ChevyRS-305

[QUOTE=sofakingdom;3565187]

If your motor is a 1975 block, it is 2-piece rear main seal. The 1-pc did not appear until 1986.

Therefore, the flywheel you have WILL NOT WORK!!! You'll need the $special$ "swap" one, onyl made by a few mfrs. Centerforce 700107 is one such part. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...t=CTF%2D700107 That's the same one I used.

so i have a 1- piece rms... does that mean i can use a regular flywheel and clutch from a 4th gen on my 88 gen I block?

L695speed

[quote=ChevyRS-305;5369431]If you have a one piece RMS you can use the stock flywheel and clutch from an LT1 4th gen.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Yes! Looks like Hawks is producing a T56 lower shift boot. This is one of the hard peices to find. Most junkyards rip these when they get a hold of them and remove the transmissions. Which makes them junk for the purpose of keeping noise/fumes/water out from the car.

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/pr...roduction.html

And the price doesn't look bad. I paid $50 for mine NIB used and it took me near 5 months of patiently waiting as I missed these by hours in the classifieds.

vbMike

iTrader: (2)

I believe I got mine brand new from either the dealer or www.gmpartsdirect.com

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Last time I checked it was out of production. I could find one through any of the GM dealers around here.

mcafee89formula

Decided to go a different direction. Looking for a 93-97 Trans am automatic. I don't care if the tranny is shot. My tranny guy will make me a mean tranny. So up for sale is an 89 formula 350. Completely stock with 89,000 miles on. Make me an offer. Just want it gone. Like $1,200 bucks. T-tops good seals its red and currently in the paint shop. WS6 package. Garage kept. Not 1 spot of rust. Just bought it off a guy from Alabama. I'm in central pa. Make me a reasonable offer and its yours. Brand new 245/50zr16s. My number is 814-280-8205 thanks

ChevyRS-305

Guy here in St.Louis is selling a 93-97 t56 for $1000 on craigslist. It would be worth the drive http://stlouis.craigslist.org/pts/3359838208.html

mwfrels

I'm not sure but It reads to me like he means he is looking for a 93-97 TransAm car with an automatic transmission.

M

ChevyRS-305

He specifically said "up for sale" i even messaged the guy for kicks and giggles. $1000 is a steal. I luckily had a buddy who had a t56 laying in my garage from his 95 and sold it to me for $900 and thats on the buddy system.

yellowsnow

I am thinking about doing this swap, but I known how confusing "as you go" threads get.

Can someone please give a summary of unexpected problems involved in this swap and most difficult part, please?

camaro1185

I am literally in the process of doing my swap now. I am at the point of cutting the shifter hole and putting the tranny in, after that I will be done. So far, NOTHING has been un expected and very straight forward.

What you have to decide and it is personal preference is what route you will take for your speedo (mechanical conversion, converter box etc).

The shift lock cable (remove it, cut it, leave it etc. I haven’t decide yet for me).

The reverse lockout (I decided NOT to run the reverse lockout on my brake pedal so that I dont accidentally hit it when downshifting from 6th. For now Im going to run it un hooked, maybe down the road I will hook it up to a toggle switch, maybe not. ).

The correct prom to use so that the car doent keep looking for a TC lockup ect (I read somewhere about using the ARAP bin and just copying in the timing and fueling tables of your motor. That’s what im going to do.)

The hatch button. (if left as is, it can be popped at any point. You may want to wire it to the ebrake the way the factory manual trans cars had it done)

Lastly, the exhaust hanger (will that just bolt right up from an auto tranny???)

caffeine

iTrader: (2)

I would just say when you get your trans and clutch/flywheel, make sure everything is included. Sourcing all the small stuff seperately adds up quickly. Things to make sure you get include the clutch fork, slave spacer, and shifter. If you don't get your clutch setup new, make sure you get the TOB with it. I ended up having to source my slave cylinder and TOB seperately.

I had never changed a clutch or installed a transmission when I did this so I didn't at first understand how to get the clutch fork on the TOB during install. Simply slide the fork away from the trans to install, then afterwards slide it back and make sure it is on the TOB.

