Is this a running rich?
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Is this a running rich?
To me, I see high HC and higer CO. I think I'm running rich based on much reading. Can someone tell me if I'm right, do these numbers reflect a rich condition?
Thanks.
15 mph / 1372 rpm
CO2% = 13.1
O2% = 2.7
HC = 101 – max 108
CO% = .31 – max .71
NO = 779 – max 767
25mph / 1357 rpm
CO2% = 12.4
O2% = 3.1
HC = 83 – max 83
CO% = .16 – max .71
NO = 639 – max 767
Thanks.
15 mph / 1372 rpm
CO2% = 13.1
O2% = 2.7
HC = 101 – max 108
CO% = .31 – max .71
NO = 779 – max 767
25mph / 1357 rpm
CO2% = 12.4
O2% = 3.1
HC = 83 – max 83
CO% = .16 – max .71
NO = 639 – max 767
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 1
From: CT
Car: 86 T/A, 83 Z/28
Engine: 5.0 TPI, 350 2 X 4 bbl
Transmission: 4 speed auto, 5 speed manual
Axle/Gears: 3.23 posi, 3.73 std
Re: Is this a running rich?
Well unfortunetly its hard to tell based on emmissions readings. Reason is say your plugs are shot you could have a perfect A/F ratio but the burn may be so inefficient as result of the plugs that excessive emissions are the result. Now being that thoes numbers all don't look too bad im guessing its probably a cat on its way out when was the last time it was replaced? It might just need a good tune up though. If im reading your test correctly you only failed the NOX at 15 MPH by a small margin.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Re: Is this a running rich?
Well unfortunetly its hard to tell based on emmissions readings. Reason is say your plugs are shot you could have a perfect A/F ratio but the burn may be so inefficient as result of the plugs that excessive emissions are the result. Now being that thoes numbers all don't look too bad im guessing its probably a cat on its way out when was the last time it was replaced? It might just need a good tune up though. If im reading your test correctly you only failed the NOX at 15 MPH by a small margin.
Cats are new, plugs have about 2k on them. I wonder if old vacuum hoses with old connections could be so old that maybe vacuum could leak out through dryness cracks. Thanks for the input.
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 1
From: CT
Car: 86 T/A, 83 Z/28
Engine: 5.0 TPI, 350 2 X 4 bbl
Transmission: 4 speed auto, 5 speed manual
Axle/Gears: 3.23 posi, 3.73 std
Re: Is this a running rich?
What about the O2 sensor? According to GMs maintenance schedule there supposed to be changed every 30k i believe but rare are. Have you checked your timing lately? It could be a vacuum leak. Is it a MAF or MAP TPI system?
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Re: Is this a running rich?
thanks again. yeap, 02 is new (AC Delco), timing is at 6* with the EST disconnected. It's a MAP TPI. IAC and MAP new also. Somehow I keep thinking I need to adjust AFPR with the free flowing exhaust. It's currently at 42psi,
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Re: Is this a running rich?
thanks again. yeap, 02 is new (AC Delco), timing is at 6* with the EST disconnected. It's a MAP TPI. IAC and MAP new also. Somehow I keep thinking I need to adjust AFPR with the free flowing exhaust. It's currently at 42psi, but then it might make it run more rich or maybe, to your point since it's hard to tell by the numbers, it could be lean and maybe does need increased fuel pressure.
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 1
From: CT
Car: 86 T/A, 83 Z/28
Engine: 5.0 TPI, 350 2 X 4 bbl
Transmission: 4 speed auto, 5 speed manual
Axle/Gears: 3.23 posi, 3.73 std
Re: Is this a running rich?
Well I kinda doubt that an exhaust system could throw things off that much although being a MAP style TPI system it is more sensitive. If you had acess to a scanner it would be a good deal easier to troubleshoot as things like a vacuum leak would most likely show up as a low IAC count stuff like that although I do believe i have a piece of information that might be of service to you and that is putting the car into "field service mode." This is typically done when a car has problems but no code exists. What it does is it makes your check engine light tell you if the cars in open or closed loop operation and also if its too rich or too lean (atleast from the computers perspective). It does this by flashing a code much like check engine codes. To represent open loop operation the check engine light will flash 2.5 times per second. When in closed loop it flashes once per second. Also while flashing once per second the on time of the check engine light will vary with the O2 sensor reading. During that one second period if the check engine light is off most of the time its lean. If its on most of the time its rich. This is pretty useful as A you may be stuck in open loop operation for some reason which could cause poor emissions for obvious reasons and B also gives you an indication of at least how the computer thinks it running in terms of rich or lean. You can also compare this result to the color of your spark plugs to confirm if the motors running as rich or lean as the comp thinks it is. To enter field service mode simply start the car and then ground the diagnostic terminal as you would if you were going to pull codes. However it is important to ground the diagnostic terminal AFTER you start the car as you may damage the ECM otherwise.
