oamhmad

iTrader: (1)

I was thinking about the Dakota digital SGI 5 route with a stock electric speedo but the cost of both units ended up being the same as the autometer electric speedo. Plus I had a hard time finding a stock 160 mph electric speedo at a reasonable (less than $150) price.

Also I've heard people having calibration issues with the dakota digital box.

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

Well while that is true I re-read your post and you said you planned on changing out the rest of the gauges to match but didn't feel like spending a grand to do so. So in the interest of having matching gauges the 87+ cluster is the cheapest route. But on the other hand your dash will look amazing with a full set of autometers!

I also have about 5000 miles on my SGI 5 box without a single issue. Every time I pass a radar unit it is dead on. So far it has been a "set it and forget it" device for me.

Hello, Michael

Regarding the slave cylinder. I bought a new slave/master cylinder unit. Am I supposed to leave that shipping strap on the slave cylinder when I install it? I thought I read on one of the posts that you leave it on and it just snaps when you hit the clutch the first time. But, is it ok to have that thing stay in there? I don't think it's going anywhere, but idk.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Yes leave it on. It prevents metal on metal contact between slave and clutch fork.

oamhmad

iTrader: (1)

So after about 5000 miles on my T56 swap, the clutch master cylinder is leaking. Driveability has not been affected yet.

I noticed the leak while doing some wiring down there. This was a brand new sealed master and slave cylinder set for fourth gens from GMpartsdirect.com. Does any one know how long the warranty is for?

I used fourth gen pedals for the swap and I noticed that the angle the clutch pedal pushed the rod into the cylinder was slightly off. The rod had quite a bit of side to side play in it so I though it would be able to take the slop. Guess not. Any one else have this problem?

jvl744

Hi guys,
Ok ive read the thread and i have some questions about issues im having with my car. My 86 z28 has a t56 conv and an aftermarket electronic speedo. I want to reconnect the original speedo and i understand that part but the other issue which im not sure if it is related or if it will be corrected by reconnecting the original speedo is that the check eng lt comes on and reads code for vehicle speed sensor. My car idles high when i stop and sometimes low and stalls. Is this caused by the orig speedo not being connected and what is the best way to fix both of my issues?

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

If the engine is failing to catch the idle when it comes down it could be a failing Idle Air Control motor. My car currently has a well used one and while it works when warm. Shortly after startup when sitting for more than 24hrs it tends to be very lazy.

The other thing is yes, the PCM does use the VSS input, and will flag a code if the VSS isn't hooked up.

jvl744

do you mean the idle air control valve or the idle speed control motor

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

They are one and the same in this case. There is only one motor, and it actuates a pintle which is directly attached to the motor.

If its dirty the motor wont' be able to smoothly actuate it in the bore. If the stepper motor is lazy, it won't react fast enough.

Hello, Michael

Where can I get the torque arm busing/bracket assembly for the T-56? Everywhere I look, I can only find the bushing and not the bracket. I need the bracket, because my car had a 700R4, originally. Some guy on ebay is selling one for $75, but I think that's kind of steep.

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

Get one for a T-5 as they are the same.

Hello, Michael

Yeah, but can I find one with the brackets?

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

They are around. I'm just telling you to broaden your search and look for the T-5 mount as they are the same.

Hello, Michael

Another question I have. My clutch pedal travel seems very short. Is this normal? Maybe I'm just used to the clutch on my Cruze, but it seems very short. With the clutch pushed in, I am able to spin the rear wheels by hand though, so the clutch must be disengaging. How doe's anyone else's clutch feel?

PeterFeix

iTrader: (1)

Hi!
I bought the bracket from this seller a while ago, was very happy with the quality and especially with the nice contact and service.

