MacBoy24

Oh crap sorry man. I was just using this thread as reference. I just got my T56 last night so getting ready to get my clutch and flywheel. So I'm definitely glad you showed me that!!

MacBoy24

Still seems like there's not much choice. I might as well fork out the extra money for a lighter flywheel then save just a few bucks for 2x as much weight. Uhhgg.
I'll have to sleep on this one. I haven't even built my motor yet. I have like 5 blocks sitting to choose from, 2 are 1ps...not sure what I should do here.

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

No problem, am happy to share. I went with the Spec steel flywheel. The price is VERY competitive and weight is perfect for my power range 'mild stroker'.

Copchaser

iTrader: (2)

Im stuck here!! Are you still leaving these two connected to the neutral safety switch (auto)? Where does the other end of this wiring go? I understand one end goes to the back of the clutch, my car already has the connector for it (although it is for the third gen clutch), but the wires you cut from the NSS, where are they now going if they were cut from the switch? In your photo, the yellow and purple go under the radio and on to other places, where does that end up? Is it possible some cars were wired for both auto and manual?

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

The two thick gauge wires are for starter power. This switch is open when the clutch is not depressed. This means no power flows to the starter (GM's famous purple wire). When you depress the switch, it closes, and current is allowed to pass through to the starter.

Its very simple. Just connect the yellow and purple wires to the neutral safety switch mounted on the pedal assembly.

The rest of the smaller wires are not important any longer and you can follow them back and strip them out of the harness.

Copchaser

iTrader: (2)

Ok, just to make sure we are clear.... The wires coming from the NSS connector at the shifter MUST be cut? I have the connector for the clutch pedal switch hidden under the dash already. Just finished soldering the right connector for the newer black one on and installed it on the clutch pedal. If I am cutting the wires from the NSS at the shifter, where do they now go?

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

The NSS IS the same connection for the clutch pedal neutral safety switch. Can't be more clear than that.

You cut the yellow and Purple wires, then re-route them to the clutch pedal Neutral Safety switch. Same switch, same purpose, same wiring, different location.

Copchaser

iTrader: (2)

AAHhhhh ok.. Thank you. I tend to over think small things at times. I plugged the switch in and gave a test crank, all is well. I appreciate your help!

online170

Yea, like thirdgen89gta said, im not sure what the confusion is.

The part you quoted are the same wires ALL the way through. You said they go below to the radio and then where? They got to the pedal switch as shown. Two different pix, but same wire. The Auto shifter then was removed from the car.


You dont have to cut them, if you can find a different way of doing it. If your NSS is already hooked up to Third Gen pedals, and you are using the same pedals, Ignore this part complete, because your NSS is ALREADY HOOKED UP!



The NSS is IN the shifter for Auto cars, so I took the wires and routed them to the Pedal.

The NSS is on the PEDAL for Manual cars.


The goal here is to connect the Yellow and Purple wires to the pedal assembly, which ever pedal assembly you are using.

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

^^

Question about this real quick, You cut your wires. No problem. But is it possible to get a donor auto gear selector and cut the female part of the plug out and wire to that instead of cutting? (i really hate cutting factory harness) I am going to try it regardless but I figured I would ask because you have had yours apart and touched it already. I have not.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

You are cutting a HOLE in to the transmission tunnel for a shifter and you are worries about cutting the factory harness?

If you are that worried go buy the yellow/purple wire in appropriate gauge and run it to the clutch switch.

vbMike

iTrader: (2)

I just used a couple of spade connectors and stuck them into the factory harness and then ran wires to the clutch pedal.

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

I like it.
Thanks

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

All this talk of wiring reminded me...
So i really didn't like having to force reverse. Not wanting to introduce some ugly aftermarket switch or connect it to the brake or clutch pedal, i setup a stealth reverse lockout switch. So i wired the reverse lockout to the cigarette lighter. Push the lighter in and the lockout is active till the lighter pops out. That delay gives me enough time to do a 'reverse, forward, reverse' whenever needed. This may sound trivial to some but i do use reverse EVERY time i take the car out as it is backed up into the garage when i put it away.