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Re: Is this a running rich?
Well I kinda doubt that an exhaust system could throw things off that much although being a MAP style TPI system it is more sensitive. If you had acess to a scanner it would be a good deal easier to troubleshoot as things like a vacuum leak would most likely show up as a low IAC count stuff like that although I do believe i have a piece of information that might be of service to you and that is putting the car into "field service mode." This is typically done when a car has problems but no code exists. What it does is it makes your check engine light tell you if the cars in open or closed loop operation and also if its too rich or too lean (atleast from the computers perspective). It does this by flashing a code much like check engine codes. To represent open loop operation the check engine light will flash 2.5 times per second. When in closed loop it flashes once per second. Also while flashing once per second the on time of the check engine light will vary with the O2 sensor reading. During that one second period if the check engine light is off most of the time its lean. If its on most of the time its rich. This is pretty useful as A you may be stuck in open loop operation for some reason which could cause poor emissions for obvious reasons and B also gives you an indication of at least how the computer thinks it running in terms of rich or lean. You can also compare this result to the color of your spark plugs to confirm if the motors running as rich or lean as the comp thinks it is. To enter field service mode simply start the car and then ground the diagnostic terminal as you would if you were going to pull codes. However it is important to ground the diagnostic terminal AFTER you start the car as you may damage the ECM otherwise.
Actually, I do own a scanner, I'll check see if I can access what your talking about through it. I think I spent around $300 or $400 so maybe it should be able to tell me alot, I hope.
Thanks for taking so much time to comment and explain.
I plan on checking a bunch of things Friday night.
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 1
From: CT
Car: 86 T/A, 83 Z/28
Engine: 5.0 TPI, 350 2 X 4 bbl
Transmission: 4 speed auto, 5 speed manual
Axle/Gears: 3.23 posi, 3.73 std
Re: Is this a running rich?
Its no problem im more than happy to help where I can. Although since you have a scanner you dont even need the field service mode for the most part (this is great for when you dont have a scanner as its not needed for this) as with the scanner you should be able to just look and see what the O2 sensor reading is as well as if its in open loop closed loop all that good stuff. Ide also use your scanner to check out your temp sensors before you start the car they should be the roughly the same and equal to the outside temperature roughly. A vacuum leak will show up as low IAC counts. Another interesting thing to look at are the BLM value. What this is it your ECMs fudge factor basically. What happens is the ECM calculates what should be required for the appropriate AF ratio however being that this is the real world these calculated values, although can be pretty close, arnt perfect. When the ECM compares what it expects the A/F ratio to be vs what it actually is the ECM will actually create a factor to sort of correct this difference. Normally there should not need to be much correction although if a sensor is feeding the ECM BS information the calculations will be off and the BLMs will be a bit further off as it now needs an even larger correction factor to compensate for whatever may be wrong. I could go on for days as to how nice it is to have a good scanner but i think that will do it for tonight lol.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Re: Is this a running rich?
Its no problem im more than happy to help where I can. Although since you have a scanner you dont even need the field service mode for the most part (this is great for when you dont have a scanner as its not needed for this) as with the scanner you should be able to just look and see what the O2 sensor reading is as well as if its in open loop closed loop all that good stuff. Ide also use your scanner to check out your temp sensors before you start the car they should be the roughly the same and equal to the outside temperature roughly. A vacuum leak will show up as low IAC counts. Another interesting thing to look at are the BLM value. What this is it your ECMs fudge factor basically. What happens is the ECM calculates what should be required for the appropriate AF ratio however being that this is the real world these calculated values, although can be pretty close, arnt perfect. When the ECM compares what it expects the A/F ratio to be vs what it actually is the ECM will actually create a factor to sort of correct this difference. Normally there should not need to be much correction although if a sensor is feeding the ECM BS information the calculations will be off and the BLMs will be a bit further off as it now needs an even larger correction factor to compensate for whatever may be wrong. I could go on for days as to how nice it is to have a good scanner but i think that will do it for tonight lol.
Thanks again. This is great! i check all those things tonight. Apparently, my scanner can take the car into "Field Service Mode" and tell me if I'm running rich or lean or "open/closed loop". Apparently for a Ford it can do a "Cylinder Balance" test that would tell which cylinder is running lean or rich. Too bad it's not Chevy option.
