SethB0601

Hello all, I have an 87 iroc with the 350 tpi in it, I’m looking to get a new ecu and I can’t decide between the fitech ultimate tpi stand-alone or the ebl flash system. The reason I want a new ecu is cause I have the 01227165 ecu and it’ll randomly run horribly like it’ll die under any throttle and runs so rich it’s almost like it’s a diesel. I’ve replaced the ecu once, didn’t fix it. Come to find out it’s my prom chip not seating properly, and the only way to “fix it” is by shimming it with washers between the chip and the cover plate, it runs perfectly fine then (till the shims come loose) and will do the same thing over and over again. I’m just tired of messing with it and want some advice/ opinions of which would be the better choice. I want to mod it in the future and I’m not sure how much power the fitech can handle, I also have no clue what I’m doing when it comes to tuning, so I’m just trying to weigh my options out, I’m leaning more towards fitech but it’s double the price of the ebl flash. Anyone with experience in either units please share your knowledge and opinion with me so I can compare the pros and cons of each unit. Thank you.

Andreas_91GTA

Me and a friend installed a fitech 38350 on my 91 a couple of months ago. It took a full day from lunch to midnight, mostly beacause it was hard to reach stuff, stuck lambda probe etc.etc. We didn't have a lift, which probably would have cut a few hours.

First - you (or anyone installing it) have to have basic understanding about wiring since the fitech now controls the fuelpump, lockup and almost every sensor in the car. You'll have to get under the car changing lambda probe, changing vss wiring/connector on the tranny and be careful to run the new looms away from heat.

You'll have to change from maf to map. Fitech provides the hardware.

If your stock coolant sensor is good - keep it. Fitech provides a new one but If you have a good AC delco then use that one.

My 91 translates the vss signal in the 7730 ecm and since that was going out I had to get a dakota digital SGI 100 BT and hack into the vss signal to get my stock speedo to function.

And then I had a hard time getting the car to start until I adjusted tps and iac. Everybody online said: remember to do the tps and iac!! but I thought that was for all the ls1 dudes (the tpi system is basically a ls1 system with another name). Then I came to my senses and did the proceedure and the car now starts on first crank with no hesitation at all.

I love how the car runs and watching all the data. Im planning on a mild 406 or 421 with my accel super ram and to my knowledge all i have to do on the fitech after the swap is tell it what cui, what lbs injectors and what cam 1-4 (what vacuum) - then everything should just be good to go.

Get a friend to help, is my advice

vinny R

As Andreas said if you go with the Fitech you have all those hrs on the install and it sounds like more than just plug and play. Depending on your electrical/mechanical knowledge the install of this system could be a deal breaker. IIRC the EBL flash just replaces the original ecu so it is more of a plug and play system. This to me would probably have me lean towards the EBL system.
Also depending on what, when and how you plan on modding your engine that would also be a determining factor. If you plan on modding is years away or just simple mods like intake and exhaust I think the EBL would better serve you. Just my

SethB0601

Ahhhh ok thank you for the info, I’m not worried about the wiring or anything cause I have experience from my job working on motor homes and rvs. How has it done since you installed it? Any problems or critiques you have with the unit or anything you’d change? And how much power would you estimate that 406 or 421 would make. I want my 350 to be in the 350-400 hp range, maybe even more eventually, and possibly stroke it to 383.

SethB0601

True, that’s why I’m stuck between the two, I’m not worried about the wiring, cause I’ll probably have to rewire the car anyways cause it sat in a shed for almost 15 years and probably needs it anyways considering it’s 36 years old. The reason I don’t just immediately get the ebl is the fact it’s older and uses older ways of tuning that I honestly don’t have a clue what I’d be doing. I’m more than confident in my mechanical abilities, but the laptop tuning stuff has me worried I’d blow it up or just never get it to run the way I want. And the engine upgrades will be over time, I want it to make around 350-400 hp if not more to the wheels and possibly stroke it to 383. So I’ll be putting all new engine parts in it, but it will be over time and not overnight, though I wish it could be.

Andreas_91GTA

No problems what so ever. My guess is the criticism online comes from faulty or at least semi-faulty installations. The system is sensitive! You want a good battery, good wiring everywhere, make sure the connections seat/click, set the tps and iac etc and make really sure you have no vacuum/air leaks, especially close to the lambda (which is a Bosch).

The 406/421 will be built for torque since I mostly live at stock range 800-3500 rpm. I want to have full power from idle, use stock converter (and pass emissions) I'm aiming for, like you, 350-400 hp and 500-550 ft.lbs. I really just want the car to pull like a battleship from idle.

SethB0601

Yea I get that battleship thing, that’s how I want my car to be. Would you say it’s worth the 850+ bucks for it, or if you could go back would you get something like the ebl flash 2 unit. My thing is, the ebl unit is half the price of the fitech, can do the same things as the fitech(I think) but it’s just older and uses older tuning methods. I’d love to literally take out my old ecu and slap in an ebl but I’d be worried about the factory wiring on my car, and at that point I might as well buy the fitech cause it’d be cheaper or the same as a new harness and the ebl together.

Andreas_91GTA

I bought a chip for $200 and then after a month a bought the fitech. That was an unnecessary $200......