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

berry berry sneaky.
Mind explaining how to wire this?

L695speed

I actually had a different solution. Took out the lock out solenoid. disassembled it, then took out the spring. Took the spring down a lil at a time til I could muscle the car into reverse with not too much effort. However, there is enough muscle needed that it doesn't go into reverse when downshifting from 6th to 5th. Now I need to convert it to work with an LSx motor.....

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

splice into the hot wire coming into the lighter and use that to go into the solenoid and the wire coming out of the solenoid back to the lighter

VERY nice solution!

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I'd just slave it to the brake light switch. Why? Even in spirited driving if you are doing a heel toe downshift, you'll be moving in the opposite direction of reverse. And you are less likely to be heel towing it from 6th gear, or even 5th gear.

On my car since I'm running an LT1 PCM I'm actually going to use the PCM signal that it uses in a stock 4th gen, it has code that disables the lock out at any speed below 5mph.

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

Yea i could have connected it to the brake or clutch BUT, i didn't want it activating unless i need it. Really who wants that thing clicking off and on while using the brake in traffic!

IROCUDREW

iTrader: (6)

I just wired mine to the brake switch, but I used the original cruise control plug on the switch (if that makes sense) I figured if I am really driving it and I'm shifting between 5th and 6th I have more things to worry about lol.

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

Got my swap done in 2 days. Thanks for the write up, always makes things easier when you know where to get the answers right away.
Ended up at $2389 with new hydraulics, clutch kit and flywheel. Trans was $1063 at the pic'n'pull

One thing I noticed is that the factory t56 mount and the factory 700r4 mount are different heights. You need to ask the manufacturer of your cross member, but hawks told me that they designed their long tube xmember for the factory t56 mount. It is about 1/4" - 1/2" shorter than the 700r4 mount. It actually made the trans sit weird in the car so I took it out and compared them, sure enough, they were different. I am using the stock rubber mount for now. Will change soon.

I used this method and it worked great. I had to take the spades to the bench grinder to shorten the width a bit but all turned out well.

I used a 6.5" short shift stick. Works fantastic. Had to shim the shifter over about 1 1/2" to get it centered in the console hole.

I cut 1 1/2" turns from the reverse solenoid spring starting from the very end of the coil and it wasn't enough. I am going to disassemble it one more time and cut another full turn out.

Pics



Cant remember bolt diameter but they are 1 1/2" long, worked great with 8 washers.


Factory lower shift boot


Had to fold the upper boot down because of the short stick. Doesn't look bad, IMO.

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

Hey everyone just a couple of questions

should I reuse the bolts that hold my 700r4 to the block or buy new bolts to go from the t56 to the block?

does anyone know where I can find the a t56 torque arm braket? I need one

also my t56 did not come with any of the pigtails for the plugs , which should I go out any buy? do I need all of them?

dellman83Z

iTrader: (9)

Hey everyone just a couple of questions

should I reuse the bolts that hold my 700r4 to the block or buy new bolts to go from the t56 to the block?

I just reused the old ones, worked just fine.

does anyone know where I can find the a t56 torque arm braket? I need one

I would maybe look here in the for sale section otherwise ebay is usually a good bet.

also my t56 did not come with any of the pigtails for the plugs , which should I go out any buy? do I need all of them?

I only used two of the three connections, speed sensor and backup lights. The third one is for the cags, which it looks like you would not need unless you are running an LT computer. The standard ignition numbers are tx3a for the speed sensor and s712 for the backup lights. Any parts store should be able to get them or cross them over to their numbers.

fatalicshock

So i have everything from a 97 TA even the hydraulics and pedals and my engagement is really high

camaro1185

Thats how they work in these cars. Your using 4th gen pedals?

