I am wondering if the setup i want to purchase will be bad for my car. i want to get some Dart "iron Eagle" heads that have 230CC intake runners 64cc chambers 2.08/1.60 valves with a mild came(420-440 lift) and with a pretty much stock TPI setup exept injectors and maybe runners later one. all of this on my 400 would it be a bad setup. id thing the cam and TPI are made more for lower end while the heads are made for upper end HP what do you guys think? also i can get a set of the same ones with 215cc intake runners and 64cc chambers w/ 2.05/1.60 valves, i am only going to have about 9.-9.5:1......let me know what you think

 

Waaaaaaay more head than you need and will probably hurt performance.

Look into a 180cc intake runner size head with the can you're using.

 

The cam is all wrong. Use the lpe 219 at a minimum.

 

Listen to Mike. The trick to a good setup is to ensure it is all balanced. What you are proposing is totally unbalanced and will result in a poor performing engine like Mike said.

Big port heads are for high rev/high HP setups. With the stock TPI, you will not be high revving or high HP...it's setup for TQ. A head like you are proposing would kill the velocity when you try to match it up to a TPI intake.

Big port heads would be better suited to a Miniram AND not the basic Miniram...you'd need the BIG Miniram with the 1206 ports. And that is for a SERIOUS engine that is probably just barely streetable.

With TPI, even the aftermarket bases are going to be hard pressed to be matched beyond a 195cc intake (and with a considerable amount of grinding to boot). Beyond that, you'll need to have the intake ports "built up" and then reworked.

To give you an idea of what a "well balanced" engine can do, there was a pair of guys that use to be on TGO called "Ski_dwn_it" and "CoolCorkVette1". They were each running similar setups: 406s with AFR 190s (regular out-of-the-box...no special competition porting), a Superram (no special work) and a TPIS solid roller lifter (242/242 @.050). SDI was running sub-11s and just kissing 10s and CCV was in the 10s.

Unfortunately, they are no longer at TGO because they rubbed a few too many people the wrong way. But in spite of what any of their critics may say against them, I think all would agree they defintiely had a very well-balanced setup that ran very efficiently.

 

im looking for a set of cheap heads that i can put on, i want to barely make it into the 12's but i dont want to go crazy(or bottom of the 13's), im probably just going to get a mild TPI cam(any suggestions?) id have to get a non roller tho. too pricey., about i dont want to go over 10:1 and 25# injectors, maybe some SLP runners and a little bit of porting. 1 3/4 headers,Holley AFPR, and that is about it, but the heads i want to get, i want them to be pretty cheap, those heads i listed above i can get fully assembled for 800 bucks and thats on the border so anything less would be better. what about some Dart heads i think i saw some on e-bay for around 600 with 180cc or so. not posative tho. would those be any good for my engine?

 

Go with a set of 180cc Pro Topline LIGHTNING- 23 Degree Cast Iron Cylinder Heads.

Excellent bang for the $

As for the cam, remember Cubes help absorb some of the cam so u can go bigger with a 406 then a 350 and still be street able.

I'd recondmend a comp cams XR276HR if your going rollor and something along that duration if your going flat tap.

 

How about Trick Flow's 23 degree,195cc intake runner,64cc CNC-profiled combustion chambers. These are what I am thinking about going with. Anyone out there using Trick Flow heads?These heads are in the same price range as AFR's @ about $1250.00

 

If your going to build a tpi motor make sure you use an aftermarket base. With that being said I think I would go the vortec route forcing myself to get an aftermarket base and ending up with a good set of heads for cheap. A good flat tappet cam for a tpi 400 would be somthing along the lines of a comp xe262. Vortec heads+vortec tpi base= $900, Use the recomended valve springs (from cam manufacturer) for whatever cam you choose.

 

i never would have said this,that is way too much HEAD.you will have 0 velocity,stay around 170-195,you will be happy.

 

Will i be able to run 12's with a set of heads you guys refer? even with mild cam and slight TPI upgrades? and obviously ill be working on traction problems. im only looking for a cheap set of heads like 600 bucks or so maybe 7. plus anyone have the specs on the cams (lift/lift dur/dur)

 

Yes, but not the CnC heads, I have just the out of the box 23* heads, I love em. Personally, I think that the CnC would be a waste of money unless you are wanting extreme HP from the engine, over kill on a 13 second street car IMHO.

 

Morley, what cam are you running with those heads? What does the compression come to when using the 64cc combustion chambers? My car is a 92 Z28 with L98 350.Thanks

 

Guys,
Sorry to jump in on this conversation but im just taking out my low miles(25000)305 TPIengine and 700R4 to change to T56 manual.
What i want to do is a few more mods to the engine while its out.
Ive been using it with the following combination.
Dart II Sportsman Jr heads 1.94"/1.5",58 cc chambers and 171cc intake port volume.
Ive got a comp cams compucam(cant remeber spec but i suspect very mild)
Afpr
Airfoil and SLP cold air induction
All emmissions removed
headmans with a 3"slp system(no Cat)
1;5 roller rockers
Mildly ported plenum but completely stock TPI except for Hypertech chip
Is there anything else I should do before putting it back in,
ont really want to go to the expense of new TPI set up,but what about inlet manifold and runners.
thanks a lot
PM

 

Trickflow sells a kit in summit that comes with a set of alum. 195cc heads with 64cc chambers, comes with cam+lifters, pushrods, 1.5 ratio rocker arms, double roller timing chain, thrust button, cam locking plate , head bolts and gasket set. i like this setup because it pretty much comes with everything, exept i noticed the secs on the optional cams first one is:
210/216 440/454 and 110* i read in a hotrod magazine that lobe seperation shouldnt be less than 112* and the dur. exeed 220.
this first setup is rated at 350hp 400Tq with RPM intake and 600 Holley.
second choice is this.
228/234 480/494 and 110* this one is rated at 420hp and 395Tq with a victor jr. intake and 750 holley. are these cams too unrealistic for the head setup? let me know guys.
first kit is $1430. second is $1530.

