Ok.. Ive got the trans bolted up and I "feel" everything is lined up ok.. Had a ton of problems with the install but I think I got it right. I havent started the car because I have a bunch of wiring to reconnect ect. ect. Anyway.. If I put the trans into gear I cant physically turn the rear wheels (the car is up on stands). I take the car outta gear... the wheels spin free. If I put the car in first and put the drive shaft in (and let it hang) I can crank the motor over by hand (with a 1/2 ratchet) the driveshaft will spin. I wanna say the trans is in correctly but I have my doubts.. What do you guys say?? Did I screw up bigtime? Also from 93 to 97 did GM use different clutch forks??? I know its a odd question but I had problems with the fork lining up..




Dan

 

I really don't understand what your question is but the rear wheels won't turn with the trans in gear because the clutch is engaged onto the input shaft splines of the trans. Depress the clutch pedal and you will find the wheels will spin freely.

 

I guess i shoulda be more clear about what happens... with the car in gear AND the clutch pedal depressed the wheels DONT MOVE... =(

Dan

 

Did you hook-up / bleed the slave?

 

I hooked up the clutch master and slave to the trans.. (I bought a clutch master and slave unit straight from the GM Dealer) As far as I can tell there isnt a way to bleed this unit..


dan

 

Okay, taking a shot in the dark here because you don't say what tranny you are using, but since you are asking about years 93-97, I will assume it is a t-56.

Sounds like the fork is not engaged on the throughout bearing. Pull the slave cylinder off again and check that the fork is engaged into the bearing by peaking in the opening that exists after removing the slave and the spacer.

Try bleeding the hydraulics though before looking at the fork. The hydraulics do not have a bleeder screw, but you can search here for a way to bleed it - hold the slave at a 45 degree angle with the piston facing dow and hose up. Depress the slave piston slowly with the reservoir cap off. repeat numerous times to ensure no air. Again, search this forum for a better "how to" description.

Good luck.

 

Presently I NEVER fixed this problem. Im 99% sure I still have air in the system.. As always I ran into other problems and had to put my t-56 swap on the back burner. I DID do searches for how to bleed the clutch but didnt come up with anything other than pull the slave out and push it in and out till your hand hurts. I tried that REPEATEDLY and it still feels like theres air in the system. After I tried it I read this thread again and Br1dgeman was saying to hold the slave at a 45 degree angle and do it.. I DIDNT hold the slave at a 45 degree angle only because I had had enough frustration for one day (without progress). Can anybody else verify that you NEED to do this to get the air out of the system??

Dan

 

The idea is t gold it so the fluid conection is the highest point of the slave cylinder - that way the air goes up to the fill reservoir and fluid takes its place in the slave.

At least that's how I bled mine after searching and reading a lot. We'll see if it worked in a day or two when I finish my conversion.

 

Again, hold the slave at a 45 degree angle - plunger to the ground, hose end to the sky. Puch plunger end in and release, try not to spill the fluid out of the master cylinder. You can also gravity bleed - let it sit as described above for a couple of days.

I still think you did not engage the fork properly into the through out bearing.....

 

Ok.. I did exactly like you said.. but sadly.. I STILL have about 2-3 inches of free play in the clutch pedal. MAYBE I didnt get the fork in right when I put the trans in. (Had the trans in and out TOO many times trying to get it right) My only concern was that it WASNT the right fork for the trans to begin with. I never got the old fork when I got the trans. Don't ask why.. its a long DUMB story. As far as Ive researched the 98-02 T-56 didnt use a fork right??? I bought a used fork from a guy on this board. Its obviously not a 3rd gen fork (no f'ing way it would work). So did GM use different forks from 93 to 97?? On a side note when you pull the "sleave" off where the clutch slave bolts to the fork pushs to the point where the slave is "flush" with the bellhousing. Does this sound right to you guys??

Dan

Dan

 

Something does not sound right. Photo please....

Also, I am not sure if there were different forks used between 93-97. If I had to guess, my answer is no, they did not.

 

What do you need pictures of? You want to see the how the fork is sitting in the trans?

Dan

 

Dan-

Yes, a photo of the slave and fork assembly as it sits in the car with no one pressing the clutch and another explaining what is happening when you press the clutch to the floor.

Thanks.

 

Yes.. I finally got pics uploaded (hopefully) I havent really posted pics on this webpage.. The problems are as follows...

~ I REALLY think theres air in the system due to shitty pedal feel. I have the 4th gen pedals in the car now.

~ With the car in the air.. clutch pushed down to the floor.. AND the trans in gear the wheels dont turn (car isnt running). I had the car running a couple months ago with everything bolt up but on stands and I could shift through the gears without a problem but when I would push the clutch pedal down (with the car running and in gear) the wheels wouldnt stop turning.. I dont know what to think...

