anesthes

iTrader: (12)

There is absolutely no way this pilot bushing/bearing is causing interference with the torque converter, right? Like the hub on the converter indexes on the larger spot of the crank, and the bearing is quite countersunk?

I'm trying to figure out why my converter won't go all the way into my crank. I need to put 1/4" washers in between the flex plate and the converter.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Looking at that, I'd say, no.

Does look like the pilot on the converter is unusually tall though. Nothing else looks wrong, converter looks like it's all the way in, flex plate isn't backwards, etc.

What happens if you take the converter out of the trans and put it up on the motor by itself? And, if you put the trans to the motor without the converter?

tealman92

Looks like the center is a larger diameter on the tc then the hole on the crank. I would measure both and see what they are and also the depth.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I didn't notice the problem until I tried bolting the converter. I didn't measure the hub vs the crank, or try test fitting it.

Getting the trans back out is an epic PITA with the long tube headers. I put washers between the converter and the flexplate, but I don't know if that was a great idea...

The only thing I didn't try was taking a big bar and trying to pry the converter into the crank.

This car is driving me crazy..

-- Joe

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

That's its JOB. I guess all is well.

I'd suggest a few other less invasive approaches before the pry bar, for sure.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Is there a standard like, if I push the converter all the way into the trans (th350), is there a set measurement it should come back out so I can know if the problem is the hub or the anti-balooning plate welded in the wrong spot?

The guy who makes the converter was absolutely no help. (freakshow). I mean, maybe shims/washers are acceptable. I just. Don't want it coming up through the floor at 6500 rpm.

-- Joe

redneckjoe

i wondered if the flexplate bolts were touching the converter? maybe a thin piece if cardboard like from a notebook could be slid in there to see if they're touching the converter?

i've used washers for many years. been told its sort of blueprinting the clearance. about 1/8" play is what i shoot for. if its too tight in the tranns you'll eat the pump.

IDK if there'd be any help in here for ya?
https://static.summitracing.com/glob...sum-700333.pdf

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Or,... if it's not far enough in the pump.


I NEVER worried about 'indexing' the TC when slapping stock thirdgen stuff together. Then I bought a Trailblazer and learned about it the hard way !!

1/8" is recommended. http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-ATnki9WUM


The nose on that converter does look big !!

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

After looking closely at it, it looks like the trans is all the way against the engine.

Does the converter pull out easily to meet the flex plate? Or at least, come fairly close? (since it's possible that the flex plate just needs to be "flexed" a little toward the converter while the pilot is buried in the crank, which a small amount of is OK) If so, the pilot is fine. Just add some shims to take up some of that space.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

You say the assembly is a pain, so probably the least work would be pull the trans. and measure stuff to find the interference. Especially the crank. And possibly sand the paint(?) off the pilot of the converter.

MSgt Luttrell

Try loosening the bolts holding the transmission to the block and wiggling the transmission. The converter nose may not be perfectly centered on the crank shaft causing it to bind. And for the record, I've always removed the pilot bearings from a crank when swapping from a standard transmission to an auto; that said, I'm not sure if it being there will cause interference or not, but it's possible.

By the way, what torque converter is that? I've never seen one like it used on a SBC and the nose diameter could be suspect.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I have not had a chance to look at this more.

It's a Freakshow converter.

I'm going to try and tinker with it more this weekend. Just been a heck of a week.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

So the torque converter whacks the flexplate bolts. It has probably 1/8-3/16 left to go.

I'm going to measure how far it comes out of the trans.

-- Joe

jmd

iTrader: (4)

That sounds like it could be 4 tenths too long; intended for an LS maybe.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

What would be too long? If the flexplate bolts are hitting the converter before it bottoms out, wouldn't that mean the pilot is too short?

