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I'm having issues getting the hydraulics to move the clutch fork more than about 5/8" to allow for the clutch to disengage. I have spent around 20+ hours trying t bleed the system using about every trick I have found online, everything I do does not affect the amount of movent of the clutch fork, it's like it has the wrong parts (slave or master cylinders) that won't allow enough movement. Anyone have this issue or have any recommendations? The next thing I'm thinking of doing is replacing the Slave cylinder again, would love to get one with a proper bleeder valve but I haven't found one yet. What else could it be? I have had thoughts to get an adjustable clutch master cylinder kit from Hawks (https://www.hawksmotorsports.com/84-...-cylinder-kit/), but not sure if it's work the $350, but I would know that I would get the clutch fork moved enough.
A little background, I have an '86 with a V6 & T5 that I'm trying to get back on the road after 20 years being parked. It got parked because of a bad transmission but found 3 out of 4 bolts holding the transmission to the bell housing were missing, and because of some mistakes along the way getting things back together I have replaced the bell housing, clutch fork, clutch (with all the parts), transmission case, input and output shafts, standard parts for a transmission rebuild, then the clutch slave and master cylinders (separately). After I got everything together the first time I couldn't get the clutch to disengage (I replaced the slave cylinder the first time since the piston came out), I had pulled everything apart thinking maybe I messed something up like getting the fork on the throw out bearing or clutch backwards but it was all good, then once I got it back together then I replaced the master cylinder thinking that could have been the issue, but no change.
A year and a half later I’m still dealing with this, we have other projects now I’m trying to get my ‘86 running before my son gets his ‘95 (mine is in one piece so if I can figure out this issue it should be easy!)
So doing more digging I’m wondering if there is any chance it could be the pilot bushing (it’s the one thing I changed in the beginning and haven’t touched). Or is there any chance it’s something inside the transmission (my son is convinced it’s this and I messed up the rebuild)?
I’m still stuck on that the clutch fork only moves somewhere close to the minimum that it’s supposed to and maybe it’s just below the minimum? Which kind of makes sense because since it feels like it’s just hitting the sweet spot when the clutch is in the floor since you can hear the gears trying to slow down when the clutch is in and trying to but it in gear. I can also see this being because the pivot point or clutch fork is off too (but don’t know how to test or measure what might be off without throwing more parts at and just guessing.
Its not a super complicated system so let's start with the basics.
Was the car converted to manual or factory? It's all factory, besides rebuilt the transmission and replace parts.
What pedals are installed in the car. The factory ones.
What master and slave are installed. When I first got together, I still had the factory master and slave, but have replaced when I first had this issue I replaced both (I will have to dig to find the brand, but matched original), but still had the same issue, no change.
What clutch fork is installed. It was the factory used one that came with the used bellhousing that I was told came out of an '87 Firebird with a V6.
How is the throw out bearing installed? Are the spring clips in the bearing or left free? I have been dealing with this issue, I wish it wat this easy of fix (alll my research and when I bring up my issue, people have pointed this out), I have verified that I did this right (had pulled the transmission twice trying to find the issue).
Smaller slave or larger master bore will force more movement. I think there is a different bore Cavalier slave that might do it but you'll have to search and read up on that one.
If that doesn't do it, take the clutch to a brake and clutch service shop (that relines truck brakes) and see if they can test the clutch. There are a couple height TO bearings too.
Check the fork and make sure it's riding on the pivot ball at the right spot. I remember when I was putting mine back together there was a "spot" that you could slide the fork to that was NOT the right location but it would still sorta almost want to work.
Smaller slave or larger master bore will force more movement. I think there is a different bore Cavalier slave that might do it but you'll have to search and read up on that one.
If that doesn't do it, take the clutch to a brake and clutch service shop (that relines truck brakes) and see if they can test the clutch. There are a couple height TO bearings too.
I might have to look into that Cavalier slave to see if I can get more movement. That seems cheaper than buying a variable throw set up that is like $300-400 and would require getting the master replaced again (that is a pain!!).
I don't have a trailer or anything to drag it to a shop and I don't think there are any shops like that close, I'm in a very urban area, and it would be 20 or so miles across town to someplace that might be able to do that. I will keep it in mind if I can't figure anything else.
Check the fork and make sure it's riding on the pivot ball at the right spot. I remember when I was putting mine back together there was a "spot" that you could slide the fork to that was NOT the right location but it would still sorta almost want to work.
I will check again, but I have pulled everything a few times, so I doubt I messed that up a few times! I do appreciate the ideas and not just the same most common issues (like getting the fork on the throughout bearing wrong, I have heard that way too many times since it's the most common issue).