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 1
From: CT
Car: 86 T/A, 83 Z/28
Engine: 5.0 TPI, 350 2 X 4 bbl
Transmission: 4 speed auto, 5 speed manual
Axle/Gears: 3.23 posi, 3.73 std
Re: Is this a running rich?
Well for GMs there is an injector balance test as well but thats more of an injector test. If you had an infared thermometer you could accomplish the same things by measuring the temp of the exhaust manifold ports. In theory they should all be the same or at least roughly the same however the exhaust temperature varies with A/F ratio and measuring ports with different temperatures can give you a ballpark idea of whats going on in each cylinder in comparison to the others.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,525
Likes: 204
From: NYC / Jersey
Car: 1990 Trans Am GTA
Engine: Turbo 305 w/MS2
Transmission: 700R4
Re: Is this a running rich?
Originally Posted by aammcc
Thanks again. This is great! i check all those things tonight.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 870
Likes: 0
From: Brick, NJ
Car: 91 Trans Am
Engine: 355 TPI
Transmission: Built T-5
Re: Is this a running rich?
check your timing, mine was 3 degrees advanced fail emmisions, but her back to stock, 7 BTDC and shaved 200 points off the emmisions reading
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Re: Is this a running rich?
Not sure if my scanner (Actron P9185) will show BLM's. I have to read the instructions and figure that out.
http://www.actron.com/publish/2007/0...lish_16336.pdf
I did plugged the numbers into the Lambda Calculator and it said at 15mph AFR was 16.5 and at 25mph AFR was 17.02, running lean and leaner, respectively.
It will be interesting to see what the scanner reads tonight. It would be great if all I needed to do was turn up the fuel pressure.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Re: Is this a running rich?
Its no problem im more than happy to help where I can. Although since you have a scanner you dont even need the field service mode for the most part (this is great for when you dont have a scanner as its not needed for this) as with the scanner you should be able to just look and see what the O2 sensor reading is as well as if its in open loop closed loop all that good stuff. Ide also use your scanner to check out your temp sensors before you start the car they should be the roughly the same and equal to the outside temperature roughly. A vacuum leak will show up as low IAC counts. Another interesting thing to look at are the BLM value. What this is it your ECMs fudge factor basically. What happens is the ECM calculates what should be required for the appropriate AF ratio however being that this is the real world these calculated values, although can be pretty close, arnt perfect. When the ECM compares what it expects the A/F ratio to be vs what it actually is the ECM will actually create a factor to sort of correct this difference. Normally there should not need to be much correction although if a sensor is feeding the ECM BS information the calculations will be off and the BLMs will be a bit further off as it now needs an even larger correction factor to compensate for whatever may be wrong. I could go on for days as to how nice it is to have a good scanner but i think that will do it for tonight lol.
Temp sensor seemed to be fine before the start at 60*.
Key on only:
BLM-128
Exhaust O2-lean
Using my scanner I put the car into "field service" to see if the car was running lean or rich according to the blinking engine light. Equal on and off flashes was normal. mostly on means running rich and mostly off means running lean. The light flashed mostly off, meaning running lean. So both the light and Lambda Calculator said the car is running lean. So I increased the fuel pressure from 42 psi to 46 psi and scanned. Below is what I got at about 17 minutes. O2 sensor blinks lean and rich back and forth. Please tell me if anything stands out. I plan on going to another smog pre-test on next weekend to see what the new numbers are.
One additional note: AF ratio always seems to show 15, BLM @ clnt temp 168* was 133. IAC was 43-45, but 35 @ 210*. Integrator was also up and down at 168* from 124 to 130, not sure what that means.
Keep in mind, the below numbers are after I increased FP from 42to 46 psi.