-- Joe

redneckjoe

if you take up the slack with some washers, do you still have at least an 1/8" that you can shove the converter back into the pump? in other words, your not forcing it tight into the pump? if so, i'd run it.

i guess the only other option is to pull everything apart and grind on the 6 bolts in the flexplate? that would suck.

i would'nt be scared to run washers if you have to. its a common practice. obviosly try to use all the same type washer so it doesnt throw anything slightley out of whack or balance.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Just making sure we're on the same page;

I took your statement to mean the flex plate bolts holding it to the crank are being hit by the round centered pilot of the converter. If that's the case;

Given 99% of the LS cranks are short style and 0.400 further "into" the
Shortblock, this would seem to be the application for which the converter was built. So I think the pilot in the center of the converter on the engine side is too long. Hope that was clear as clear can be.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

No sorry, the flexplate bolts that hold the flexplate to the crank are hitting the converter in the area indicated by the red circles:




The only way to prevent that is by running .120" washers between the converter and flexplate.

Today I'll check to see how far out the converter is pulled to see if I have the 1/8-3/16" as suggested.

I also found this link:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-...plate-gap.html

Which appears to be the same brand converter (freakshow)

-- Joe

redneckjoe

I've had to run as much as 3 washers a few times. Gluing the washers together with a little RTV silicone and letting them set up, can be helpful when trying to get them in there. It's also possible that you may need longer converter bolts when using a few washers.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

So with the converter all the way into the transmission, I've got .190" from the pads.

When pulled all the way forward until it hits, I've got .040".

So I threw a .060" washer, which gives it .130" so just over 1/8".

So I guess it's good. I guess I could have just bolted it and let the flexplate suck up that .040" gap but, I feel like that could have led to problems.

-- Joe

riche

How did this work out, is the trans ok??
I am considering running an LS 4l60e behind a Gen1 SBC, I think I will run into this issue.
I'm worried if the converter doesn't move forward enough out of the pump, the front pump will be damaged... Or at least that is what I have read so far.
I'm not interested in buying the adapter kit for $290 that spaces the trans back if I can make it work by shimming the converter. Besides the kit is for a 1 piece rms engine Mine is a 2 piece. From what I read I still have to modify a 2 piece rear main seal flex plate to work.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Worked out fine. just measure, check and shim. Lame but.. Aftermarket anti-baloon plate.

-- Joe

riche

Thanks, I think I have it wrong. If I run an LS style 4l60e behind a gen1 SBC. the TQ will be pushed back 0.400. That is probably too much.
You are back 0.130.

I wonder if I can run a trans dapt plate that is 5/16"=0.3125
That would leave me with 0.0785 tp make up (0.400-0.4125)
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-0060

I still have the Torque converter Bolt circle to contend with.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Why wouldn't you run a crank spacer and flywheel bolts instead of flex plate bolts?

riche

From what I am reading the Gen I SBC crank is 0.400 longer (long crank) than an LS crank. So that makes the pilot hole for the TC hub to shallow. In-turn pushes the TC back 0.400.
So the only option is to space the trans or to buy a custom TC with a shorter pilot hub.
At least that is what I think I am reading... I could be wrong, It has happened before.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

You can't cut .400 off the hub of the TC? If you did that, would the bolts crash into the converter like mine did?

Why don't you just get an LT1 4L60E? They are plentiful in the junk yards, and cheap to rebuild. The 2nd generation with the 2pc bell housing is a PITA anyway.

-- Joe

riche

You are right, lt1 type 4l60e would be just fine.
I have the dang LS style 4l60e. It's kinda a sob story so I will spare you.
But I'm just trying to make due with what I got as cheep as possible. If I build/buy a trans I might as-well just get a 700r4.
I have a 1969 C-10 so I have to buy a trans controller, was looking at a megasquirt GPIO board.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Cheaper probably to just get a Microsquirt and run the trans software. I think it would be like $300.

I'm not an expert here, but I'd try to mill down the hub on the TC and hope the rest of it doesn't whack the flexplate bolts.

-- Joe

riche

I thought about this, but I think the hub has a taper on it so the dia will change.

riche

Will have to look into that, but if there isn't a step by step wright up like the GPIO board I might be reluctant to go that route. Never done it before. I think I'm capable of building a board and a harness, but am definitely biting off more than I can typically chew.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I wouldn't build one, too much potential for issues with the electronics. A lot of the guys that have MS issues are because of faulty soldering.

You could buy a ready build microsquirt controller that is plug and play, but they are expensive:

https://www.diyautotune.com/shop/tra...on-controller/

Cheaper to just buy a microsquirt controller and build the harness out of a doner GM harness.

-- Joe