacements, Take it up with WORLD

 

Also...

Excluding such important things as workmanship and quality (Which from my experience WORLD sucks at) try a flow number comparison so you can have some facts

 

SR's suck, plain and simple, you have little or no ground to stand on. There is virtually nothing that can be accomplished with a set of S/R's that cant be accomplished with a set of double humps, which is virtually what a set of S/R's are.

The limited availability of the old double hump casting caused world to make a "updated" version of the casting. Machinists were having a problem with stock castings that were prone to failure and cracking. This includes but is not limited to the 2.9 ford V6, doublehumps, and 305 heads. All world products did was jump on the band wagon and produced superior S/R castings for all of the above. Now pro-cylinder head of australia has jumped on the bandwagon with replacements for the TBI caprice and truck head, TPI 350 head, and even the L31's in iron.

So please don't refer to S/R's as a performance head, they are simply higher performance than what you got from the factory.

I built the JYD with a set of S/R's that I had laying around, it ran 11.90's on a 150 shot and 13.50's on all motor. In case you need some basic training in cylinderhead characteristics, a car will only normally pick up a second in the 1/4 mile with a 150 shot. This was very telling. On the dyno this car made 280 RW HP on motor after full tuning and 435 RW HP on the 150 shot.

When I previously ran these heads on a 415 cid motor it hit a wall at 4500 rpm that was like driving over a spike strip.

Don't even get me started on some sportsman II's

 

I'm sure I could get in on it if you did

 

Thanks a ton for all the suggestions and help everyone. I guess I'm gonna ditch the S/R torquers...

Any opinions on the Vortecs? I have heard some bad things about 'em, but I've also heard some good, but at least I'm closer to making a decision ...

 

then i would like to hear another alternative that will bolt up to a 305, work well without any maching like the SR's do cause im really really at a loss for words. SR's suck over all yes, but its the best 305 guys have.

 

Why not go with the Proline Vortecs? They have a small efficient port size, are reasonably priced and flow well...how the heads behave has just as much to do with the cam and intake/exhaust setup as with the heads themselves...

If there is an efficient setup that works well with a 350, use it on a 305...maybe just a smaller cam...

 

Right then, I think I'm gonna end up going with the Vortecs and Super Ram.


Does anyone know how much it'll cost to get the 350 heads milled to fix the compression ratio, and also to accept the ZZ4 cam?

 

Just be aware that a Superram will require alot of work in order to bolt up to a SDPC base which is required to run Vortec heads.

Read the below thread for hints, my experience that is.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=183473

 

The vortecs are definitely the best heads you have in your options. And then you'll have money left over to port them.

 

I was under the impression that the S/R 305's were the only option that us 305 guys had without going to an aluminum head. Do the Vortec heads bolt right up to the 305 block? I know that a stock set up heads off a 350 don't bolt right up because I have checked.

 

You can get both Vortec 305 (L30) and Vortec 350 (L31) heads. The 350 heads, however, perform much better, and while the 305 heads will bolt right up, it's wiser to buy a set of 350 heads and get 'em milled to fit (that's what I've been told, anyway).

Thanks a ton for the link Ominous, now I don't have to search for the topic ...

 

I don't understand how the S/R torquers can suck so bad if they have bigger valves and beefier springs than the stockers?

 

Do some research on the port and chamber designs of the Vortecs and you'll soon realize there's a lot more to flow and making power than simply adding bigger valves to a set of so-so heads.

 

Bingo

 

I just dont see how a head, made for trucks with a lower intake volume runner, smaller valves, larger chamber, and not to mention the modification you have to do to make them 50 state will out surpass a set of mild pocket ported SR's. It just doesnt add up. I know Vortec chambers are awesome for combustion, but to get them to flow as well as the SR's and then to mill the block for springs, shave the head for a smaller chamber, tap heads for screw in studs, and then add on top of that a new 500 dollar intake, and then have to cut into the exhaust to have the egr functional and to be 50 state? sounds like a lot of work for your average guy working on a 305 that will basicly end up being changed for a 350 or larger. As much as i want to build up my 305, i know that there are larger plans for what goes in next. For a simple "bolt on" head, you cant beat a set of SR 305's.

 

Thank you....that's why I decided NOT to go the Vortech route. Too expensive for what you get and what you have to do to them to work. I'm either going with the S/R torquers, or completely re-building my own. I also noticed that TPIS had a nice set of L98 heads that had all the tricks done. Later.

 

I'd go with 2 or 3 with a completely modded TPI because I like TPI and how it makes big block TQ and at RPMs that are right for the street.

 

2 or 3 what?

