Checked my timing today with two different lights. With the EST disconnected, it reads between 3 and 4 degrees. With EST connected, it's about 16-18 degrees. So apparently my timing is WAY off! Now, that's not the part that pissed me off so much. A while back when I was in school, my dad took my car to a shop and had my spark plug wires replaced there..they overcharged me for wires AND labor but I bit my tongue and left wondering why in the world he did this without me knowing. Anyways, today I'm checking out the wires making sure they're tight, and I notice one of them rocks quite a bit and isn't snapping on. I pull it off..guess what? NO CONNECTING TERMINAL. It's still sparking, but there's nothing to hold it on or to ensure the best spark transmission. All I gotta say is..SOMEONE'S GONNA DIE! So now I gotta order some new wires...I'm thinking 8.-something mm's...anybody know which brands make blue wires for the V6? I think Accel does but I'm not sure. Thanks.

 

Wow, bummer. I think MSD might still make their 8.0 mm wires, they were blue. Moroso should have Blue Max, might need to buy a universal (cut/crimp) set. And I think Taylor has every color that anyone could think of. Imagine hot pink...

 

Already checked on Taylor...they have them for my car and they're blue..pre-booted. (Whew.) I'm gonna browse through Summit and JCWhitney and see what kind they have..I definitely want blue, and I definitely don't want to boot them myself. Done that once before..it wasn't fun and it didn't end very well. (The distributor-end terminals kept pulling out everytime I messed with them and stripping the wire...had to remove them. They're still in my garage.) I still don't understand how the car would run at 4 degrees though, unless the timing plate is placed wrong, but it matches up with the photos I've seen. I mean that's really bad and the car runs decent with the EST disconnected...it just idles slow and almost dies right after it starts.

 

Sounds like timing too far retarded. Sounds like the shop was too

Get 8.5mm MSD's only 50ohm/ft!

 

Well yeah my timing is retarded MAJOR...it's supposed to be at 10 degrees. Even the V8's got 6 degrees...mine says it's at 4. I've never heard of timing being that off and the car even running. I don't know what's up. And the MSD wires are way too expensive..like $90! My stock ignition system would never see a difference...I doubt it'd be worth it even with aftermarket ignition. And yeah..I'm never going to that shop again. Well I decided that after my dad came back with the bill. $100. $50 for labor, $50 for crappy $30 wires. Jerks.

 

I know these cars the balancer will spin, and give in-correct reading. I wouldn't be surprised if thats what happened. Ask redraif/LT1, thats part of whats wrong with my s10 2.8l Don't fully assume that is what its really at.

 

Is that something that NEEDS to be corrected or does it just make things a pita? Is there a way to check timing without going by the balancer? I doubt it but figure I'll ask anyways. Also, when advancing it, which direction do you rotate it, clock or counter-clockwise? If the timing is too advanced, will you hear the engine start to knock or ping noticeably? I figure maybe I could do it like how some tune a carb I think (keep giving more gas until it goes to die and then back off)....

 

maybe your dad had them do that, slow it down but keep it running well. so they guy retarded your timing a bunch and un caped 1 plug wire like a rev limiter as if you were speeding down a road it would bounce and lose spark on one plug and keep you from going too fast too quick.

 

One way to "get it in the area" is while the engine is off, and in neutral, spin the engine so #1 is TDC and the rotor is facing the proper way for #1 plug (not 4), and mark on the balancer where the 0 is off the timing plate with a paint stick, grease pencil, etc. Then dx the timing wire, and start engine, and check/adjust that way. It should get you +/- 2 deg or so. Better then 6 deg off


Best way is to get a new balance, but is expensive, and most places dont have them in stock.

 

OO, btw, to far advanced, engine will "buck" and not wanna start. To far back it will run like ***, and I belive will "ping" alot.

am I correct??

 

I had MSD 8.5mm on my car, but they were from a 70's Mustang so it had the socket style terminal ends that did not fit without some modifications. The connections were not so tight so I put my crane 8.0mm wires back on. As soon as I can locate the correct 90 degree HEI socket ends, I will cut and crimp my wires and put the MSDs back on, even the the Cranes' are just as good.


Sorry to hear about your spark plug situations. It seems like the guy who changed your plugs didn't even care to make sure they were alright. That's why I do all of those little things by myself. To error is human though. Sometimes the simpliest things are most overlooked. I once forgot to put my oil dipstick back in the hole. I had been driving around with the dip stick wedged righ next to the strut mounts right where I had left it.

 

Gumby...he'd never do that.. He isn't that stupid. Besides, he's seen my 'racing slick'. He doesn't care until I get caught. Dale...it doesn't ping at all, just has a funny sound to it..a sloshy-ish funny echoing sound..I can't even describe it, never heard it on any other car. I'd swear it sounded like it was coming from the smog pump but the smog pump is brand new...? Starts up right away, doesn't ping, doesn't knock/tap or anything, idles rough but not too slow, just rough. Anyways, I went into AutoPro today and ordered a set of 8mm spiral-core Taylor blue wires....they should be in by Friday afternoon, so they SHOULD be in the car by Friday evening. Just have to see how that one goes...

One question.. If the rotor was put back on in a different position that it was at when it was taken off, would that throw the timing off? Would the car even run? I'm asking because a friend came over and was helping me out, and when I was away grabbing/putting away some tools, he yanked the rotor and clicked the new one on..he did it pretty carelessly and I didn't see it before he pulled it so I don't know if he put the new one on in the right position.