Vehicle Data List
CODES PRESENT NO
3RD GEAR SW ON
4TH GEAR SW OFF
A/F RATIO 15
AC CLUTCH OFF
AC ENABLED NO
AC HEAD PRES NORM
AC REQUEST OFF
AIR DIVRT SOL NORM
AIR SW SOL CONV
BATTERY(V) 13.6
BLM 126
BLM CELL 4
CCP DUTY(%) 0
CCP SOLENOID OFF
CLNT STRT(øF) 64
COOLANT(øF) 211
COOLANT SW ON
EGR DUTY(%) 0
ENGINE RPM 675
EXHAUST 02 RICH
FAN1 REQUSTD NO
FAN2 REQUSTD NO
FUEL PUMP(V) 13.3
IAC POSITION 30
IDLE REQ RPM 688
INJ PW(mS) 1.4
INTEGRATOR 130
KNOCK RET(ø) 0
KNOCK SENSOR 125
LOOP STATUS CLSD
MAP(V) 1.16
MAT(øF) 101
O2S(mV) 884
O2S CROSSCNTS 241
OIL TEMP(øF) -39
P/N SWITCH P/N
PROM ID 571
RUN TIME 16:59
SPARK ADV(ø) 20
TCC LOCKUP NO
TCC SOLENOID OFF
THROTTLE(%) 0
TPS SENSOR(V) 0.65
VATS STATUS OK
VEHSPEED(MPH) 0
Frame:-5 Time:-5.4
CODES PRESENT NO
3RD GEAR SW ON
4TH GEAR SW OFF
A/F RATIO 15
AC CLUTCH OFF
AC ENABLED NO
AC HEAD PRES NORM
AC REQUEST OFF
AIR DIVRT SOL NORM
AIR SW SOL CONV
BATTERY(V) 13.8
BLM 126
BLM CELL 4
CCP DUTY(%) 0
CCP SOLENOID OFF
CLNT STRT(øF) 64
COOLANT(øF) 211
COOLANT SW ON
EGR DUTY(%) 0
ENGINE RPM 675
EXHAUST 02 LEAN
FAN1 REQUSTD NO
FAN2 REQUSTD NO
FUEL PUMP(V) 13.5
IAC POSITION 30
IDLE REQ RPM 688
INJ PW(mS) 1.4
INTEGRATOR 127
KNOCK RET(ø) 0
KNOCK SENSOR 125
LOOP STATUS CLSD
MAP(V) 1.20
MAT(øF) 101
O2S(mV) 666
O2S CROSSCNTS 241
OIL TEMP(øF) -39
P/N SWITCH P/N
PROM ID 571
RUN TIME 17:00
SPARK ADV(ø) 25
TCC LOCKUP NO
TCC SOLENOID OFF
THROTTLE(%) 0
TPS SENSOR(V) 0.65
VATS STATUS OK
VEHSPEED(MPH) 0
Frame:-4 Time:-4.3
CODES PRESENT NO
3RD GEAR SW ON
4TH GEAR SW OFF
A/F RATIO 15
AC CLUTCH OFF
AC ENABLED NO
AC HEAD PRES NORM
AC REQUEST OFF
AIR DIVRT SOL NORM
AIR SW SOL CONV
BATTERY(V) 13.9
BLM 126
BLM CELL 4
CCP DUTY(%) 0
CCP SOLENOID OFF
CLNT STRT(øF) 64
COOLANT(øF) 211
COOLANT SW ON
EGR DUTY(%) 0
ENGINE RPM 675
EXHAUST 02 LEAN
FAN1 REQUSTD NO
FAN2 REQUSTD NO
FUEL PUMP(V) 13.5
IAC POSITION 30
IDLE REQ RPM 688
INJ PW(mS) 1.4
INTEGRATOR 128
KNOCK RET(ø) 0
KNOCK SENSOR 125
LOOP STATUS CLSD
MAP(V) 1.18
MAT(øF) 101
O2S(mV) 373
O2S CROSSCNTS 242
OIL TEMP(øF) -39
P/N SWITCH P/N
PROM ID 571
RUN TIME 17:01
SPARK ADV(ø) 25
TCC LOCKUP NO
TCC SOLENOID OFF
THROTTLE(%) 0
TPS SENSOR(V) 0.65
VATS STATUS OK
VEHSPEED(MPH) 0
Frame:-3 Time:-3.2
CODES PRESENT NO
3RD GEAR SW ON
4TH GEAR SW OFF
A/F RATIO 15
AC CLUTCH OFF
AC ENABLED NO
AC HEAD PRES NORM
AC REQUEST OFF
AIR DIVRT SOL NORM
AIR SW SOL CONV
BATTERY(V) 13.7
BLM 126
BLM CELL 4
CCP DUTY(%) 0
CCP SOLENOID OFF
CLNT STRT(øF) 64
COOLANT(øF) 211
COOLANT SW ON
EGR DUTY(%) 0
ENGINE RPM 700
EXHAUST 02 LEAN
FAN1 REQUSTD NO
FAN2 REQUSTD NO
FUEL PUMP(V) 13.3