Dan

 

I would like to see a photo from the side rather than the fork or the back of the slave cylinder.

Nevertheless, it does sound like the clutch is not disengaging.

How long has the tranny been in the car assembled to the clutch? If it was a long while between installation and getting the hydraulics sorted out, it is possible, and again I say possible that the clutch pressure plate has rusted to the flywheel. I had that happen a time or two with a Corvette I owned. The way I separated them was to push the clutch pedal in with the tranny in first, step hard on the brakes and hit the starter. Not pretty, but it worked. Food for thought.

I will hopefully have some other insights if you can get the pic I am asking for.

 

Yes.. I have seen and dealt with the pressure plate rusting to the flywheel... So I know what you're talking about.... This has been a problem since I bolted the trans up back in 6/06. I DID put a small dab of grease on the shaft of the trans (so the clutch would move nicely). Im finally making time to work on my car since winters coming... I'll post more pics tonight.

Dan

 

Yes.. I have seen and dealt with the pressure plates rusting to the flywheels... So I know what you're talking about.... This has been a problem since I bolted the trans up back in 6/06. I DID put a small dab of grease on the shaft of the trans (so the clutch would move nicely). Im finally making time to work on my car since winters coming... I'll post more pics tonight.

Dan

 

Ok.. I took more pictures of the fork ect ect... I went to push down on the fork and it fell off the throwout bearing! So I was like wtf?!?!!? So I tried to put it back on WITHOUT dropping the trans (again for the billionth time). Didnt happen. I just said screw it I'll pull the trans down and I discovered that I broke the metal tabs on the shift fork. (Those who have dealt with the t-56 know what I'm talking about. I KNOW I bent them a little when I was putting the trans in the first time but didnt think that much of it.. I really think thats been my problem for a long long time.. On a side note does anybody know torque specs of the top of their head for clutch to engine. My friend is gonna try to get a fork for me by tommarow. (He works for a GM dealer.. so MAYBE I can get to work on my car this weekend. Later..

Dan

 

If you're referring to the torque specs for the pressure plate to flywheel, most applications call for 35 ft. lbs. if I remember right.

 

pretty sure for a t-56 it was low 20's, those bolts strip and stretch easy.

 

Dan-

What is the latest on the tranny problem??

 

I posted an ad here at thirdgen.org to see if anybody wants to buy my car... Presently Ive had enough headacks with this car to last a lifetime.. So yeah.. thats how the car stands presently..

Dan

 

Its taken a while but Im finally "relaxed" enough to come back to this project. Ive come to the conclusion that I must not be installing the fork correctly. Is that little "bar" supposed to go "in" between the metal spring of the fork and the fork itself or is it supposed to "rest" on top of the metal spring. Those with the 93 to 97 T-56 trans will know what Im talking about. If anyone can draw up a simple picture as to how the bolt, "bar" and fork get bolted up to the trans Id greatly appreciate it!

Dan

 

You are putting the bellhousing on first, then the trans, right? With just the bellhousing on, you should be able to connect the slave and test it out beofre putting the trans up. My old t-5 could be installed with the bh and trans bolted together, the t-56 you cannot.

Not sure if you do this or not, but I remove the shifter when I take the trans out since it gives you alot more room to work with. Also, I jack up the motor at the harmonic balancer with a 2x4 to protect it, which allows for the motor to tilt down.

 

You bolt the little "T" thing to the transmission, through the fork; and the fork is supposed to sort of "clip" onto it. The little spring should go to the engine side of the "T", and the surface of the fork should be up against the transmission side of the "T".

The little metal clip doesn't actually "do" anything at all, once it's assembled. All it is, is an assembly fixture, to keep the fork in the right place so it's faster and easier to assemble at the factory. There's a surprising number of things on your car that are like that: not "functional" in terms of the car "working", they are merely artifacts of the production process.

When I got mine, the little metal clip was broken off the fork, so I went to the local stealership and priced a new fork. At $80, I decided I could do without it. So my fork just kind of falls out, until the hydraulics and all that are all in place and holding it secure. I had to use both hands, a foot, and my tongue or something to hold all those pieces in the right way, to bolt up the slave cyl; but it all went together, and works perfect. Of course I suppose it could fall out at any moment; but it's been a couple of years now and 15,000 miles or so, and it hasn't yet, so I'm not too worried about it.

