After cruisin the local strip for a few races, I got very few bites, but beat whoever I came across, when I was about to go home and meet up w/my fiance. As I'm going down the feeder, I catch a light and see two cars on the both outside lanes - both mustangs...and both revving their engines at each other....and with one empty lane for me right in between them!!!! They continue to rev their motors at me this time, and I just sit there and wait for the light, while ready to launch. The light turns green and for about 1 1/2 seconds it was even - then I checked my rear view mirror they were both FAR behind me by the time I hit 70. Good stuff! Then, the next light, a willing mustang is on the right of me, and a beautiful GN is on the left. The GN guy said he went down to the street where they race all the time (ever hear of Rankin RD?) and says he won every single race. The light turns green and I beat both of these guys too! It's a good feeling and an honor to show these guys how beautiful an IROC's tailights are!

 

uh there is a forum for this kind of crap.

Post it there please.



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-86 IROC

-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

Whoops! I'm sorry Guido. I just looked for my post on the street racing board and it wasn't there....I guess I accidentally posted it here on the tpi board! Sorry!

 

lol ok.
No problem.

 

What MOds do oyu have?

 

ok this is a good thing - that way now we can justify this being on the tpi board

ZZ4 motor, 3.73 gears stock tpi, afpr, k&n, drag radials, tb coolant bypass, shift kit, 1850 stall, billet servo, hypercrap chip, etc. I'm still waiting for my ported SR to be put on to

 

Then that regal was not a Grand National, or if it was a Grand NAional it was completely stock. A GN that has nothing more than a Hotwire kit for the fuel pump, an adjustable waste gate, and a free flow exhaust is a low 13sec car. IF hes out looking for races he has more than that.

I am not saying you didnt outrun one, but that guy lied to you about winning all the races unless he was racing Civics.


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89 Trans Am Turbo 3.8L All stock 43,000 miles #1053 of 1555

Past Thirdgen:
86 Trans Am w/ built 355TPI with SLP goodies and too much other stuff to List. One sweet *** car, wish I would have had a good enough Job to pay insurance on three cars so I could keep it, but for a 89 Turbo Trans Am w/ Low miles, I think I made the right choice!

 

And this one time ... in band camp....

LOL

Stock TPI beating a GN

 

Why isnt that possible? I drove a brand new one in 1986 (yes, it was intercooled) and it was flat out a complete DOG! The LG4 car we ended up buying was hardly slower than the GN we drove, and ever since then my dad has been trying to provoke one into a race and none of them will race. I know what I see some of them run at the track, but I have seen some run 14's too so its entirely possible IMO.

 

Great, another post full of and flames.

 

 

Do you think itsa just magic when they put them in trans ams that they all of the suddeen run 13.5?
No they are a 13.9 stock car.
I would not think that is a dog at all.

)

 

I COMPLETELY agree. There are two things that determine a cars track time... 1. the car 2. the driver. If you've seen GN run at the track and they were slow, it was probably driver error. I just can't see a flow restricted STOCK TPI beating a GN. Maybe he did... but then again, the GN driver was probably a ****ty driver.

 

Jeesh! What is everyone trying to prove? It sounds like everyone is trying to either say I'm lying, or discredit my races. Hrrmmm...I'm dissapointed in you guys! lol

Let me clarify a few things for you guys so that there is no mistake:

1. The car I raced was a Grand National - NOT a Regal...the Grand National was nowhere near stock (I took a little peak under the hood myself )

2. My car beat the GN (modified) on the street.

3. In the 1/4, I run a 12.9.

4. Why again is it that people are trying to make me out like a liar or discredit my races? I guess I just don't understand.

1/4 time does not totally dictate what will happen on the street. As I have mentioned before, I mainly race at most to 70 mph. A LOT can happen from then to the end of the 1/4. Agreed? I have really good low end (in my opinion) , and in my book, a high 12 is more than plenty to give any moderately modified GN a good spankin - Especially if it's from 0-60. It's possible the GN could be low 12's and I could get it on the street because we won't go all the way to 120 or so.
In any case, I know how to launch my car properly, how to feather it, etc. Most just like to mash it to the ground off the line. Naturally, there will still be some of you out there that cannot/will not believe an ounce of this, even though I have NO reason why you wouldn't. All I can say, is come on down to Texas and see for yourself! There is this one little TTA in particular that I would like to race and show him what the GN I raced saw (hint: the owner has posted a few things above)

[This message has been edited by 89IROCZZ4 (edited November 03, 2001).]