IAC POSITION 30
IDLE REQ RPM 688
INJ PW(mS) 1.4
INTEGRATOR 130
KNOCK RET(ø) 0
KNOCK SENSOR 125
LOOP STATUS CLSD
MAP(V) 1.14
MAT(øF) 101
O2S(mV) 417
O2S CROSSCNTS 242
OIL TEMP(øF) -39
P/N SWITCH P/N
PROM ID 571
RUN TIME 17:02
SPARK ADV(ø) 18
TCC LOCKUP NO
TCC SOLENOID OFF
THROTTLE(%) 0
TPS SENSOR(V) 0.65
VATS STATUS OK
VEHSPEED(MPH) 0
Frame:-2 Time:-2.2
CODES PRESENT NO
3RD GEAR SW ON
4TH GEAR SW OFF
A/F RATIO 15
AC CLUTCH OFF
AC ENABLED NO
AC HEAD PRES NORM
AC REQUEST OFF
AIR DIVRT SOL NORM
AIR SW SOL CONV
BATTERY(V) 13.6
BLM 126
BLM CELL 4
CCP DUTY(%) 0
CCP SOLENOID OFF
CLNT STRT(øF) 64
COOLANT(øF) 211
COOLANT SW ON
EGR DUTY(%) 0
ENGINE RPM 700
EXHAUST 02 RICH
FAN1 REQUSTD NO
FAN2 REQUSTD NO
FUEL PUMP(V) 13.3
IAC POSITION 30
IDLE REQ RPM 688
INJ PW(mS) 1.4
INTEGRATOR 129
KNOCK RET(ø) 0
KNOCK SENSOR 125
LOOP STATUS CLSD
MAP(V) 1.16
MAT(øF) 101
O2S(mV) 932
O2S CROSSCNTS 243
OIL TEMP(øF) -39
P/N SWITCH P/N
PROM ID 571
RUN TIME 17:03
SPARK ADV(ø) 20
TCC LOCKUP NO
TCC SOLENOID OFF
THROTTLE(%) 0
TPS SENSOR(V) 0.65
VATS STATUS OK
VEHSPEED(MPH) 0
Frame:-1 Time:-1.1
CODES PRESENT NO
3RD GEAR SW ON
4TH GEAR SW OFF
A/F RATIO 15
AC CLUTCH OFF
AC ENABLED NO
AC HEAD PRES NORM
AC REQUEST OFF
AIR DIVRT SOL NORM
AIR SW SOL CONV
BATTERY(V) 13.8
BLM 126
BLM CELL 4
CCP DUTY(%) 0
CCP SOLENOID OFF
CLNT STRT(øF) 64
COOLANT(øF) 211
COOLANT SW ON
EGR DUTY(%) 0
ENGINE RPM 700
EXHAUST 02 LEAN
FAN1 REQUSTD NO
FAN2 REQUSTD NO
FUEL PUMP(V) 13.5
IAC POSITION 31
IDLE REQ RPM 688
INJ PW(mS) 1.4
INTEGRATOR 127
KNOCK RET(ø) 0
KNOCK SENSOR 125
LOOP STATUS CLSD
MAP(V) 1.20
MAT(øF) 102
O2S(mV) 444
O2S CROSSCNTS 244
OIL TEMP(øF) -39
P/N SWITCH P/N
PROM ID 571
RUN TIME 17:04
SPARK ADV(ø) 18
TCC LOCKUP NO
TCC SOLENOID OFF
THROTTLE(%) 0
TPS SENSOR(V) 0.65
VATS STATUS OK
VEHSPEED(MPH) 0
Frame: 0 Time: 0.0
CODES PRESENT NO
3RD GEAR SW ON
4TH GEAR SW OFF
A/F RATIO 15
AC CLUTCH OFF
AC ENABLED NO
AC HEAD PRES NORM
AC REQUEST OFF
AIR DIVRT SOL NORM
AIR SW SOL CONV
BATTERY(V) 13.9
BLM 126
BLM CELL 4
CCP DUTY(%) 0
CCP SOLENOID OFF
CLNT STRT(øF) 64
COOLANT(øF) 212
COOLANT SW ON
EGR DUTY(%) 0
ENGINE RPM 700
EXHAUST 02 LEAN
FAN1 REQUSTD NO
FAN2 REQUSTD NO
FUEL PUMP(V) 13.5
IAC POSITION 31
IDLE REQ RPM 688
INJ PW(mS) 1.4
INTEGRATOR 129
KNOCK RET(ø) 0
KNOCK SENSOR 125
LOOP STATUS CLSD
MAP(V) 1.18
MAT(øF) 102
O2S(mV) 382
O2S CROSSCNTS 244
OIL TEMP(øF) -39
P/N SWITCH P/N
PROM ID 571
RUN TIME 17:06
SPARK ADV(ø) 20
TCC LOCKUP NO
TCC SOLENOID OFF
THROTTLE(%) 0
TPS SENSOR(V) 0.65
VATS STATUS OK
VEHSPEED(MPH) 0
Frame: 1 Time: 1.0
CODES PRESENT NO