Im working on a fix for that. I made a thread a while back on a different forum telling the difference between the 3rd and 4th gen pedals and what needs to be done to get it to engage like a 4th gen (which is also very high) basically if you have 3rd gen pedals, you have 2 options, move the master cylinder rod mount on the pedal or make a turnbuckle on your MC then you can adjust the engagement to whatever you want.

fatalicshock

i thought thats why you had to go to the 4th gen pedals so you didnt have the high engagements

dellman83Z

iTrader: (9)

Thats what I did with mine. Nice having the adjustment on the rod. Got it exactly where I wanted it to release.

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

Hey everyone , got a quick question.
What aft should I use for my t56?
And which brand do ya guys recommend?

It has 80xxx on it.
It's one of the last things I need for the swap.
I like to have everything I need for the swap before I start it , so I don't have to run out to the store or wait for the part to come in , since I am taking a couple days off from work to do the work.

fatalicshock

i also have a digital dash car and i want to get the speedo to work but there is noting about my car haveing a electronic speedo but my plug dosnt fit anything on the trans

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

I assume you meant to write ATF.
Trans calls for Dex III, should be a sticker on the bottom.
Brand? haha lets not start this argument in such a good thread!

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

Will need to be spliced in.
Probably need a Dakota box for the PPM change.

Kurtis2short

Clutch travel how much does everyone have on their swap? I just put 4th gen pedals and a stock slave master cyclinder in but it only seems that the rod moves only a half inch. Any suggestions or is that normal ?

fatalicshock

thank you i will give it a whirl

L695speed

I just finished my swap, working with ramps and stands, outside in the driveway. From start to finish, including weather, work, distractions, and other misc bullshit, it took me a week and a half, from tear down to back on the streets. To be fair, I still have to reassemble the interior, and figure something out for a speedo among other things. Was originally intended to go into my 84 TA, however, some thinking and all turned that car into a donor/parts car. Put it behind an L98 in my GTA that has an LT1 cam in it from a 97 Camaro. Will eventually swap over more things from the 84, but the fact that I had a manual car to use for reference and wiring pigtails and all helped.

Some slight differences in wiring but it was only color related, and was easily done.

Used third gen pedals from the 84, clutch safety from the 84, did the cavalier slave cylinder mod, works great, engages two inches off the floor. Sphon crossmember, torque arm mount from the 84, the T5 starter from the 84. God it was fun to drive, I came back from a quick three mile test loop with a big grin on my face. My brother who isn't a big fan of the car liked it too. I'd recommend the swap, and would do it again. Now if only me the driver can pay better attention to the engine speed while driving, too high a gear meant too low RPMs and it died......DOH! Drives brilliantly. Just gotta adjust to the car. Finally, final note, the modification to the reverse lockout I mentioned above, works ingeniously. It slips into reverse easily enough with a smidge of muscle, but it locks out reverse like intended when I don't need it. You can't mistakenly get reverse. It will only go in when you want it to. For those who want to cut the spring like I did, I apologize, I don't recall how much I cut off. Just go little by little and you'll get it.

The question I had is the CEL, it comes on after a bit. I believe because the auto trans plugs are not getting a reading, so how do I get this off?

naf

iTrader: (7)

Check your codes. You'll probably find that it's lost the VSS signal with your speedo not connected.

Hello, Michael

Yep. I'm running with my vss unplugged while I wait to get my Dakota Digital box. My CEL light comes on too. Ran my scanner and I get a input speed low code. Can't remember which number tho.

L695speed

Thanks to the both of you. I thought that the VSS may have led to the CEL. No worries then. The car runs without the CEL prior to the swap. So I'm not gonna worry much about the motor.

I'm debating on what to do about the speedo because initially it was going in the 84, long story short, it was going to be cheaper to swap the roof (don't start with me on it, here in the northeast they're hard to come by rot free, and I have a clean one anyway). Than it was gonna be to repair all the rot. So that is what is happening. I'll redo the interior from Tan to Charcoal Grey, reupholster the GTA seats in the 84's color scheme. Dash will likely be swapped as well.