 

I would go with 2. Its similar to what I have (see sig) and it seems to work great. I'm having problems with my tranny but my car pulls 1.8x 60ft and ran an 8.98 1/8 with me having to hold half throttle in third. I have to also install the 24lb injectors and then i can use my tpis chip.

 

This is getting harder and harder for me to decide now, heh...The Vortecs with the Super Ram would seem to be a really good power-making combo, but it would take a looot of money and work to get it all to fit - have to mill the heads to accept the cam, get the 350 heads to fit the 305, and then the ton of work to get the Super Ram to match. I definitely want to change the TPI intake, because while having gobs of low-end torque is definitely fun, it's not the fastest kind of set-up. From what I've heard, the Super Ram would give me significant HP gains while not losing any torque...

I'll probably end up calling some shops around here to get an estimate on how much all the work is gonna cost. I may well end up just getting a set of S/R Torquers and having them ported...

Thanks a ton for all the help guys!

BTW Big Al, I'm WS6Tornado on the LS1 forums ...

 

Just do yourself a big favor, IMHO. Get a 350 and call it a day, hell even get an econo crate 350 for ~1000.

Your exactly right, the SR will keep all the low end grunt you will ever want and then rev freely to 6000rpms out running even a heavily modded LTR setup all day long, it may cost a bit more but well worth the investment in the longterm.

 

if im gunna spend the money, im gunna get a something a big larger then a 350... the 350 has been done over and over... hehehe. I want something new!!!

WS6tornado? cool! Yeah, i hang out on LS1 because TGO doesnt do stuff like AAG does!! AAG and TGO are my homes during work!!

 

Agreed....Vortec's only make sense in no smog situations...unsure if the SR's will flow with them, I doubt it though...but one thing to note...you can't make the Vortec;s "50-state" legal, just by tapping into the exhaust...there's no CARB exempt number for the "kit" that's sold...even it's it's functional and works, you're still not technically ready-to-go here in the Golden State.

 

I say ditch all the ideas, since it seems you're wanting to run with the dogs, and go with the LPE219 cam, SR intake and AFR's (or port something accordingly).

See this thread for a neckslapper.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=197334

 

Thanks for the opinion, but in that case I'd just get an L98 and swap in a T56 or T5. The only reason I'm opting for the 305 is that there's no way I'm not gonna have a manual...what would really take the cake would be if my tranny ends up breaking and I'd have to replace it, hehe...

To be frank, I hear so many people saying "just get a 350" and honestly, it's getting kinda old . If I'm gonna get a cheap 350 crate and change heads, cam, intake, pistons, and spend all that money, then why wouldn't I just get a 350 (or larger) that makes good power out of the box? I really want to be able to have a car that I can look at and say I did a ton of work on and is uniquely mine, not a slow car that I took and simply dropped a powerful engine in it. I'm not looking to do engine or tranny swaps...but thanks for the opinion anyway, and all the help you've given me in the thread .

By the way, emissions isn't any concern for me, there aren't any smog tests around here...oh, and Big Al, AAG on LS1 definitely rules .

 

Lol, I thought this talk was for a 350...not a 305.

Nothing wrong in trying to make a stout 305...but consider justa few things before you grab yor toolbox and pop the hood...

For the time it takes to change a cam on a TPI engine...you can R and R a different block into it.

After Spending a day or so bent over doing a cam install and heads..you'll fire it up, get on it and go "Wow, I shoulda had a 350" J/K...but consider the time you'll have as wll, invested in to going slower than the guys who do the same thing to a larger CI engine.

Don't factor in a stroker motor, theres addditional cost and work, that IMO, should just be put into a 400....
Oh well, everyone want's to be unique...slower...but unique

 

To be honest, the unique thing isn't really an issue to me, I just meant something that I can be proud of.

No matter how fast I am, there's always someone faster...if I just wanted something fast out of the box, I'd get an LT1, or even an LS1 like my bro/dad...personally I don't think my 305 will be very slow, unless you consider mid-high 11's "slow"...and I'm willing to put in all the money and work it takes to get it to be that fast. Heh, I won't even have the car for almost four more months, and I've got two full pages of mods figured out...

 

I totaly understand the whole 305 build up and i really wana do it too. Just to say i have a 305 that runs 12's. 11's can be done pretty easy with a little help from the magic spray or other power adder.

On a different note, I finaly hooked up my aldl software to my old desk top, made a computer stand for my garage, and now have a garage diagnostic center for all OBDI cars!!! how sweet is that!. I scaned my engine today... i think i need to talk to some of the more crayzer guys over at the DIY board. Im still tossing around the idea of a totaly different engine... something that hasnt been done before or something that has never done in a total package. I want people to be like "Dam, I wana car like Big Als!!" hehehe.