Grants89iroc-z

Went through a pretty big puddle, and got water all through my intake seizing up my engine. So i towed it home, Took out all the spark plugs and tried to crank it over. But as soon as i try to crank it over, it just clicks. You can hear the starter engage. I even took the starter out and had autozone test it for free, and it was perfect. So i put it back in and figured since i cant get it to turn over with the starter, Ill just push start it. So i put it in reverse and coasted down the drive way and let out the clutch, The tires Instantly locked up. Remember..i have NO spark plugs in at all.

My engine is completely seized, Can this really Happen? Just from getting water in my cylinders!?

Guest

Yep. Water does not compress so... the piston comes up and you end up with a bent rod. I'd drain the crankcase just be sure thats not full of water too, but sounds like your motor is done.

You can also try turning the crank by hand (socket and breaker bar or similar) and see if it moves or not.

86White_T/A305

You must have sucked up a large amount of water.but yes it will hydrolock and it would have made a very nasty loud clank when it seized.ive hydrolocked before when my fuel regulator diaphragm ripped and had no restricted fuel pressure.before you blow that starter apart trying to crank it..grab a hefty size ratched..a long metal tube to fit over the handle,the proper size socket to fit on the front crank pulley bolt and a good jolt backwards should unseize her...or a good breaker bar if you have one. now once the motor is free and you can crank the motor with the breaker bar in a complete 4 stroke cyle with feeling it bind,try using the starter with the plugs out to force left over water out..it may seize again but if your desperate..unseize it like i mentioned.try your luck putting the plugs in and see if it will start..most likely it will..but your pistons,rings,cylinder walls might not like you anymore. good luck :S

Grants89iroc-z

Well if its not going to move by push starting, then i dont think i could make it move either lol, But a bent rod can really make my engine not even Move!?

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

Yes. Bent//busted//twisted rod(s), no oil, busted valve(s) getting into a motor. There are quite a few things that cease a motor!

The thing about turning the motor by hand is if you can turn it backwards, turn it a full revolution, see if it binds, then turn it forwards, see if it binds. Either way, binding is not good as you know.

8t2 z-chev

seen hydrolock happen to a '94 astro 4.3-fuel regulator
sprung a big leak and dumped a bunch of gas into the
intake,owners tried real hard to get van started and
ended up bending a conrod causing a piston to hit crank
breaking the piston skirt.

86White_T/A305

Keep in mind that trying to push the car backwards and dump the clutch wont unseize the motor..your only hurting other components from that point.I highly suggest taking the above mentioned route and pay attention to how it turns over by hand with a breaker bar or some sort.I got lucky my rods werent bent but I still had cylinder wall scarring..loss of compression,blow by,maybe a bent valve or 5 lol.but the car would run and ran hard but wasnt safe to run over a long period of time.

As I said before,if your desperate in seeing whether it will run at all then give this a shot but dont count on it running very well or for long without being freshened back up.

86White_T/A305

When my 355 hydrolocked on fuel i was luckily using my remote starter and caught the leak as it happened and it lightly locked up but still caused more damage than i wanted to fix.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

If you suspect water got in....Pull the drain plug & see what you get. Any water would be on the bottom, so if water is in the pan, it should start coming out right away, but it wouldn't hurt to do a full oil drain & refill.

Burnout91

Even with the spark plugs removed, turning (or attempting to turn) the engine over with the crank-pulley bolt can result in shearing off the head of said bolt, which may or may not be a major issue at this point.

Bill

PV9685

Yeah, I've had this happen twice. First was a Gen II 2.8 FWD motor - it had like 210,000 miles and ran excellent - until it "fell in a puddle" as the towing industry referred to it. Pulling the plugs it would turn over by the starter - Rur-ruuuur-rur-ruuuur.... Bent rod or crank. Crankshafts seem really tough but when you stop them when they are rotating they are like a spaghetti noodle!

Second car was a 95 Lumina with a 3100. Well! It locked and I pulled all the plugs, drained and filled the oil... and she "purred" almost as well as before. VERY LUCKY. (VERY VERY) TPS went the next day, no biggie. That was probably about 25,000 miles ago, car runs almost as good as before. probably some scuffing.