For me the most difficult part was getting to all the bellhousing and trans bolts. Everything is pretty straightforward. To drill my master cylinder holes I just bolted up the pedals and used them as a guide.

caffeine

iTrader: (2)

Oh and some torque arms have the lips facing different directions so just make sure the mount on the trans is the correct one

camaro1185

I got to agree, removing the auto bellhousing bolts has been the toughest part to this point. That and hanging up-side-down under the ds area to mount the pedals. I removed my seat to mount the pedals and it made it a lot easier, but prepare to spend a lot of time on your back and contorting your body into weird positions to get the pedals mounted.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Its really not that hard if you have a decent pen light you can hold with your mouth (not kidding), and a swivel adapter. Though a ball socket adapter might be a little better with its limited range of movement compared to a swivel.

I agonized over the master cylinder holes, but once I had drilled them I realised it really didn't matter very much if I was dead on or not. As long as you are close the pivot built into the master rod will account for any mistakes you made.

My T56 cut-out was SPOT on. Slightly tight on the back edge but it was just about perfect. Crazy how big the stock cut-out is for 4th gens, its HUGE.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8307/7...88174e5d_o.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8301/7...4f2b69a7_o.jpg

camaro1185

What did you use to cut the shifter hole? I read somewhere a sharp set of tin snips would even do it.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

used a 1" hole saw for the 4 corners, then a dremel to cut between them. My friend later snipped some metal with a set of tinsnips which is why the back looks like snips were used.

KingsHustleLA

Sometimes I see T56 transmissions on 93-97 camaros in the junkyard and I wanted to know if there are any ways to tell if the transmission is still in good working order? Also can someone just give me quick bullet points of. Everything needed to go from an auto 700r4 to a T56 on a '90 iroc-z with a TPI? And can I use a 3rd gen clutch pedal or do I need to get 4th gen pedals? I've heard both work but some say this one or that one works better and i just wanted to have that cleared up. Thanks

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

pilot bearing,flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing, fork.
transmission, bellhousing, hydraulic cylinder spacer, driveshaft yolk, crossmember.
shifter, lower boot (seals shifter to floor), console plate/boot,
hydraulic master/slave, pedals. wiring for reverse lights and revers
torque arm (4th gen is shorter) and mount.

I believe the 3rd gen clutch has a longer stroke than the 4th gen, which will cause the slave cylinder to over-travel and blow apart. Also, the 4th gen stud is smaller than the 3rd, so you will have enlarge the hole on the master rod. If you do stick with the 3rd gen pedals, one possible solution is to use a 4-cyl Cavalier slave cylinder (4th gen cylinder = 7/8", Cavalier = 1"+?), to reduce the pedal/master/slave ratio, to take up the excess fluid/travel.

Possibly solutions are:
a) 4th pedals, master, slave
b) 3rd pedals, 4th master, Cavalier slave.

Read the first 11 pages of this thread, and do some more searching/browsing/reading in the Transmission forum and you can find all sorts of examples and information. Such as...this or this or this

Read about proper bolts or get them here if you are piecing a package together.

Joe

caffeine

iTrader: (2)

I went from 700r4 and swapped to an aluminum driveshaft as well so I didn't change the yolk, but the driveshafts seemed identical anyway. I believe the stock driveshaft will bolt up.

Also for me, I'm still using the stock torque arm; I didn't have to change the torque arm and even the mount on the transmission was correct. Maybe it's different for th-350 cars?

I'm also using the 5 speed 3rd-gen pedals and I bought brand new 4th gen hydraulics. They fit perfectly and I've never had any problems with that setup; I remember just having to drill out a plastic bushing on the 4th gen master to fit the 3rd gen pedals.

whiskypig475

can anyone tell me if this will be an easy swap,I have a 1982 z28 with a mild 350 an a700r4 tranny.I have a chance to buy a 1989 firebird formula with a 305 5spd.I want to put the 5spd in my 82.will the pedals fit without any major fabrication?will my speedo cable work in the 5spd tranny,will the cross member bolt up without any mods?my 350 is a 4bolt main 2 piece seal.my 350 is carbed so I have no computer issues.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

This is a t56 swap thread not a T5 swap thread. Review the t5 swap threads and make a new post if your questions aren't already answered by the stickies.

While some parts of the swap are similar as well as the processes, other parts vary and as such keeping T5 swap info to T5 threads cuts down on confusing posts in the T56 threads. See where I'm coming from?

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

Ok so I need some advise from all you guys that have done this swap.

What would you do differnt if you where going to do this swap again? Like better slave? Reverse lockout contole box,remote bleeder ? Skip shift eleminator ? Different shifter? 4th gen console and so on ?