 

Not the same engine exactly either, at least it wasnt done by the same company. And I know a couple people who are running 13.9-14.2 with stock TTA's so I wouldnt say they all run 13.5 either. Theres something called production variance... seems like every time an argument comes up about fastest factory stock car everyone takes the absolute best time anyone has ever run with a certain car and all of a sudden ALL of those cars are supposed to run that time (just for AcceldZ) The car I drove was definitely not a 14 second car, it was slower than molasses, no question about it. If there was something amiss with it, I wouldnt know... it was brand spankin new with 8 miles on it, and there was no check engine light.

As for driver error, yea thats entirely possible but not with me driving the GN, I know how to drive. I've beaten an LS1 at the track with my 15 second TA and have timeslips to prove it so anything is possible.

 

YOu are right, Theengine in the Trans Am has some GNX mods such as the lareger intercoller, a little better heads, a lower compression piston due to the smaller compression ratio. Though thanks to the better Eprom and intercooler the TTA gets 16.5psi of boost from the factory. Other than that its the same.
Buick did the Grand National true, but ASC did the GNX and the TTA modifications. GM didnt want to invest in the tooling to make 1555 TTAs, it just wast practical.
NOw the G-body was still a full fram car in the time of the GN. SO we cant touch it off the line if both cars are stock. Though its not uncommon to see the drivers that actually race their GNs to be in the 1.6-1.7 sec range for their 60' time.

Just some facts about the cars.
NOw lets talk about this race. SInce I know so much about the Turbo 6's capabilities in both the TTA and the GN/GNX it is usally hard for me to believe a 12.9 sec car of any kind would actually beat one that is out looking for races. I mean $1500 puts them in the 12.5 sec range easily.
THough if you beat one, and like was said driver error and what not can happen, COngradulations, but I would not fly the flag too high because there are TOO MANY OF THEM OUT THERE THAT WILL SHUT YOU DOWN.
I think the web site is www.gnttype.org where thay have proven formulas from everywere from low 13 sec. to high 10sec cars. THis is usually done with just cam swaps and bolt ons. I mean haveint the forced induction setup from the factory really helps.

I am adding this to
http://www.gnttype.org/members/times.html
I tell you we dont have a list like that for thirdgen.org All of these times are V6's


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89 Trans Am Turbo 3.8L All stock 43,000 miles #1053 of 1555

Past Thirdgen:
86 Trans Am w/ built 355TPI with SLP goodies and too much other stuff to List. One sweet *** car, wish I would have had a good enough Job to pay insurance on three cars so I could keep it, but for a 89 Turbo Trans Am w/ Low miles, I think I made the right choice!

[This message has been edited by Kyle F (edited November 04, 2001).]

 

ITEM 1 - Most drivers suck at launches. Your car imight be fast in the right hands;

ITEM 2 - There's no such thing as a "stock" car (see Max's post);

ITEM 3 - Never assume anything.

ITEM 4 - This kind of disbelief is what caused all the flaming when ODB was posting on the boards. He was running very fast, and most of you just didn't catch on that he wasn't volunteering a lot of information about his car. His definition of "stock" was a bit of a stretch, however.


It's always fun to take out the friend's '68 Camaro P/S car and find one of those "fast" GNs looking for a sucker (I never see any TTAs around here, but the result would likely be even more fun.) About the time the Camaro's front wheels settle back to the ground and you're 150' ahead of them, their mouths are open almost wide enough for you to slip it in and "enjoy the ride"...

(See RULE 3)

So a "fast" car got beat by a N/A car again, "WAAH! WAAH! No Fair!"

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Later,
Vader
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If you want to beat the World, it might reach up and pull you down...
Adobe Acrobat Reader

[This message has been edited by Vader (edited November 04, 2001).]

 

wow this thread blew up. Why all the fighting. He may have beaten that GN, though i'll tell you this, the guy probably couldn't launch worth ****. If this car was "modded" 12.9's are NOTHING for that car. $1500 worth of mods can u get u 11's NO PROBLEM, hell $800 got my buddy's TTA into the 11's(11.99@112.5 1.62 60')and thats with a stock internals, untouched intake, basically he bumped the boost to 22#'s some race gas slicks springs K&N filter chip and a transbrake, thats all...with all that potential its no wonder why i'm going with a turbo 3.8 for my engine swap

I've seen GN's run mid 14's due to the fact the owners couldn't drive. I've also seen bone stock TTA's pull off 13.3's, but i'm sure they've run 14's as well.