Those puddles can be quite a doosie. Put the trans in neutral, take the belt off the front of the engine if you like, and try to reverse the rotation of the engine - squirt some marvel mystery crap oil in the cylinders if you want an extra dose of luck! Hey who knows - you may drive away on 7 good cylinders!

Anyhow, hydrolocking occurs easier than some would imagine.

Grants89iroc-z

Okay guys, Since im supposed to turn this engine backwards.. What would happen if i pushed the car backwards, and Popped the clutch in second gear. Would that turn the engine backwards?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

No. Just like putting your car in Reverse, the engine doesn't go backwards.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

In a forward gear and the car pushed back or rolling back off the hill will turn the engine the other way around, it's not the same as putting it in rev.

PV9685

Just like pushing the car forward and popping it in reverse - engine turns in reverse. I would try a higher gear, like 4th. Though I suggest you ease the clutch not pop it - unless you want more "fun".

Njs305t/a

The engine never turns in reverse on it's own. It spins the same way all the time. The gearing in the tranny makes you go backwards.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

No.....The engine does not go backwards. The tranny is what causes the rear axle to go forward or in reverse. Same goes the other way around. The rear axle direction wil not cause the engine to reverse rotate.

Guest

Sure it will.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

No. A torque converter or clutch will slip long before the axle causes the cylinders to compress. Or the tires loose traction & slip. They won't hold long enough to cause an engine to reverse & compress.

Guest

If the tires or clutch will slip well before the engine turns and compresses some air then how can you push start a stickshift car?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Because you are going WITH the intended rotation, not opposite it. It isn't nearly as happy going in the opposite direction, not to mention if any combustion occurs, that it be another block of reverse rotation.

Guest

Sure guy. Keep telling yourself that.

Do you ever work on cars? I have turned engines backwards by hand. Your argument is just stupid.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Don't take my word for it....You just go try doing it. You won't get more than 1 rotation, if that. It ain't gonna happen.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

The engine does not know what forward or rearward is, the only reason an engine runs in a certain direction is because the cam is ground with the lobes in that order, regrind the cam the other way around,and it'll happily run the other way around.

This guy has no spark plugs in it, the engine will go the other way around. No one here said the engine will start running the other way around. That's all he's asking, to break it loose...not to run the engine...

You're backpedaling like mad, trying to weasel yourself out of a stupid comment and blindly trying to stick with it too. Everyone here read the guy has no sparkplugs, his sole intent is to reverse the rotation of the crankshaft, everyone here knew he has a manual transmission. So in other words, running the car off the hill backward in a forward gear will reverse rotation direction. Same for running forward in reverse gear although I don't recommend that as the rev. gears are pretty weak, they break easily.


And if you want to try it, let the car roll off the hill backward and then rev it up and jump the clutch, something WILL break, I once broke the pinion ouf of my diff that way (alu cased Dana44 ICA 82 vette)

Awesome-X

PV9685

"The engine never turns in reverse on it's own. It spins the same way all the time. The gearing in the tranny makes you go backwards." - That's correct. Though I think most people in this forum have already established this point. Heck, what would we need reverse for if the engine just simply spun in reverse?

"No. A torque converter or clutch will slip long before the axle causes the cylinders to compress. Or the tires loose traction & slip. They won't hold long enough to cause an engine to reverse & compress."

Well, tell that to anyone that has ever pop started a car with a manual transmission - tell them that it didn't happen like that. Tell them the clutch and tires slipped and the car didn't start. There are no spark plugs in this guy's engine; ie: no compression - some 4 cylinder's can be turned by hand with no plugs in them!

But yes, you are correct that something is not going to goes as planned because the key ingredient here is that the engine is seized up. Hence the point of oiling the cylinders and using a breaker bar. Though he shouldn't put a bar on the damper bolt direclty - there are tools that can be bolted to the 3 threaded holes on the damper.

But it's probably not going to matter. The engine is doomed.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

I wouldn't have to, if people keep saying you can do it, when you can't.