 

Ok.. thanks for the info sofakingdom... Im 99% sure that "big" or "long" part of the "T" is towards the trans and the "short" part of the "T" is towards the engine. (I know its a weird way of describing it and I KNOW this thread and my trans should have been done a long long time again..) I havent been able to pull the trans back down due to bad weather.. ASSUMING I have the "T" piece in correctly... do I have to physically push the fork up (towards the distributor) while lining the trans up and tightening the bolt??? Because I tried pushing the fork up while tightening the bolt but I just kept thinking that the fork would slide right back down (towards the ground) due to the design of the spring inside the fork... As it stands right now... something HAS to be wrong. If I press on the fork it hits the bellhousing..



Dan

 

I'm not completely sure what you're asking...

The "T" thing should bolt onto the trans before it goes into the car. If you can get to it with the trans already up against the motor, well then I guess that's OK too.

It should go such that its "leg" is up against the front of the trans, and the "arms" are out in the open between the engine and trans. It should go on THROUGH the fork; I don't recall for absolute certain whether the fork has to be on it BEFORE you bolt it up, but for some reason I'm thinking it does. I seem to recall putting all of that onto the trans before I even slid it under the car. My T-56 manual picture of it isn't real clear either, unfortunately, but it also makes it appear so. Anyway, it would appear that you hold the fork where it goes more or less, stick the "leg" of the "T" through it, and bolt the bolt in.

I don't think the fork can come completely off the "T" once it's put together right. It can fall down to where it's not aligned right, but I don't think it can fall all the way out.

Remember, this whole deal works BACKWARDS to a traditional clutch. The fork PULLS on the throwout bearing. The load-bearing surface of the "T" is therefore the sides of the "arms" that FACE THE TRANS, and the load-bearing surface of the fork is on the side that faces THE ENGINE. If your fork has a metal spring clip on it to "clip" it onto the "T" (mine doesn't), the clip sould be on THE ENGINE SIDE of the "T", and the fork will be between the "T" and the trans. I had to hold my fork up in the right place while I bolted up the slave cyl; but once the slave cyl is in place, it always holds tension on the fork anyway, so it can't come apart, clip or no.

It IS excessively weird and hard to describe.... but it'll make ALOT more sense once you get it in right.

 

OK, here ya go; a pic I ganked off of somebody's eBay listing.

The fork is twisted around kind of sideways, obviously, since its "fork" feature is supposed to be around the clutch gear, and the end that the slave cyl goes to should be outside the trans; but this should give you a pretty clear idea of where everything goes. Note that the "T" is bolted on THROUGH the fork, and the fork can't come off.

Obviously also, the BH isn't on this one in the pic.

 

well thanks for the info.. First.. thanks for the picture.. Im confident that I have the "t" piece in that way.. For a while I was thinking that MAYBE I have to turn it around (180 degrees the OTHER WAY). Im think that MAYBE..MAYBE I had the trans installed correctly the last time but I truelly have to believe that the clutch wasnt fully engaging and disengaging. (Like I said before when I would push the clutch pedal down and have the car in gear the wheels wouldnt turn.) One time when I had the trans bolted up and I stepped on the clutch pedal I bent the metal rod thats for the clutch master.. It turns out that the fork didnt seat right and I ended up jaming the fork in the bellhousing. At this point the only thing I can think of is the clutch master/slave took too much of a beating from when I bent the linkage. The clutch master and slave wasnt used.. bought it brand new from the dealer.. What do you guys think? Thanks again!

Dan

 

I finally realized that I was installing the fork wrong. I will attach a picture of how the fork SHOULD be installed just in case SOMEONE else runs into the same problem. I was tightening the bolt with the "bar" ON TOP of the metal spring... the end result of this was that the fork engaged the throwout bearing but didnt FULLY ENGAGE AND DISENGAGE the throwout bearing. I feel like such an idiot.. I wasted way too much time, bandwith and physical energy with this problem. Thanks to all that had to suffer with me through this install process. Now.. my next question. I got the trans bolted up.. the car is in the air.. I push the clutch pedal to the floor WITH the car in gear.. the rear wheels dont turn. I KNOW its a stupid question to ask but is normal? It just doesnt seem right. I keep thinking that maybe the clutch is stuck to the flywheel. (Its a spec stage 3 clutch)

Dan

 

The wheels should turn relatively freely, even in first. If they dont turn, you wont be able to shift.

 

As of now Im 99% sure the clutch is sticking to the flywheel.. What are the odds that I can "pop" the clutch free from the trans. Its a Spec stage 3 clutch.... Any advice other than drop the trans for the 23432423423 time??

Dan

 

Odds are that something is binding or not right. Likely its either the clutch or the pilot bearing. You will probably have to pull it unless its something obvious like not enough clutch travel. I know, it sucks... I had to pull my TKO a bunch of times to get it right.