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Check out MyGTA Nicknamed:The Big Red Machine
***AOL IM ClarkeMustGoNow***
Moderator at www.transamgta.com
"What does not kill us only makes us stronger"

Tony

 

Bottom Line... you beat a GN because of driver error, not because of your car. But hey, I guess a win is a win.

 

Hey, good job on your wins... Wether you beat someone b/c of driver error or with better power(faster car), whatever, he was still racing you.

Kyle F, have you even ran your car personally at a track yet? And what is this hotwire fuel pump mod? I know of some DSM turbo cars that talk of that mod.

I lost to a N/A dodge neon last night, partially(mostly) due to driver error on my fault, but I still lost. Talk sh*t, the neon runs 14.6 @95mph N/A 4 cylinder, and I run 14.6 @ 96mph. I bet he would humble many close to stock 3rd gens at a street light. A win is a win as long as the other driver was actually racing you. Whatever happened to ODB?

One more thing, not everyone that mods their car, get more performance out of it, look at the sigs on this board, there are plenty of 3rd gens with heads/cam/etc. running 14s and high 13s. I know of a DSM(talon) 2.0 turbo car, upgraded turbo, down pipe, 20 psi boost, etc. claims 13sec and should be 13 sec, but I gave it to him in my car(mid 14s). With all those mods he gained less than .5 sec over the same car from the factory.

My car will be classified as "stock" as long as the stock appearing TPI(stock runners) is on it and stock iron heads regardless of how much material is missing on the inside.

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14.62@96mph headers, muffler, chip, ghetto stuff, duct tape
89 GTA 305 TPI 5 speed 3.42 gears

 

i "think" so it gets 14 volts(or something like that) but i'm not sure, i think thats what i read somewhere...

 

OK,....rule #1, its lame to compare internet 1/4 times,everyone is from a different tracks,weather ,elevation ,etc.Thats why when someone flames somebody with a"your car should run...... blah" kinda statement they look kinda dense.A low 13 car could be a 14.0 car at a different track and weather conditions.
89IROCZZ4..... I believe a lot of the flack you are catching comes from the fact that you are quoting G-TEC times,it is quite a neat little toy,but most people dont take it as a "true" ET ,as compared to a timeslip.Right or wrong ,thats just the way most people percieve it.

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86 z28 zz4 ssm lift bars ,3.73 simesed runners and a traction deficient 13.707@101.02,on a 2.16 60 ft on 295/50/15 junk street rubber ,best MPH run 13.82@102.7,69 AMX,390 4 speed sticky tires and other stuff..12.94@102.3

 

So the "hotwire" mod pretty much causes the pump to "pump" more fuel right? Seems pointless if you aren't starved for fuel to begin with and the pressure reg. will limit the flow of fuel anyways.

I don't know doesn't make sense to me, maybe someone else will make it clearer to me.

 

Yes the Hotwire kit basically runs a hotwire from your alternator to your relay so that the Full pupm is getting a constant supply of 14V to the pump so it is pumping at its maximum capability at all times the car is on. This way you get more fuel out of your stock pump and therefore the boost cpapbilites of your car are increased.

Oh yea and my track time was done on a G-tech on original Gatorbacks. Launch with 0psi boost brake reved to 1200rpm. Anymore and the the tires would spin. Netted a 13.4 I forget what the MPH was because I didnt really care aslong as I got the 13.5 as advertised.
I fgure though that with some DOT drag radials so I can launch with some boost(makes all the difference on these cars) and a little more fine tuning and I should be able to get a true 13.1-13.2 at the track all stock excpet for some better tires. I figure my MPH should be in the what 100-105 range?

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89 Trans Am Turbo 3.8L All stock 43,000 miles #1053 of 1555

Past Thirdgen:
86 Trans Am w/ built 355TPI with SLP goodies and too much other stuff to List. One sweet *** car, wish I would have had a good enough Job to pay insurance on three cars so I could keep it, but for a 89 Turbo Trans Am w/ Low miles, I think I made the right choice!

 

throw a trans brake on there with some radial, HELLO 12's

 

Then it doesnt count as a track time.

 

I think the main problem here is that most everyone thinks you can't break into the 13's with a stock TPI unit, and therefore wouldn't be anywhere close to a lightly modded GN. However, I'm running low 13's with mine, and if you read the post he said his car runs a 12.9 - not too shabby.

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Black 88 GTA L98
271 RWHP, 344 RWTQ
13.406 @ 103.72 MPH
ZZ4 bottom end, Edelbrock 6085 heads, LT4 HOT cam, GMPP 1.6 RR's, ported stock TPI, SLP 1 3/4" headers, no cat, Dynomax cat-back, Custom PROM (by me), in desperate need of stall converter
E.T.F.A Treasurer

[This message has been edited by Scott 88 GTA (edited November 04, 2001).]