I'm not going to keep correcting everyone who thinks an engine will reverse rotate. Yes it CAN, but I guarantee it won't. Go try it. It will fight you all the way & break something. Go try it. As a former Firefighter, I've seen plenty of cars pulled backwards & an engine WILL NOT reverse rotate.

Pull the plugs & pull the engine loose from the rest of the drivetrain, and sure....But not with anything attached, it won't.

Guest

Will not eh? Are you SURE you do not want to retract that statement before I post again?

PV9685

"Yes it CAN, but I guarantee it won't. Go try it. It will fight you all the way & break something. Go try it. As a former Firefighter, I've seen plenty of cars pulled backwards & an engine WILL NOT reverse rotate."

Actually it will. To verify my opinion on the matter, I JUST NOW did this. 2nd gear, TPI and 5 speed WITH PLUGS IN THE ENGINE. I could take a video if it actually mattered. And this was simply rocking the car by hand from a complete stop, let alone easing the clutch in when it's rolling as the OP is looking to do. I am finished posting here as it is pointless to do so when there is obviously NOTHING prohibiting the engine from being turned in reverse in the first place. This is a foolish discussion and the FACT is that it does work - go try it and stop wasting people's time. Goodbye.

Grants - good luck with your vehicle, I would guess you will need a bottom end

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Post whatever you wanna type....Won't make it true.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

And you know that the engine rotated in reverse internally HOW?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

You know what....Do whatever y'all want. I don't care.

OP.....Don't break anything (more).

UNSUBSCRIBING!

Guest

Thats what you always do when you fail. You UNSUBSCRIBE as if the incorrect information you previously posted just goes away.

http://home.earthlink.net/~walterfos...012210_001.wmv

6 rotations of the engine 'the wrong way'. Trans in a foward gear. Vehicle moving in reverse. On wet ground. Using one hand to push the vehicle, the other was holding the camera. Oh BTW that is my daily driver, so no funny stuff going on in case you want to argue that as well.

PV9685

"And you know that the engine rotated in reverse internally HOW?" - Because I was pushing from the front bumper - I have a formula they don't weigh much - as I pushed I watched the alternator fan turn forward, then reverse, forward, then reverse. simple.

Grants89iroc-z

Well my engine must be locked up then, cause i put it in 4th gear and tried my hardest to push that car backwards and it just would not spin the engine. I rocked it forward and backwards my hardest and well, engines probably done!
Im not putting a new engine in this car lol, it will be the 3rd engine!
So, any suggestions on what to do with the car? I cannot part it out, im 16 years old and dont have the time to disassemble it all lol. All Opinions Welcome!

Oh and thanks for the video of the engine going backwards!

PV9685

Well, if you're 16 and don't have time to part it out then you probably don't have air tools. Just selling your trans could buy you a compressor and the essentials like a 3/8" air ratchet and 1/2" Impact gun and perhaps more depending on pricing. From there you could tear apart the whole car in a couple days lol. Whatever you do, don't send the car to the crusher without letting others know that you want to get rid of it - our cars shouldn't get crushed unless they are useless in a non-mechanical manner (ie: bent "frame"). Think about it.

If you do decide to part it, PM me if the tranny is any good! Take care.

Grants89iroc-z

Lol well im 16 and i DO have air tools! just hate to part it out, but i just got info that my dads friend would like to buy it. he says he will put an engine in it, so Its going to be his problem now! haha.

PV9685

That's great, keep the car alive! Well, you're smart. I didn't get air tools till I was about 20 - oh the years of pain! One day I realized "Hey, I really should get some air tools" and I would probably hang myself if I didn't have them these days.

wabbitslayer

Did you not watch the harmonic balancer turning counter clockwise? That is how I know it was going backward... He even marked it for the vid.

Grants89iroc-z

Yeah, i just hate to let it go! I just put on a whole new front end too lol, and then 2 days later the engine's done! Some luck right...lol
Im actually trying to buy a mustang 5.0, Not really dissing camaro's as im a die hard camaro fan lol But this mustang is a great deal for what it is.