Dang - that sounds aggravating. I’ve seen similar issues discussed on thirdgen. Sounds like the input shaft is binding at the pilot bushing. The connection of the master cylinder rod to the clutch pedal has also caused a problem like yours. It’s been a while since I changed my clutch master cylinder. I do remember it being difficult to make the connection to the pedal. It was cramped difficult to gain access.
A final thought. We’ve all been there where an install goes wrong. And after way too much effort, the problem turned out to be a mislabeled part. Or cheaply manufactured part.
So, when the trans bolts were loose, was the trans out of alignment? Did the trans have any movement and was being stabilized by the input shaft/pilot and disk you likely have an issue w binding. A damaged pilot or hub could cause issues like this.
Thank you johnw and firechicken, these are good responses that I think are starting to give me some things to look at. Up until last weekend when I started looking at this again I had not even thought about the pilot bushing. I had replaced that when I put everything together the first time and never thought about it again, at this point I don't see how everything isn't coming apart again, and I will make sure I look at this and likely replace with the one that came with the second clutch I put in the second or third time I had things apart.
Yes, the connection of the pedal to the master has been a pain, I don't know if new unit is slightly shifted from the original but it would not stay on using the factory plastic bushing I had to buy a metal clip (I figured that out from digging around on here and/or Facebook groups), that normally goes on the brake pedal or other Chevy clutch pedals, I had to trim down the original bushing to keep things tight. It took a lot of time to get that issue fixed but the last time I was messing with this it seems to be taken care of.
When I first took this apart (it was like 7 years ago!) I don't remember exactly how it was sitting, but I do remember I didn't notice the missing bolts until I had some other things apart, so things were likely not out of alignment. What took most of the damage was the needle bearings that is between the input and output shaft, so I replaced both shafts because of how rough the tip and cup ends were, there was no way I was getting them smooth. The new ones matched (the output came with some gears that didn't quite match but important parts matched) and then because of other issues I ended up having to replace the case and the rebuild kit had new bearings, so I would think whatever could have been an issue would have been taken care of with "new" parts.
One more thing that my son heard in talking to someone else from our hotrod club is that when we were putting things together we should have had someone pressing the clutch in before putting in the transmission to make sure there isn't any binding. Since I have an extra input shaft I used to align the clutch when installing instead of the plastic alignment tool that came with the clutch I can see doing that but with the cheep plastic tool I wouldn't do that with since I could see the throw out bearing to slip side to side when you press the clutch without a shaft in there. I'm not sure how this clutch it, if that would have helped, but I could see the alignment being off causing this issue, but I would have thought at least one of the times I had things apart I would have gotten the alignment correct unless something with the pilot bearing is offset or something causing alignment issues.
Did you replace the pivot ball and the fork? Those worn parts can take up a lot of the needed movement to disengage the clutch.
The pivot ball/stud from what I understand on the v6 bellhousings are not replaceable, and the fork was a used fork. Right now I can't find any new v6 clutch forks and the used ones look rough and still asking a lot. I know at one point I thought I was finding some new ones, but since the bellhousing I got had a fork come with it. I hadn't heard these parts being items that get worn out.
Can't remember how the pivot/ball comes off but it's not part of the bellhousing. It's either pressed in or screwed in, is there a place to put a hex socket on the back of the stud?
The pivot ball/stud from what I understand on the v6 bellhousings are not replaceable, and the fork was a used fork. Right now I can't find any new v6 clutch forks and the used ones look rough and still asking a lot. I know at one point I thought I was finding some new ones, but since the bellhousing I got had a fork come with it. I hadn't heard these parts being items that get worn out.
I did some searching. Looks like the fork part # is 14075718 and the ball # is 14036046. Ebay has some reasonably priced parts.
That clutch fork for v6 is a newer listing, it wasn't there before the only one was one coated with crusty dirt (and who know how much rust was under that). The Rock Auto one is cheap compared to the one on Ebay, but seam about the same, I will have to pull the transmission again to replace these and/or to compare if what I have is different. I'm hoping to only have things apart one more time, so I may just get these to make sure they are right. I would be surprised if this is the issue since nothing looked off, but I can see if one of the 2 or both are wrong the angle would be off in order to disengage the clutch.
One other thing is did you have the flywheel machined? Machining the flywheel moves the clutch further away from the transmission. They make shims to go behind the flywheel to bring it back to i's original position. I always measure the flywheel before and after to determine the correct shim thickness.