3RD GEAR SW ON
4TH GEAR SW OFF
A/F RATIO 15
AC CLUTCH OFF
AC ENABLED NO
AC HEAD PRES NORM
AC REQUEST OFF
AIR DIVRT SOL NORM
AIR SW SOL CONV
BATTERY(V) 13.9
BLM 126
BLM CELL 4
CCP DUTY(%) 0
CCP SOLENOID OFF
CLNT STRT(øF) 64
COOLANT(øF) 212
COOLANT SW ON
EGR DUTY(%) 0
ENGINE RPM 700
EXHAUST 02 LEAN
FAN1 REQUSTD NO
FAN2 REQUSTD NO
FUEL PUMP(V) 13.5
IAC POSITION 31
IDLE REQ RPM 688
INJ PW(mS) 1.5
INTEGRATOR 131
KNOCK RET(ø) 0
KNOCK SENSOR 125
LOOP STATUS CLSD
MAP(V) 1.16
MAT(øF) 102
O2S(mV) 435
O2S CROSSCNTS 244
OIL TEMP(øF) -39
P/N SWITCH P/N
PROM ID 571
RUN TIME 17:07
SPARK ADV(ø) 17
TCC LOCKUP NO
TCC SOLENOID OFF
THROTTLE(%) 0
TPS SENSOR(V) 0.65
VATS STATUS OK
VEHSPEED(MPH) 0
Frame: 2 Time: 2.1
CODES PRESENT NO
3RD GEAR SW ON
4TH GEAR SW OFF
A/F RATIO 15
AC CLUTCH OFF
AC ENABLED NO
AC HEAD PRES NORM
AC REQUEST OFF
AIR DIVRT SOL NORM
AIR SW SOL CONV
BATTERY(V) 13.9
BLM 126
BLM CELL 4
CCP DUTY(%) 0
CCP SOLENOID OFF
CLNT STRT(øF) 64
COOLANT(øF) 212
COOLANT SW ON
EGR DUTY(%) 0
ENGINE RPM 700
EXHAUST 02 RICH
FAN1 REQUSTD NO
FAN2 REQUSTD NO
FUEL PUMP(V) 13.5
IAC POSITION 31
IDLE REQ RPM 688
INJ PW(mS) 1.4
INTEGRATOR 129
KNOCK RET(ø) 0
KNOCK SENSOR 125
LOOP STATUS CLSD
MAP(V) 1.18
MAT(øF) 102
O2S(mV) 897
O2S CROSSCNTS 247
OIL TEMP(øF) -39
P/N SWITCH P/N
PROM ID 571
RUN TIME 17:08
SPARK ADV(ø) 18
TCC LOCKUP NO
TCC SOLENOID OFF
THROTTLE(%) 0
TPS SENSOR(V) 0.65
VATS STATUS OK
VEHSPEED(MPH) 0
Frame: 3 Time: 3.1
CODES PRESENT NO
3RD GEAR SW ON
4TH GEAR SW OFF
A/F RATIO 15
AC CLUTCH OFF
AC ENABLED NO
AC HEAD PRES NORM
AC REQUEST OFF
AIR DIVRT SOL NORM
AIR SW SOL CONV
BATTERY(V) 13.8
BLM 126
BLM CELL 4
CCP DUTY(%) 0
CCP SOLENOID OFF
CLNT STRT(øF) 64
COOLANT(øF) 212
COOLANT SW ON
EGR DUTY(%) 0
ENGINE RPM 700
EXHAUST 02 LEAN
FAN1 REQUSTD NO
FAN2 REQUSTD NO
FUEL PUMP(V) 13.5
IAC POSITION 31
IDLE REQ RPM 688
INJ PW(mS) 1.4
INTEGRATOR 126
KNOCK RET(ø) 0
KNOCK SENSOR 125
LOOP STATUS CLSD
MAP(V) 1.18
MAT(øF) 102
O2S(mV) 466
O2S CROSSCNTS 248
OIL TEMP(øF) -39
P/N SWITCH P/N
PROM ID 571
RUN TIME 17:09
SPARK ADV(ø) 20
TCC LOCKUP NO
TCC SOLENOID OFF
THROTTLE(%) 0
TPS SENSOR(V) 0.65
VATS STATUS OK
VEHSPEED(MPH) 0
Frame: 4 Time: 4.2
CODES PRESENT NO
3RD GEAR SW ON
4TH GEAR SW OFF
A/F RATIO 15
AC CLUTCH OFF
AC ENABLED NO
AC HEAD PRES NORM
AC REQUEST OFF
AIR DIVRT SOL NORM
AIR SW SOL CONV
BATTERY(V) 13.9
BLM 126
BLM CELL 4
CCP DUTY(%) 0
CCP SOLENOID OFF
CLNT STRT(øF) 64
COOLANT(øF) 212
COOLANT SW ON
EGR DUTY(%) 0
ENGINE RPM 700
EXHAUST 02 LEAN
FAN1 REQUSTD NO
FAN2 REQUSTD NO
FUEL PUMP(V) 13.5
IAC POSITION 31