Remote bleeder : http://www.speedwaymotors.com/T56-Re...der,41385.html

Also what are you doing about the CAGS with the skip shift ?

http://www.nookandtranny.com/mm5/mer...egory_Code=WIR
Revere lock out : http://www.samocoind.com/T56Module.html

vbMike

iTrader: (2)

Originaly I went with a Spohn crossmember and torque arm. The torque arm was too noisy and the cross member was too low to the ground. I ended up swapping it a year later to a factory torque arm and Skulte crossmember. I used a Hurst shifter and I believe a Hayes Street strip clutch. Both of which I'm pleased with.

My only complaint now is that I'm still running the auto tune. When you clutch to shift the idle drops down too fast causing the shifts to not be as smooth unless I shift quickly. My attempt to convert to a manual bin was unsuccessful. If there is anyone out there that can help me with that drop me a PM.

caffeine

iTrader: (2)

If I was doing it again, I think the only thing I would change is hooking up the reverse lockout solenoid. It can be wired to the brake pedal. If you don't wire it up it just takes a little extra force to put it in reverse.

You can buy the LT1 hydraulics pre-bled so you shouldn't need a bleeder and apparently they're designed to self-bleed anyway (no bleeder on factory hydraulics).

The Hawks crossmember probably allows the most ground clearance and exhaust clearance (which is the crossmember I have).

You don't need a skip-shift eliminator unless you're running a 4th gen PCM and can't tune it. Just don't wire it up. The LT1/LS1 PCM will probably throw a code if it isn't hooked up but it can easily be tuned out.

Personally I'm not a fan of the 4th gen consoles and if you have a Firebird and a short shifter then it will fit in the stock auto shifter plate. I bought a Hurst comp short shifter off eBay for barely over $100.

vbMike

iTrader: (2)

I hooked the reverse lockout to the break pedal switch and it works awesome. The only time I have an issue is when I get off the interstate I'll be in 6th and downshift to 5th on the off ramp and I usually have my foot on the brake so if I'm not careful I'll hit reverse. I've made it grind a few time but do damage.

Also if you have cruse control you'll want to hook up a switch to the clutch pedal so that it turns cruse off it you were to push in the clutch to prevent the motor from red lining.

I used the 4th gen pre-bled hydrolics. The pedal is a bit heavy but I think that's due to the 3rd gen pedal set and Hayes clutch. I don't think it's that bad though. Similiar to some of the older linkage style clutches without all the play of course.

For the camaro console just swap out the shift plate on top for the 5 speed one. Looks and works great!

Ed1LE

iTrader: (39)

And then ad the 6-speed shift pattern sticker from Hawks for a nice factory appearance.

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

Caffine- can you post up a pic with the hawks crossmember? Also what exhuast are you running?
I've herd the reverse lock out is bad to hook up to the break pedal is this true?

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

"bad" is there are some circumstances you are aiming for 5th or 6th and could hit reverse, such as:

1) As vbMike said:2) In another thread I've read... you are doing a high speed run. You get off the gas, hit the brakes to slow down from triple digits, and upshift to 5th to drop your RPMs, and you have the potential to hit reverse... at high speed. Or try to upshift to 6th to drop RPMs, the shifter goes too far right, and you wonder why you can't pull back to select 6th.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Should work for 5spd firebirds as well.

For auto cars you can just cut out the PRNDL indicator on the left side of the top plate. Fits just perfect. Only issue there is running a upper shift boot.

There is a guy here on TGO who did it.

vbMike

iTrader: (2)

It wasn't bad to hook up the reverse lockout to the break pedal. Here is what I did. I unplugged the wiring harness connector from the break pedal switch. Somehow I was able to open the wiring connector. Must have been a clip or tab on the side. Inside the wires were crimped onto spade connectors I believe. I took my wire, wrapped it around the outside of the spade connector and soddered it into place. It's a solid connection and I didn't have to cut into the factory wiring and it can easily be removed anytime with some heat. The plug then snapped back on and I reconnected to the break switch. In my car I believe it was the middel wire you need but can't remember for sure.

online170

If I were to do it again; (THIS swap, this car, and this trans)

1) I would be much smarter about WHERE I purchase. Try to get as many of the parts at one place as possible, it will help you save in the end by getting little items thrown in for free on a used package deal. DO NOT buy wear parts used, like clutch, and hydraulics. Some get lucky, I did not. I could have saved a couple $100 if I just bought them new, instead of unuseable used ones first, then new ones.
2) Buy the SPOHN X-member bare, cut off the 1 flange that makes everyone say they wont use it, then paint it with a quality rust inhibiting paint.