Hello, Michael

I don't think my clutch is disengaging. I push the clutch in and try to put it in gear, but it won't go into gear. And as I try to shift into gear, the car starts to lurch forward. Any ideas what could be wrong? I took that little housing off that the slave cylinder bolts to, and I bolted the slave cylinder on without it, making sure that it was in the same location it would be with the housing on. I did this so I could see if the slave was moving the fork. I had a buddy hit the clutch while I watched the fork and the fork did move. Clutch pedal moves all the way to the stop on the bracket. One thing i did notice tho. I left that strap on the slave cylinder when i installed it. When i took the slave out today, i noticed that the strap did not break. I don't know if i have a bum hydraulic system or what? I don't see any leaks anywhere. It better not be bad. I spent almost $200 on it from ebay.

AnotherfastIROC

Sounds like air in the lines or slave cylinder, leep bleeding the clutch. To verify, what pedals, slave cylinder, and master cylinder (clutch mastercylinder) are you using? My bet is still on there being air in the system

Hello, Michael

I'm using pedals from a 94 Camaro Z28, and the master/slave was a prefilled, prebled GM unit i bought off of ebay. When i got it, i unknowingly took the strap off and hit the clutch. I heard that that can get air in it. I don't see any leaks anywhere. How do you bleed the system? Just keep pushing the slave rod in until all the air gets forced out?

AnotherfastIROC

well there are several ways to bleed it, there is the OEM way (check third gen haynes or other such manual. the way i foudn the most sucess is to have someone watch the resevoir and to manually press in and depress the slave cilyinder shaft making sure never to allow the fluid to completely empty in the master cylinder (if you do it pulls air in and defeats the purpose). you should see bubbles comming out. The way i beled mines was to pull the slave cylinder off the side of the trans angle it so the highest point was near the fluid line and slowly press it in as far as possible. makes sure the master is full and slowly let it out until you have about 1/2 inch of fluid above the port at the bottome of the master. do this a few times and eventually the air will begin to come out. Opetion 2 is to treatit like a wheel cylinder on the brakes, put a threaded fitting in, have person A press clutch pedal to floor, crack line slightly and allow fluid to seep out until the slave is nearly depressed all the way, and repeat.

Just noticed you bought it off ebay, did you buy it for a thirdgen camaro? and you are using it on a T56 correct? if so there is a little allen key bleeder on top of the unit it makes a mess but you can bleed through that. If it's the CAV slave and master than you have a different problem, the CAV master is too small and doesn provide enough stroke for the slave to disengage the clutch properly.

Hello, Michael

The pedals and hydraulics are from a 1994 Z28.

Hello, Michael

I'm wondering if the clutch fork is not in the right position. I tried f'ing around with it for about a half hour and it seemed to only want to go in one way. It was fairly easy to push in. Is it supposed to be? How hard is it to push into place?

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

It pushes in pretty easy and it does have a decent amount of slop when it is in. It is actually pretty hard not to get it on the TO bearing properly.

Hello, Michael

I figured I probably had it in correctly. When I drilled the holes for the master cylinder, I had the pedals installed and used the bracket as a template to position the holes, so I don't think the issue is with the placement of the master. I'm going to try and bleed the system tomorrow.

Hello, Michael

Ok, I f'd up pretty bad. The master i installed started leaking after a few pumps of the pedal, so I thought it was defected. I filled up the original hydraulics i got with the trans and bled them and then installed them. Same thing! I'm wondering if the master is installed wrong, and the angle of the dangle is all off and causing the seals to bust. I don't know how, because I used the bracket on the pedal assembly as a template to drill the mounting holes and the hole for the cylinder. I can't get the trans into gear so I'm assuming the clutch is not disengaging. Has anyone experienced this problem. I can't keep buying new hydraulics. I didn't use the U bolt for the master, just two bolts with nuts. What can I do to fix the orientation of the master? Is the firewall shaped differently in that location compared to fourth gen cars?

evo-offer

hi everyone. I´m gonna do a t56 swap when i get a camaro this winter. just wanna make sure if i´ll have got wich parts i need:

T56 tranny and rebuilt via hawks parts
pedals
can anyone recomend a good clutch kit with flywheel?
clutch master/slave cylinder
gonna use a hurst shifter
hawks tranny crossmember

have i forgot something. how did you guys do that has onyl swap to t56 tranny with the speed sensor? i saw that hawks have a electronic to mechanic converter. thoughts about that? or should i when i alreday thorn the car apart change to 4 gen dash at the same time maybe?