IDLE REQ RPM 688
INJ PW(mS) 1.4
INTEGRATOR 128
KNOCK RET(ø) 0
KNOCK SENSOR 125
LOOP STATUS CLSD
MAP(V) 1.18
MAT(øF) 102
O2S(mV) 364
O2S CROSSCNTS 248
OIL TEMP(øF) -39
P/N SWITCH P/N
PROM ID 571
RUN TIME 17:10
SPARK ADV(ø) 20
TCC LOCKUP NO
TCC SOLENOID OFF
THROTTLE(%) 0
TPS SENSOR(V) 0.65
VATS STATUS OK
VEHSPEED(MPH) 0
Frame: 5 Time: 5.2
CODES PRESENT NO
3RD GEAR SW ON
4TH GEAR SW OFF
A/F RATIO 15
AC CLUTCH OFF
AC ENABLED NO
AC HEAD PRES NORM
AC REQUEST OFF
AIR DIVRT SOL NORM
AIR SW SOL CONV
BATTERY(V) 13.8
BLM 126
BLM CELL 4
CCP DUTY(%) 0
CCP SOLENOID OFF
CLNT STRT(øF) 64
COOLANT(øF) 212
COOLANT SW ON
EGR DUTY(%) 0
ENGINE RPM 700
EXHAUST 02 LEAN
FAN1 REQUSTD NO
FAN2 REQUSTD NO
FUEL PUMP(V) 13.4
IAC POSITION 31
IDLE REQ RPM 688
INJ PW(mS) 1.4
INTEGRATOR 130
KNOCK RET(ø) 0
KNOCK SENSOR 125
LOOP STATUS CLSD
MAP(V) 1.16
MAT(øF) 102
O2S(mV) 408
O2S CROSSCNTS 248
OIL TEMP(øF) -39
P/N SWITCH P/N
PROM ID 571
RUN TIME 17:11
SPARK ADV(ø) 17
TCC LOCKUP NO
TCC SOLENOID OFF
THROTTLE(%) 0
TPS SENSOR(V) 0.65
VATS STATUS OK
VEHSPEED(MPH) 0
FRAME: 6
CODES PRESENT NO
3RD GEAR SW ON
4TH GEAR SW OFF
A/F RATIO 15
AC CLUTCH OFF
AC ENABLED NO
AC HEAD PRES NORM
AC REQUEST OFF
AIR DIVRT SOL NORM
AIR SW SOL CONV
BATTERY(V) 13.8
BLM 126
BLM CELL 4
CCP DUTY(%) 0
CCP SOLENOID OFF
CLNT STRT(øF) 64
COOLANT(øF) 212
COOLANT SW ON
EGR DUTY(%) 0
ENGINE RPM 700
EXHAUST 02 RICH
FAN1 REQUSTD NO
FAN2 REQUSTD NO
FUEL PUMP(V) 13.4
IAC POSITION 31
IDLE REQ RPM 688
INJ PW(mS) 1.4
INTEGRATOR 131
KNOCK RET(ø) 0
KNOCK SENSOR 125
LOOP STATUS CLSD
MAP(V) 1.16
MAT(øF) 102
O2S(mV) 897
O2S CROSSCNTS 253
OIL TEMP(øF) -39
P/N SWITCH P/N
PROM ID 571
RUN TIME 17:12
SPARK ADV(ø) 18
TCC LOCKUP NO
TCC SOLENOID OFF
THROTTLE(%) 0
TPS SENSOR(V) 0.65
VATS STATUS OK
VEHSPEED(MPH) 0
Frame: 7 Time: 7.3
CODES PRESENT NO
3RD GEAR SW ON
4TH GEAR SW OFF
A/F RATIO 15
AC CLUTCH OFF
AC ENABLED NO
AC HEAD PRES NORM
AC REQUEST OFF
AIR DIVRT SOL NORM
AIR SW SOL CONV
BATTERY(V) 13.8
BLM 126
BLM CELL 4
CCP DUTY(%) 0
CCP SOLENOID OFF
CLNT STRT(øF) 64
COOLANT(øF) 212
COOLANT SW ON
EGR DUTY(%) 0
ENGINE RPM 675
EXHAUST 02 RICH
FAN1 REQUSTD NO
FAN2 REQUSTD NO
FUEL PUMP(V) 13.5
IAC POSITION 31
IDLE REQ RPM 688
INJ PW(mS) 1.4
INTEGRATOR 127
KNOCK RET(ø) 0
KNOCK SENSOR 125
LOOP STATUS CLSD
MAP(V) 1.20
MAT(øF) 102
O2S(mV) 870
O2S CROSSCNTS 253
OIL TEMP(øF) -39
P/N SWITCH P/N
PROM ID 571
RUN TIME 17:13
SPARK ADV(ø) 25
TCC LOCKUP NO
TCC SOLENOID OFF
THROTTLE(%) 0
TPS SENSOR(V) 0.65
VATS STATUS OK
VEHSPEED(MPH) 0
Frame: 8 Time: 8.4
Last edited by aammcc; Jan 10, 2010 at 12:15 AM.
Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 1
From: CT
Car: 86 T/A, 83 Z/28
Engine: 5.0 TPI, 350 2 X 4 bbl
Transmission: 4 speed auto, 5 speed manual
Axle/Gears: 3.23 posi, 3.73 std
Re: Is this a running rich?
Well actually according to your ecm things are just fine. A BLM of 128 is perfect and means no corrections are being made to the long term fuel trim and the integrator will should act as it did. I believe ideally its 126-130 but yours is near perfect. Basically things are working perfectly in your ECMs eyes. Now your probably wondering what the heck about the field service mode and saying it was lean then? It will read a little lean at idle and should read normal under part throttle cruise. Basically just resting your foot on the pedal a bit as if u were just putting around town. Although beyond that according to your ECM your not running rich or lean just perfect.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Re: Is this a running rich?
Well actually according to your ecm things are just fine. A BLM of 128 is perfect and means no corrections are being made to the long term fuel trim and the integrator will should act as it did. I believe ideally its 126-130 but yours is near perfect. Basically things are working perfectly in your ECMs eyes. Now your probably wondering what the heck about the field service mode and saying it was lean then? It will read a little lean at idle and should read normal under part throttle cruise. Basically just resting your foot on the pedal a bit as if u were just putting around town. Although beyond that according to your ECM your not running rich or lean just perfect.
Thanks for your input again. As I said before, I'm planning on doing the pretest again this weekend to see what the #'s look like with the psi at 36.
I was looking closer at the data stream and notice a few things at idle.
Exhaust 02 goes in a rich once, lean, lean, lean 3time, then rich once again. But BLM is 126 straight through.
EGR Duty % stays at 0% straight through. I thought a closed EGR was supposed to be 100%?
Oil Temp is -39* straight through even though the coolant temp is around 212*. Does this mean that an oil temperature sensor is bad and does the ECM also use oil temperature to make adjustments? Or the ECM reading -39* because the ECM is bad?
If the EGR duty should be 100% at idle and maybe the oil temp data is also wrong maybe my ECM is bad?
Maybe I should drive the car and observe the readings and see if they change...
what do you think?
thanks again!
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Re: Is this a running rich?
Tonight I decided to pull out the plugs to see what they looked like. I only got to do 1-7 on the drivers side and #2. The gap was about .50 as reccommended by MSD when you have the box, 8mm wires, and blaster coil. The plugs (AC Delco) mostly looked like they had a brown spot, a few dark, on one side of the center porcelin. Exept for one which was gapped at around .42. That one seemed to have a more even brownish tan color. The top flat edge above the threads appeared black and shiney, or glazed might be a better word. It appears that the gap at .50 is a big problem.
I didn't get to finish so i won't be making it tomorrow for a pre-test as planned. Instead, my next steps will now be to finish the plugs, bump the fuel pressure back down to 42 or 43 psi instead of 46 psi, then try a pre-test. I'm determined to get the car running in an easy to pass emissions condition, even if I have to go to a pretest every other weekend.
I didn't get to finish so i won't be making it tomorrow for a pre-test as planned. Instead, my next steps will now be to finish the plugs, bump the fuel pressure back down to 42 or 43 psi instead of 46 psi, then try a pre-test. I'm determined to get the car running in an easy to pass emissions condition, even if I have to go to a pretest every other weekend.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