 

The cams are flat tappet, not rollers, right?

Jake

 

correct, non roller not too bad of a setup for what you get.

 

Yea, it sounds like a really good deal. Especially when you consider that a pair of AFR heads will cost you about that much by themselves.

An added benefit is you can install all the parts at one time; saving you from having to tear into the engine a second time.

If you bought and installed the heads first, then later the cam, etc., (or vice-versa) you'd be doing almost the same work twice.

Jake

 

But i dont think the cam's they supply are good for TPI setups.....

 

Do you know the specs on the camshafts they offer with the kit? I'd like to see the numbers. Who grinds them?

Jake

 

check 6 posts up, its mine, it has both came grinds, they have other ones but they arent for street at all, trickflow sells the kit so i am guessing its theres.?

 

jake- do you have any times for your car?

 

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Yep that 228 on a 110 is a bit much for a TPI engine.

I did, however, run a CompCams XE 212 on 110 in a 355 TPI and it ran really well. I suspect that it was due to the short duration.

Jake

 

The only times that I have are the times that I run WOT southbound on I35E running away from other cars that jump on me.

I don't drag race it.

Jake

 

hmm maybe if i call summit they'll throw in a different cam for less or the same price.....i bet they would.

I havnt raced my car.....YET. but i sometimes do 140 down some longer backroads around here......too dangers only did it like twice, and that was with my 305 5-speed with exhaust broken off at the convert(punched out) and 2 other passengers.....it was suprisingly quick, it had a 160 thermo. in it, i think it might have a cheesy hypertech chip in it or something, because sometimes it sparknocks, now it does more since its alot colder and i put the 195 thermo in. hmmmm. other than that its stock, now i have an edelbrock exhaust on it.

 

You know, I've got a friend who always tries to buy on the cheap. Everything he orders is based on the cheapest he can get it for.

Now, when I comes to camshafts, well, cheap won't cut it.

The grinding of a camshaft, the tolerances, has to be extremely precise. I meant EXTREMELY PRECISE.

The equipment to hold such tight tolerances is very, very expensive and must constantly calibrated to maintain those tolerances. And then there's the guy who's pushing the buttons.

I don't think there is any other part of the engine that has tolerances as tight as does the camshaft.

That's one of the reasons that the Winston Cup and NASCAR boys
only run cams from the biggest camshaft names in the business, primarily CompCams and Crane. I saw something in one of the mags recently that said all but one of the starters of this year's Daytona 500 ran CompCams products. It didn't specify camshafts, but the point was well taken.

In addition, the front runners will only allow their camshafts to be ground by a specific individual at the camshaft company.

I suspect the cheaper camshafts, and there are lots of them out there, don't hold tight tolerances. So with them, you'll save a few dollars, but you never know what you're getting.

I'm suspect of a camshaft that comes in a kit unless I know who ground it. Even a TPIS ZZ9 camshaft that I had checked on a computerized camshaft checker was almost 4 degrees off from the advertised duration @ .050 and .6 off in LSA

That was the reason I had it checked, I didn't know who ground it and I was suspicious.

So, remember, head manufacturers generally don't grind camshafts; they provide specs to a company and that company does the grinding.

I don't believe that Edelbrock or Trick Flow Specialities or TPIS, for that matter, grind their own camshafts. It's cheaper for them to out-source the cam grinding.

One other thing, only a couple of companies provide the cores. I believe Crane is one of them, supplying cores to most of their competitors.

I only said all that as a precaution when opting to ask for a different camshaft in the kit. I believe in saving $$ when I can, I'm just particular WHERE I save it.

Just my thoughts.

Jake

 

well, youv also gotta understand that im a backyard mechanic im not looking for 100% specific parts, im not going to spend 1000 bucks on a camshaft for my nascar...ect. im not arguing with what you had to say, i am just saying if i was all out racing my car then id probably worry about that sort of thing, but all im looking is sorta for a daily (summer) driver and ground pounder on the weekends, or what not. i mean my father bought a crane "fireball" camshaft for the vette he bought my mother. and twice one of the lobes wore down to nothing on the camshaft. ( i think the valve springs were wrong for the application) but he ended up buying a roller cam for it. and that solved the problem. all i really care is that it does the job. i guess. im not gonna buy a cam and whip out my gauges to check it but if i did, id only check it for the heck of it. thats about it. unless it was very far off. then id start to wonder do you understand what im talking about? plus buying trickflow alum. heads isnt exactly going cheap but its not spending tons of money. i know obviously they sell heads 2-3k and more for specific/ custom heads. but its interesting to know that the cam was off that much.

 

If you noticed, my comments were directed toward camshafts, not cylinder heads.

There's got to be reason that package is so inexpensive (notice I did not use the word "cheap"). Must be saving some $ somewhere otherwise where's the profit margin?

If you buy a set of excellent cylinder heads, which the TFS heads are, but a Brand X camshaft, well . . .

Do what you want; I was only trying to help.

Jake

 

well the heads alone were 970 bucks, so i dont see where they were at all expensive, they are pretty inexpensive, if you ask me then for the extra 500ish you get the cam/lifters double roller timing chain, headbolts, pushrods, and gasket kit. so i think it comes out right in my opinion. also i wasnt biting your head off, i was just simply stating my opinion. and i said throw in a different cam for cheaper or the same price. just as long as the duration is lower and lobe seperation at about 112 i dont care. but i do appreciate your opinion.