Dakota W.

bellhousing and if your car is computer controlled a Dakota Digital SGI-5, or if your car is mechanical, use the hawks converter you saw.

evo-offer

i´m probably gonna buy a camaro with 350 tpi/700r4 so i think i´m gonna need hawks converter. if i´ll take a t56 tranny from a lt1 engine, does it fit a tpi with the bellhousing

Dakota W.

A mechanical to electrical converter isn't going to work very well if the car has an electric vss.

Bristol

iTrader: (1)

Quick question for guys who use the brake light switch to energize the reverse lock out solonoid.... Do you wire to the switch or splice into the wiring? Does wire gage matter?

Thanks
Kris

mygta87

iTrader: (4)

Which is a good clutch set up for a t56? i got a 89 iroc with a t56 from a 97 ss i took my engine out did all my gaskets seals minus the head gaskets i put the old clutch and everything back in. Started the car up and i feel like a grinding noise when i start it up but when i drive it theres no grinds or anything. I'm thinking is the throwout bearing or pilot bearing/bushing or what you guys think it can be? any info will help on this and a new clutch set up sites for it and info on them thx.

midwest90rs

I am working on rounding up all the parts to do this conversion on my 90 Camaro. The car is originally a T5 car. The engine that i am going to put the t56 behind is an older 2pc rear main seal 350. So I know that means I need the centerforce 700107 flywheel. However I am confused about why online170 installed a LT1 starter. Does it have to do with the 153 tooth centerforce wheel compared to a 168 tooth fly wheel? The flexplate on my engine is a 168 tooth does that mean that i have to buy the LT1 starter in order for it to work with the 700107 CF flywheel that i plan on purchasing or will my original starter work just fine? I did read a couple of posts down VBMike said that online170's original starter should work. I apologize in advance if this has already been answered in this thread. Thanx to anyone for any help that they can give me.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

The LT1 T56 bellhousing fits only 153 tooth late model "small nose cone" starters. The smaller nose cone 305 / T5 starter fits. The larger nose 350 / 700-R4 Camaro starter does not. The LT1 starter fits too and is a permanent magnet, lighter, improved design starter compared to the stock third gen starters.

You need to make sure your block has the starter bolt holes CORRECTLY drilled, tapped and countersunk for the 153 tooth starter bolts. That means your block may need one bolt hole added. How should it be done? Exactly like an 85 Camaro. Which bolts to use? Ones for an 85 Camaro. Which starter to use? See above.

dellman83Z

iTrader: (9)

I just finished my t56 swap and thought I would post some of the things I ran into when doing this because this thread was a great source of info on the swap and seems everyone goes here to read up on it.

* The new gm pre bled hydraulics I bought still had some air in them and needed to be bled out some more. Also, then I first pressed the clutch in, the two straps did not break at the same time and caused the rod to shift off to the side of the fork and jam between the fork and the housing bending the rod. It was easily straightened and put back on the proper way.

* For whatever reason, the top bolt on the pedal assembly actually lined up properly, making it easy to reuse.

* I have a umi cross member mounted tq arm. They do not make a t56 swap cross member for their arm. However, you can buy the spohn cross member for the t56 and make it work easily. Make sure you order the one for the standard poly mount on the arm. The difference is that the spohn arm uses a 5/8 bolt to attach the arm and umi uses a 1/2 bolt. You just drill out the 1/2 hole on the two attachment brackets to 5/8 and then grind off some material on the bottom edge and round it out so it rotates properly. Readjust pinion angle and ready to go.

* I had to make my clutch rod adjustable. It would not completely disengage all the way down. Adjusted it up about a 1/2 or so and works great. I used 4th gen pedals.

This certainly was not that hard of a swap to do and well worth it.