 

Rotor just pops off, pops back on, one position. Very hard to mess that up.

I would do the wire thing, and possibly plugs while your at it. They could have been gapped wrong if someone was that careless.

Then, see how it runs.

 

Alright, thanks Dale. When my wires come in Friday afternoon, I'll pay the rest of the balance for them and then buy either some Accel U-Groove plugs, or Rapidfires.. Get those BRAND FREAKIN NEW PLATINUMS I just put in back out. If they're still bright white enough maybe I can sell them off to someone. Although who, I don't know..... They'll look nice on a little plaque in my room though, along with my old old old platinums, my two different sets of spark plug wires, my old O2 sensor, my old cap and rotor..........

 

Dale
Great description for TDC!
You could have fixed that one plug wire for next to nothing.
Why remove good spark plugs?
What do you suspect?
Accel U Groove are old style plugs
The Platinums are the way to go these days.
YET
YET
Every engine likes "certain" things better.

 

six degrees isn't all that much, car will run just fine six degrees off.

When I bought my L98, it was a little doggy. not majorly bad, but neough that it wasn't impressive. when I checked the timing, it was at about 5* AFTER TDC. 11 degrees retarded. still ran and started just fine and gave no clue whatsoever other than being a lil down on power.

 

I can't help but feel my presence here often inspires such deep intellectual quotes.

 

The reason I say plugs, #1, they could have been gapped wrong, or #2 if one wasn't firing right, it will have different wear on it then the others, and could still cause funny idle. I have had that happen myself.

If your looking for exotic plugs, look at http://www.halosparkplugs.com/ one of my old bosses is now part owner, and operator of that place. When I rebuild my new engine, I gonna give them a shot in it. I had some of his "prototypes" in my dodge a few years back for him when I also worked for him. Gave it a deeper tone, and slight more power with better mpg. I noticed recently they lowered their price, so I might go for them on all my rides.

Ked, are you being sarcastic, or for real???

 

KED..I'm replacing the wires for a reason besides that..I HATE them! They're Belden. They're black but they've got LOADS of discoloration all over them, everything from gray to orangish...the boots on one or two wires are like dryrotting even though they're only 8 months or so old? They're only 7mm's... One ripped in half and the top grip ripped too when I pulled it out to get to the plug. The new ones should be so much better...bright blue 8mm spiralcores. And I'm replacing the spark plugs because platinums don't work good in the V6's..the ignition is too hot, eats em right up...the electrode is too cold of a firing temp and it's too small. That's why I'm replacing the plugs....and I'm doing it so soon because I'll have all the wires off, so..why not? 91L..the timing reading on the plate is taken BEFORE TDC, correct? Hmm...I don't know whether my reading is right or not but all I can say is, I would figure it would run a LOT worse being 6 degrees off...it's acting like it's right on par. Runs fine just rough, which I attribute to the wires but mostly to vacuum..I'm sure I've got some tiny leaks here and there.

 

Right, vacume hose is cheap. If you got time, do that too. I'm still trying to find the color vacume hoses, at the same time I have money.

Give the wires a try, I doubt anyone messed with your timing, just the balancer spun.

Let us know how it goes.

 

Both my 3.4 run platinum plugs with superb results. As I said certain engines like certain plugs....
The plug wires,
I "thought" only one plug wire "one end" was bad.
I would have reused the Bosch in this current 3.4 (I media blast them clean), but they were not the platinums.
Some place was offering V-6 Wires new 8mm for like $10.
I have Accel 8.8 & will get another set, too!

 

KED...yeah, every car's different. Mine had Platinum +4's in it and it ran like holy hell. Rough, didn't want to start sometimes, idled horrible. That was part the cap/rotor and part the plugs. As far as the wires, only one of the ends is bad, I forget which cylinder it is...but overall, the wires are just poor quality and BUTT ugly. Honestly, I was looking for an excuse to justify spending extra money to get nice ones...and this was the scapegoat. KED, you can clean plugs? Wanna buy a set of 6 Platinum +4's off of me? Ceramic around the electrode is still all there, electrode doesn't LOOk damaged...plugs are just black all over..I ran rich for quite a while before I replaced the O2 sensor. Lol...just a thought!

 

Caught me two weeks prior I would have maybe said yes. I take them to media blaster of friend & just clean 'em.
Do offer them for the help for others, tho.
Maybe those Plat +4 will work better for another members ride.
THANKS FOR THE OFFER!

I have never tried that +4 stuff. Bosch Reg plat plug works just fine. Been using them since the early 80's.
YET my old Chevy rides?
Always the cheapest!
Why?
Those engines are milage old & until I get running/break in my 1970 LT-1, I buy those throw away $.99 plugs.

Plug wires....
I buy mine at swap meets in a box, complain to manufacture, & I get new ones, free.
That's exactly how I scored the 8.8 from Accel for my Firebird.
I have 8.8 300+ wires Accel in my Corvette, too. Swap meet, FORD V-8 set, new ($12!), Swap meet correct GM ends ($3), PAW plug wire tool ($18)....
I need a new set for my Blazer now, maybe I still have those old ones lying around and I'll send in to Accel again....

Plug wires are expensive!

 

Yeah, plug wires are expensive... I've just got those Bosch's laying around.. I've got those platinum +4's and in the next week or so, another 6 regular Bosch Platinums are coming out too. I WAS going to do that tomorrow, but the shop called and said they had to special order the wires from like Missouri since the two warehouses locally didnt have them in stock..so I gotta wait a week. Oh well...