Not really changes, but things I did unknowingly that I would keep EXACTLY the same;
1) Carburetor! As seen above, the TPI brings in all sorts of issues. Things like skipshift, I never dealt with, and im glad.
2) Reverse lockout NOT wired up! This was great for me, because it gave me extra assurance I wouldnt accidentally go into reverse on the highway. I also didnt mind fighting the shifter. I ended up liking it better this way.
3) 4th gen Pedals. They are different feeling from 3rd gen, but I liked that I could rest my heal on the floor and still reach the pedals. Its how I drive and I prefer it. The 3rd gen pedals I had in later, and I never got used to them.
4) Regular ATF. I have heard horror stories about synthetic ATF. I think any savings in rolling friction would be minimal, and the higher cost and risk is not worth it IMHO.




Other than that, I think I would keep it exactly the same. Was financially pretty cheap. Went together easy. I had done most of my Homework and it paid off.

caffeine

iTrader: (2)

Sorry I don't have a pic of it installed but I had a y-pipe made to fit around this crossmember from Hedman longtubes into a dynomax axle-back 2.5" exhaust.
From all the crossmembers I have seen this is probably the one with the most clearance for exhaust.

If you want my y-pipe you can pm me since I'm doing another motor swap and not using it. One side of the y-pipe is removable so the trans can be dropped without dropping the exhaust.

On the note of skip-shift with TPI:
TPI computers don't have a way to control the skip shift anyway so not hooking it up does nothing with the computer. Only people with ls1/lt1 swaps would have a computer that can work with the skip-shift but since they will probably be removing VATS anyway it would only take an extra 10 seconds to disable skip shift...

I haven't ever had reverse lockout working so I can't comment on hooking it up to the brake.

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

I thought I might add something I found out tonight. Ever since I put my car together my clutch has had a really bad chatter. I suspected it was the flywheel runout being .010 out so I dealt with it. Tonight I pulled the trans from the car as it was leaking out of the top plate in front of the shifter. While I had it out I spun the throwout bearing just for the heck of it and I noticed a really bad wobble. So I decided to pull the clutch out to get the throwout bearing out. I noticed the wobble was that the part the clutch fork pulls on was very uneven. So I decided to "adjust it" with a hammer on the bench and straightened it out as best I could.

So after I get it all together I go to back out of the garage and I instantly notice the chatter is nearly 100% gone. The clutch was smooth and there was no pulsation in the clutch pedal. After a quick drive I noticed it shifted much smoother as well. So basically what was happening is the clutch fork was pulling one side of the throwout bearing first making an uneven engagement.

I wish I had taken pictures and I usually do but I really didn't think I was fixing anything. So if you have a clutch that chatters the next time you have the trans out take a close look at the throwout bearing. You may also notice heat marks favor one side of the pressure plate. This would indicate the pressure plate engaging unevenly caused by the throwout bearing. My flywheel on the other hand had perfectly even wear marks.

I hope that helps someone out there.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

My clutch has always chattered, I'll be sure to take a close look at that next time.

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

Just a small update on the throwout bearing issue. Soon after my last post the clutch got really bad. It chattered so bad it was underivable. So I pulled it apart yet again to find this:



What I found was that when you take the slave cylinder out the pushrod works its way out. And since there is no bleeder there is no way to "reset" it and bring it back. What had happened is the whole time I had been driving the car the throwout bearing had pressure on it causing it to fail. So what I ended up doing was pop the line off the back of the slave and let it relieve the pressure on the pushrod and letting the throwout bearing fully relax.

This is not an issue when the system is new as it has the plastic straps holding it all together. But after those straps break there is nothing to hold the rod in place.

Anyway I installed a new throwout bearing that was perfectly straight and the clutch is smooth as silk again. I bought one of those Bahnhof pressure plates and throwout bearing. I didn't need a new pressure plate but it was cheaper to buy them together than just the bearing alone. Plus the Bahnhof bearing is much higher quality than the one that came with the brute power clutch. Which reminds me I have a brand new LT1/LT4 bahnhof pressure plate. It is just a stock plate painted orange. It has the same casting number that my brute power clutch has. So if you need one let me know.

Donnie(91rs)G

question for you guys, does anyone have a posi rear end gear for a 91 camaro rs or know of a place i can order one? this one wheel wounder crap is gettin old

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

3rd/4th gens used 10bolt.