You can also have the fitech as an error checking device. If something is up with your engine you'll probably notice if afr is off, or vacuum, ignition advance or whatever.

And remember that the fitech will possibility set you back another couple of bucks to get your speedo back online. The fitech handheld shows mph calculated from tire diameter but I need the dash speedo (km/h) to work for car inspection reasons.

If you're no stranger to work on your car and the investment wont risk you not being able to put food on the table I'd say go for the fitech. It sounds like you already made your mind up anyway and just need a little push

SethB0601

Yea I really want the fitech but I’m just trying to see if the ebl flash system is as good as people make it seem to be or if it’ll just be a big headache trying to learn to operate and tune the thing and it be better to just get the fitech, which is more than likely what I’ll do, I just wish I could find someone with experience with that unit as well to directly compare the 2 in the same thread. With my cars Speedo being cable driven will it work with no mods being done, with your car being a 91 it was an electric speedo correct? So that’s why you had to modify it to work?

Andreas_91GTA

Correct, electric speedo. And also worth mentioning is my car has a fresh 355 in it with new everything (except AC, which is completely out of the car) so if anything bad happened after the installation I could rule all the GM hardware out. In my case i wanted to future proof the car since I have been thinking about a future engine swap.

Another thing - the online fitech customer service is not up to standard. I guess they are drenched in mail. I had Dakota digital help me with my speedo settings, including fitech tips. They are true champs!

SethB0601

Yea that’s what I’m wanting to do to the car for any upgrades I could do to it, and that’s good to know about Dakota digital, I’ve looked at a bunch of stuff from them.

ULTM8Z

I'm planning on getting an EBL P4 when they're back in stock. I already have my 7730 ECM very well dialed in and I'm still looking to buy an EBL... as I've heard so many good things about and I'm looking for the next thing to do the Camaro.

I wouldn't let the idea of having to use a laptop worry you (in terms of the "old method"). In reality, once you start get your feet wet with tuning, the basics of it is fairly intuitive, in terms of fuel and spark. Also from what I understand, there are base tunes available that are representative of many different engine combinations, which should get you pretty close upon initial start up.

The other thing to keep in mind is troubleshooting. RBob, who markets the EBL, is a very active member on this site and is able to respond and answer questions about it in a timely manner (not to mention other EBL users who are also experts on the subject). I'm not sure about FI-Tech in that regard.

SethB0601

Ahh ok, yea that’s the only worry I have about the ebl is the learning curve of it, but it’s half the price of the fitech which is grabbing my attention a lot. Do you know if the p4 unit is any better than the flash 2 unit, like is there any reason I would want the p4 over the flash 2. And if there is do you know when they’re going to be back in stock.

ULTM8Z

It's not a matter of better or worse. I think the difference is what ECMs they're each made for.

As far as becoming available, my last communication with RBob indicated he didnt have a expected date at this time. But that was for the P4. I don't know the status on other models.

SethB0601

Hey sorry I went away for a little while on here, I received the fitech unit today and started taking the old harness out. Do you have any tips on taking the old harness out, did you have to do anything special like take the intake off or anything like that? And how did you get the new harness started/ routed? Start from inside out? Or hook everything up the run it through firewall?

Andreas_91GTA

Leave the old harness until everything is working.
Start from inside. You have to drill a ~50 mm hole through the firewall and put a rubber grommet for protection and then start pushing the new harness out (having help here will save you time). Then it's just a unclick-old-and-install-new type of deal. Be careful to not push in the metal into the housing on the new fitech connectors. They are not of gm quality.

F ex I used the old wire to the fuel pump, fans and hooked the fitech there, same for lock up release. I do not have AC anymore and left that out.

​​​​​​No parts needs to be taken out. Maybe you'll need to get your drivers side manifold out to go bananas on the lambda?

SethB0601

Oh dang I’ve already got a majority of the old harness hanging out of the car. Did you leave your entire old harness in? And not to bother you or nothing but do you have any pictures of where you drilled that hole and how you routed your fitech harness? And also where you broke into the existing wires for stuff?

Andreas_91GTA

Well, hanging out of the car is fine. Just keep it as a backup if you run into major problems with the fitech and need the car to be running.

My harness was severly cut, added, shortened, lengthened, spliced, you name it so I had no problem cutting stuff out. Will complete the removal later this year when I change intake base (and take the distributor off) and get a better reach of the fat harness going behind the motor.
Since I took the empty AC out I also changed to a non-ac heater fan and smaller heater box. I guess that made it easier compared to the huge AC box.
A friend of mine routed the harness the same as GM did it 30+ years ago (passenger side inner fender) but mine was drenched rock hard permatex where it's going from inside to outside and I didn't have the zen-like calmness to spend several hours just focusing on that part.

Can't provide any pictures since I dont wanna tear down the interior again but I basically drilled a 50 mm hole from the inside, under the heater box, put a rubber grommet there and pulled stuff out. The fitech ECM is tucked away at the same place as the stock ecm = behind the glove compartment. I haven´t found a good way to hide the fuse box and I really don't feel a need to hide it.
The handheld is sitting where the radio once was. I didn't want that swan neck-thingy in my face.

Pics from the wiring in and around the engine can be arranged. Give me a couple of days. It's raining non stop over here and my car is hiding under a car cover.