The speedo is up in the air, I could run the cable, or electronic. THe cluster however is not a straight swap. Fuel and Oil Pressure guages are flipped opposite diagonally. Unfortunately, I also found the wiring diagrams, It would be a job to get them repinned for the 84 cluster. So the idea of running a refaced 160 speedo may be out. So, since the tailhousing is capable of doing either route, I'll have to think on what I want to do.

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

If you want cable drive, you can contact Dan aka Alloy here on TGO. He markets his service at t56cablespeedometer.

Or over at LS1Tech, look up "Chicago TDP"....
Here is another thread with pictures of Dan/Alloy's work, with Adam/ChicagoTDP discussing it.

Here is Adam's swap, and the money shot from that thread.

L695speed

I already had it done, point is, the way he does it you could run either setup. I went to Dan and he did my conversion maybe two years ago. I guess in the end it depends on a few choices I make with my interior. There are details I like about the 84 interior over the later one. Problem is, the console is not a direct swap with the later dash. The other issue is the cluster is not a direct swap either even without the speedo issue. I'll have to either repin the connectors or swap the connectors to run the other cluster.

L695speed

Just thought I'd check in with more feedback. I took it out with the NY third gen guys on their Power Tour. Over 300 miles, no issues, if there were issues (only one gear change **** up and it was on me for getting lazy) It was self inflicted. Clutch was nice and light thanks to the Cavi Slave, I had long since figured out my tach so the speedo is a non issue. For me 1500 in 6th is 62-64 MPH. 1100 is 42ish. Avg MPG on that trip, went though the roof, with an LT1 cammed L98, that is in need of a tune and head work, I avg at least 23-25 MPG, note, that is combined driving. I probably have easily close to 1000 miles on the swap. Loving every bit of it. If you're even thinking about doing the swap, just go ahead and do it already. I have 3.70 gears in the car now, will probably change to the 3.73 10 bolt once I finish the PBR swap on that.

Note to those who want to do the swap, if you have access to a manual third gen car, particularly with the five speed hydrualic setup, for parts, you can use just about everything. Reverse light wiring uses the same connector for the T5 and the T56, I used the third gen pedals for ease of install, cavi slave compensated for that, all the clutch safety wiring etc, I just swapped over and spliced in the wiring. Cut enough of the wiring so you can use it. Cut long, trim after. Also, even the shift **** can be used. ALl the misc stuff can be adapted or used directly as is between the T5 and T56. The major components are not compatible, but the stupid things like the lower shift boot can be used. However, if you really want to make it easy on yourself, just use the manual car for the basis of the swap. That was my initial plan, however, all the rot had other plans....

EchoMirage

iTrader: (2)

i have a possible swap question. i have an 87 camaro, blueprint 383, 450hp/470tq, 1pc RMS. it was originally a T5, still has one in it; i assume a junkyard non-WC model. its currently leaking fluid like a sieve. even while idling, it drips out. while driving, it pours out. from where, i'm not sure yet. i know any T5 wont handle that power, but the crossroads im at is this:

its a race car, built for tracks days (road course, NEVER see a drag strip). It'll see extremely limited street use. the track days arent a full-out race, so no need to go 110%, when 90% is just as fun. it may see anywhere from 5-10 track days per year, time and money depending. the interior is stripped and gutted. not a single sensor, hvac, or anything computer controlled left. there is no NSS, the starter works off a push button on the console, no reverse lights.

i can get a built WC T5 with bulletproof gears (i know the case is the weak spot) for around 1300. the car already has a spoon torque arm/shaft loop/trans mount for the T5. i also currently have the entire setup, every single piece/wire/bolt/pedal, from an 02 TA, LS1 T56, with under 30K miles.

is it worth it to get a built T5 -that im fairly sure can handle several years of track days- for 1300; or do a T56 swap, and have to buy a new torque arm, trans mount, adapter plate, etc for the job?