Hello, Michael

Question regarding the PN switch rewiring. I just finished my swap, but haven't done any of the wiring yet. I was driving around with the PN switch in the "Park" position, and when I'd pull it out of gear it would want to die out, and often did. Then i thought to myself that maybe i should be driving it with the switch in one of the forward gear positions. So i did, and it seems to be running a little better. Does the computer kick the idle up when an auto car is shifted into drive? Is there a way to rewire it like that? I know it said two of the wires aren't used.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

As far as I know the PCM never knows what gear a manual car is in. The P/N switch is strictly for the starter disable. You wire the fat Green, and Pink wires to the two terminals on the clutch pedal switch. When its depressed the circuit closes and current flows to the starter, allowing you to start it.

When the switch isn't depressed the circuit is open and no power is sent to the starter.

Thats its entire involvement, the PCM never knows if its enabled or disabled.

oamhmad

iTrader: (1)

Yes I agree, except for the 2 top tranny to bell housing bolts. They were too darn hard to get to so I left them out. Yes I know, I'm lazy, but no problems so far.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Wow, I can't believe you would admit something like that. Way to kill a bunch of your safety margin.

I don't know why I'm surprised though, this is thirdgen.org

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

Yeah all it takes is a couple extensions...

dellman83Z

iTrader: (9)

Those top two were hard. I had to use about 2' of extensions and a wobbler, but I did get them in after some swear words were said. Not as many swear words as were said when I struggled to get the jesus clip in on the clutch rod. I dont know why I really struggled with that one. Must have been the lack if room.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I'm so glad I can look directly down and see the top two clear as day.

I don't have any wiring there at all any more.

oamhmad

iTrader: (1)

It's been a while since I did the swap and I forgot that I actually did manage to get one of the top 2 bolts in, the driver side one. The passenger side I gave up on.

Today, I crawled under today to make sure the remaining bolts were still tight. I did manage to finger tight a bolt into the top passenger side hole. But I couldn't tighten it properly.

There just is no room. I used a socket followed by a swivel joint and then a 12" extension but there was no room to get a ratchet on the end of the extension. It was excruciatingly difficult just to get the socket on the bolt. How are you guys doing this. Access hole forward of the shifter through the floor?

I had the cross member removed and the tranny basically hanging from the motor. I didn't pull the torque arm or DS though. Don't believe that will get the tranny any lower.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Box wrench from the top. Get behind the loom and it's right there.

GMan 3MT

iTrader: (4)

Is it easier to swap in a T56 into a T5 car or an automatic?

Right now I have a basket car of a '91 TBI / automatic car that I got stupid cheap, and a ton of parts from donor cars. '97 T56 and everything that goes with it (minus 4th gen pedals) and also a complete T5 setup including 3rd gen pedals that I got before deciding to go the T56 route. For the price I paid for the car, it was worth any extra hassle to of it being an automatic.

NOW, I'm toying with the idea of buying a better car to start with that won't require as much (interior and exterior) work. I've found a good canidate, but it's also an automatic. Since I'm now planning on paying a few thousand instead of a few hundred, I'm wondering if I should cut out automatics from my searches.

Since you have to notch the tunnel for a T56 anyways, is one car to start with better than the other? Yeah, you have to drill some holes into the firewall of an automatic car, but other than that is there any big differences? Wiring for a T5 car sounds a touch easier.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

If you have a complete T-5 setup that is technically easier.

But if you have a T56 right next to it, it would be stupid not to install the T56 instead. Also, you do not have to notch anything for the T56 install. But if you have an auto car you'll have to cut the hole for the Master Cylinder, and also the T56 Shifter hole. The Master Cylinder hole only needs to be close, not exact. As long as the clutch pushrod actuates in a fairly straight manner is no biggie.

Sell the T-5 stuff, do the T56 swap. use $$$ from the T-5 sale to fund parts for the T56 setup.

How complete is the T56 setup?