Done.

Or you can spend a grand or two on a 12bolt/9".

38Proof

Brand new to this website......never used one before....forgiveme if this is not right to respond.
I am trying to build a street rod with a t56 6sp transmission out of a 97 Trans Am. My question is.....will this bolt up to my 348 big block? Anybody seen this done before? Is this a crazy idea?

alloy

iTrader: (16)

Yes it will bolt up. The 348-409 is just an early version of the BBC. You will have to use a 1 piece RMS flywheel.

Do yourself a favor and read this thread from start to finish. There is a lot of great information. Not all of it pertains to your application, but you will have a lot of your questions answered by reading it.

You will need a way to drive your stock cable speedometer. I do a mod to the T56 tail housings to drive a cable speedometer. I have a lot of good feedback here on my conversion. When you get to that point let me know and ill help you with that.

www.t56cablespeedometer.com

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

Guys this thread ROCKS. I got my t56 in this week WITH lot's of help from this thread. This swap gave me an excuse to detail the bottom of the car as well. MY 82 bird was a 4 speed car so it already had a shifter hole but this tranny sits so far back that i had to mod the hole. Hope to finish this up by next week. Here's a couple of pics...

38Proof

Alloy...........you're awesome! Thanks for the quick response. I am new to the posting and website but my son-in-law is a partaker for several years and refers to this site all the time. I looked at this transmission last night...seems tight and able to shift thru all gears. Just a little bit of play in the very front shaft....probably normal Guy wants $1000 for it as it was rebuilt not long ago. I was/am skeptical as "they're" all rebuilt not long ago. Ha. Anyway, based on your post, I am going to pick it up today. Will I have to run a hyd clutch with this application? I am getting the bell housing, a "fairly" new clutch and pressure plate....thrown in. You know how these Craigslist things go......
Anyway, it appears this guy kinda has his gearhead on straight as there was a 69 Camaro in the garage he's been working on for years, it appears. The 97 Trans Am WS6 in the driveway....Im'a thinking it should be ok.
Again....thanks for your help. I will read thru this post as it does seems to be chocked full of tech info I will need in using late model gears on old school block.

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

I finished her up yesterday and went for a ride. I had to restab the fork 4 times before i got it right. If i push the clutch pedal to the floor, the fork will hit the pp BUT, rather then put a Cavalier slave i just reached under my dash and adjust the throw on my Ram adjustable mc SHWEEEET. This transmission feels like it was designed for my setup '383sbc - 3.42 posi'. So smooth and soo comfortable. Thanks again for this thread which provided TONS of tips and information. I'm sure i mentioned this but i also did a undercarriage makeover before doing the T56 swap. I'm no TwinTurbo or Spike as far as detail and quality but i spent less then $100 on materials for the makeover. Here is a teaser pic...

Ed1LE

iTrader: (39)

Wow, that looks fantastic! Great job!

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Ed. After finally driving it i heard two thumps. Both under extreme conditions. When suspension is fully compressed in the rear, the upper torque arm mounting plate on the rear end was hitting the undercarriage. With a little 'persuasion' i was able to put a dimple there. The other thump was when the suspension was fully extended. The torque arm would rub the mount bolt for the brake and fuel line bracket mounted on the driver seat belt screw mounting plate. I removed the bracket holding the lines and bent it a little back. It now has a little more then a 1/4" clearance. With that now working fine i enjoyed driving it around all day. No thump or bump. No vibrations at any speed... weeee!!!

online170

Thats a clean looking undercarriage you got there!

How did you accomplish that?

MacBoy24

Man there is a ton of good info here. Thanks for all of you guys taking the time to post up this stuff. I just bought a 92 maro and the biggest thing on my mind is getting a t56 in. This answered like 95% of my questions. The wrest will be answered once I start doing it myself lol.

Good stuff!

online170

Hey guys;

The car in this thread that I did the T56 swap on, is for sale. I dont know the guy selling but I know the car very well. So if youre looking for info on the car, I have lots.

http://barrie.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehic...AdIdZ462507378

MacBoy24

All 3 flywheels that have been suggested in this thread have clearly gone up in price since 2010ish
Almost 2x as much now.

Ram 2555
700107
198661

They are all 420+ now....
Just a fyi. I guess they were 250ish before. That's a bummer.
Going to do some research for another route...I doubt it's there.

(2ps rms peeps)

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

Did you see my list?...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...-flywheel.html