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

I cut exactly 2 1/2 coils (900° of spring from start to cut) and it is the perfect amount. Enough force to eliminate accidents yet soft enough for that "almost factory" feel.

Echo,
The T56 is oriented towards the street guys. Like mentioned above, 23-25 mpg with 3.70 gears appeals to a lot of people that use their thirdgens as DD's.
That said, I'm not sure what spec your T5 will be built to, the T56 is rated just under your engines power output. Meaning to be safe, you would require a rebuilt of some sort which = extra $$
In the end, as I see it, an upgraded T5 is your better option provided you can get it to handle the engine you have.

EchoMirage

iTrader: (2)

ive been looking into a built T5. many companies offer them to hold over 5-600hp, but none of them offer any kind of guarantee -other then maybe a 12mo warranty- on the case itself. one company i talked to said the gears can easily handle the power, but they cant say the case wont stretch in a year or two.

im really hoping a built T5 for 5-8 track days a year will last me at least several years, or until i decide im definitely keeping the car or not. i know CMC and AI cars run a WC T5 for a full season, on stock power, and that includes banging gears very hard, every race. the occasional track day should be much easier on the trans. plus theres no need to mess with a conversion.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

The CMC guys are also is fully stripped cars that are much lighter than stock cars to go with the stock engines. So they tend to put less stress on the system. And I believe they have to run a T5 because thats what the cars could come equipped with.

Modded engine will increase the stress on the case.

For the money the T56 is the better swap. Stronger transmission, and an extra gear. The initial extra money spent is made up when the transmission doesn't break as fast.

EchoMirage

iTrader: (2)

my car is also stripped. theres nothing in it, including much of the harness. motor, trans, rear, one seat, switch panel controlling ignition, start, fuel pump, fan, and tach. i already had the car as nothing but a rolling chassis, and now that i finally got it running and driving, i dont feel like doing more major surgery with a T56 swap, including a new torque arm, trans mount, pedals, etc. i wanted to finally be able to use it.

i dont care about another gear. 99% of its life will be on track, with extremely limited street use. if i didnt have to convert to a manual clutch and god knows what else, id use a 4sp T10 instead. 5th and 6th gear is near useless to me.

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

To give you an Idea, I did my swap from a 700r4 to T56 in two full days, from driving it in the garage to driving it back out. It was my first transmission swap ever also. Its really not that hard, most people get hung up on not having all the parts they need when they get it tore apart.
I think the 4 spd tranny would be a good idea, just not sure what the market has to offer as far as strong 4 speed transmissions.

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

You can use hydraulic clutch with the T10. Before my upgrade I had converted my T10 using a hydraulic TOB and WOW it was awesome. That little T10 never worked better. I used a Ram 78125HD bearing with a Ram 510 Adjustable master cylinder.

EchoMirage

iTrader: (2)

theres lots of T10 options around, and they can handle any power you throw at them. only question is cost, and how much more do i want to screw with this car. im thinking it wouldve been easier to do a mild motor, instead of doubling the power. but when i bought it, i figured i might as well get a good one and not wish i had more hp. so i wound up with 450hp and no trans to hold it.

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

True there are many options but the T10 is still cheaper to setup then a T56. I know cause i've done it. With a few upgrades the T10 handled my 450hp just fine. I beat on that thing for 13 years and 3 motors and still couldn't break it. I will admit it did get a little sloppy the last couple of years. As luck would have it, after selling it, UPS broke it during shipping... LOL It's also cheaper and easier to repair and maintain then a T56. Am not trying to talk you into a T10. Just sharing my experience with both.

EchoMirage

iTrader: (2)

thats fine, thats what im looking for. this is a major crossroads for the car, which could end up costing several grand one way or the other.

what kind of T10 did you use. it still had external linkage? did you keep 3rd gen pedals, and howd you set up the clutch?