• Flywheel
• Flywheel bolts
• Clutch disc
• Pressure Plate
• Pressure Plate Bolts (LT1's are SPECIAL bolts, not Ace hardware, McLeod makes them PN# is in this thread somewhere)
• Pilot Bearing
• Clutch Fork
• Master/Slave assembly (Rock Auto has complete assembly at good price)
• T56 bell housing
• T56 Transmission
• T56 swap crossmember (will have to purchase or modify stock crossmember)
• Shifter
• T56 Lower Shift boot (heard of people using T-5 shift boots, part is out of production though so its a used item if you don't have it)
• Manual Pedals (3rd gen will work, but clutch pedal sits high)

GMan 3MT

iTrader: (4)

No no no. I'm doing things backwards. Basically I have the T56 that will go into a car, I just don't have the car I want to install it into!

I'm searching for a new (to me) car. Trying to guage how much better/easier it is to install the T56 into an automatic car vs a T5 car. Autos are just much more common.

I just pointed out I have the T5 stuff so that the parts aspect (use 3rd or 4th gen slave? master? pedals?) questions isn't much of an issue (like, "Start with a T5 car so you have the console and pedals!" etc). T56 setup is pretty complete. I stripped down a wrecked '97 to use the LT1, and pulled the T56 stuff out while I was there, so it's all complete, tho pedals were too puch a PITA to remove (it was a bad wreck). Still need to order a crossmember, but that's a given for either kind of car I get.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

You have to use the 4th gen LT1 hydraulics, no choice about that (the master/slave assembly)

You can use either 3rd or 4th gen pedals. But 4th gen pedals ARE better. I have 3rd gen pedals and I wish I had 4th gen pedals. 3rd gen pedals work but there are things you have to live with or alter.

As for the car? Auto's are way easier to find, even if a 5spd car would make life a little easier to do the swap. You still have to modify the clutch master hole and extend the shifter hole back.

Seriously, read this thread start to finish, and search TGO for the conversion threads and the questions/issues people have had. You'll have a more complete picture than any single one person can provide you.

L695speed

It'd be easier to go manual to manual, all you'd have to do is cut a two inch notch where the shifter hole is. Less drilling and checking your holes. I did the T5 to T56 swap using third gen pedals enlarging the hole for the pedal stud and used the cavalier Z24 slave cylinder mod. I don't have results yet due to lack of motor, but the hole for the slave is a bolt in. Pull the T5 slave out, put T56 slave in. Its a direct swap. Worst part of the whole thing is cutting your notch really.

dellman83Z

iTrader: (9)

I would have to say that if you have a manual car already, it is easier to switch to the t56. A lot of the work needed is already done. I swapped from an auto and it was not really that hard to do. Wiring I would say is about the same either way. Took me about 15 minutes to wire it up properly.

Hello, Michael

Mine was an auto too, and also have to say it wasn't that bad. With a T5 car you'll already have the hydraulic master holes there, the hole in the tunnel, and you'll use the same torque mount bracket on the trans. However, you will run into some issues using third gen pedals with the T56. Third gen pedals over throw the clutch, which causes your clutch fork to get ripped off. Some people have modified thier clutch master rods to make them adjustable. IMO, the pedals were the biggest pita, because there's not a whole lotta room to work down there with them.

GMan 3MT

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, I'll admit to only getting thru page 4 of this thread (but have read others) before posting that. Post 97 in this thread asked the same question, but didn't get much of a response.

I had a list going comparing the two.
Same

• Both require a new crossmember.
• Both require cutting a new or notching the existing shifter hole.
• Both require something for VSS to get the speedo to read correctly.**
• Both require some rewiring for cruise/reverse/neutral safety switch etc.
• Both can use the Torque Arm mount that is still on my T56
• IF I were to use the third gen pedals, I have them, they will sorta work, not the best choice.
• IF I were to use the fouth gen pedals, I'd have to find some for either car.

Different

• A T5 car, saves you from cutting the master cly hole. That's about it as
  far as I can see.

*edit*
**Ah, an Auto NEEDS the VSS signal for the ('91) ECM to control idle, where a T5 car would only uses it for the speedo.

I think the availability of automatic cars out there will over rule the extra work in cutting the holes for the shifter and master.

Thanks guys!