 

True... but I have actually found them to be fairly accurate, when lack of traction is not an issue - and of course the mph is always off becuase of instantaneous mph instead of an averaged mph at the track....

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1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

 

I ran a 86 GN at RED RIVER raceway north or shreveport LA. and spanked him in my 97 formula.

Of course he was running 17.?? lol

man I freaked when I looked in my rear view

even with the best mods on a dog base engine the car will still be a dog.

 

Nobody said that it was a bad time, and I didnt say there was no way he won,. If you read the post you will see that once he said what time he was running I just said be careful how much you brag before every GN owner lines up to bust your *** in every race you have for now on basically.
I am just defending the Turbo 6 and saying look They are a lot faster than anyone would think till they see it. I get so tired of people saying they beat a GN and have no honest clue to what a GN can really do.
My honest opinion is that he did beat one. All be it the dude lied about winning every race if he cant run better than a 12.9 because a lot of cars can do that, but he won none the less.

 

I got into a highway race with a GN on the way to the drags last year,shoulda got a clue when i could hear the turbo whistle whenever he goosed it!! LOL,i thought my engine fell out!! talk about getting a spanking.He showed up at the strip later that day,running 12.40's.

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86 z28 zz4 ssm lift bars ,3.73 simesed runners and a traction deficient 13.707@101.02,on a 2.16 60 ft on 295/50/15 junk street rubber ,best MPH run 13.82@102.7,69 AMX,390 4 speed sticky tires and other stuff..12.94@102.3

 

Kyle...Be careful about bragging about bringing down a GN? Are you serious? Of course I'm gonna brag about it! I'm proud of racing such a car as a GN and taking it down! I am well aware of the capabilities of the GN - I fully believe the guy when he said he beat everyone he raced that night...By the way, did you know that Rankin is just a street where car guys hang out to race? Remember this: If you are running ANY kind of a low 13 or hi 12, you are automatically one of the faster guys on the street. Are there faster cars out there? Of course! But 95% of them run a lot slower.

 

$ for $ a turbo 3.8 would whoop a LT1. Again as stated its mostly the driver, or lack thereof, when it comes to GN's TTA's or hell even C5 vettes(i've seen some C5's pull mid 15's at a sea level track, because the drivers can't drive). Just because a few ran ****ty times doesn't mean they are ALL slow, hell i've beaten a GN in my GTA which only runs high 13's. If that GN driver knew how to drive he would've smoked me...but that just proves the car isn't EVERYTHING

 

Damn i go away for the weekend and chaos breaks out. I'm moving this to the theo. and street racing forum where it is more apropriate.
First, my take though.

Not every GN out there is an 11 second car. Yes they are very easy to get there, but i'd say the VAST majority of them are only lightly touched and are low 13 second cars on sticky tires and high test. Just like there are plenty of people that mod the wazoo out of their TPI only to barely run 13s, or to run a lot worse than it should, there are equally as many GN owners who have neer read the 'recipes' at gnttype.org and don't even know how to use their potential.
So basically, to say that a 12.9 second f-body would automatically lose to a GN is pure rubbish and simply shows that you don't have much real world experience. Even among fast turbo buicks it's possible for the tune to go way off on you. One time a while back i was talking to a guy with a TTA at the track, having a helluva time keeping his ignition from breaking up. It was an 11 second car to be sure, but no matter what he did his combination of chip and parts couldn't keep the fire lit and he was dragging *** to high 12s/13s.
And driver error counts as much for the win as a slow car. I don't care if you have an 11 second turbo buick at the track on your MTs. Take out the thrasher and the 118 and the oppurtunity to effectively stage/build boost and it's a whole new ballgame. Or what about during the summer. Thats my FAVORITE part about the turbo buick crowd. you don't see them at the street races or the track too often between may and september. I mean, after all, what fun is racing when you've only tuned it for optimum weather for your intercooled boost. Again, not that it can't be done, it's just the vast majority of TR drivers would rather not give up all that ET for the loss of efficiency in the hot air.

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Ed Maher - Moderator @ The TPI & Carb Boards
92 Z28 Convertible - Quasar blue / Tan top
305 TPI A4 2.73 - 14.7 @ 93.6
Stock except ported plenum and dual cats
-=ICON Motorsports=-

- Definitely prototypes, high powered mutants of some kind. Too weird to live, too cool to die