I need a new engine on my car, and I'm looking for the cheapest + easiest swap possible (power is not a concern). Are the 2.8L and 3.1 interchangeable? Where can I find a used V6 for cheap? I'd rather have an entire engine (including manifolds), I don't want to screw with swapping out heads and such, I don't really trust my mechanic skills.

Hey, if one of you wanted to help me out and you live in CA near 91307 I'd pay you!

 

Yes, the 2.8 and 3.1 are different. The larger of the two, having more displacement, puts out more horsepower and ---in my opinion from what I have seen----the 3.1 is also more durable. However, 3.1's for RWD are not exactly a dime a dozen. Also, the computer would have to be changed along with the engine if you wanted to drop a 3.1 in your car. I'm not sure if the 2.8 wiring harness will even hook up to 3.1 ports, I would think they'd be different; but even if it DID, your onboard computer is "tuned" to run a 2.8, which requires different standards of operation.

If you changed the computer and wiring harness along with the engine, then a 3.1 would be a good choice to replace the 2.8 with. The bell housing is the same on both motors, and the engine mounts should be in the same spots as well. Only other concern is the electronic component of the automatic transmission if your car is so equipped. I have been told that the 700R4 transmissions can get picky about what years they will mate up to electronically. You will have to call a transmission shop or the dealer and find out if the transmissions in the 2.8 MPFI cars and the 3.1 MPFI cars were interchangeable. If not, then you will have to swap out the tranny as well.

In conclusion, with the amount of work you would have to go through, I would just try to find another 2.8. The 3.1 IS a more powerful motor, but with the amount of work I've told you about, you might as well drop a small block in there instead of a 6. Lotsa work, my man. For ease, stick with the 2.8. Those engines ARE a dime a dozen, and there is a whole array of Camaro RS's and Firebirds out there with just the motor you need. Good luck on that.

 

The 3.1 (90-92 camaro) is a stroked 2.8 with 5 more hp, but 20 more torque.
the 3.4 (93-95 camaro) is a stroked and bored, with 25hp, and like 30-40 more tq

the blocks are interchangeable
the heads are interchangeable
the upper intake Assys ARE NOT
tb on all 3 are different

if you want, find either a 2.8/3.1/3.4, fully assy F-Body Engine, 87+ and we can tell you how to make it work w/o chaning ecm, or any of that stuff.

Tranny info above, wrong, ours have no electronics, and will go behind any of engines listed.

Wire harness info, no it wont clip into a 3.1 engine, but you change the intake, and it will run it.

It will take the same work to put a 2.8 in, as a 3.1 or a 3.4

 

..

 

That's AWESOME news!
Where can I find a complete engine assembly, I'll take anything, 2.8L, 3.4L whatever. How much would one cost?

 

let me rephrase last sentace, it will take 1 gasket set, and about 1 hour more to install 3.1/3.4, then 2.8.

However, I was assuming you would want to put all new gaskets except heads. IMHO, I would along with new timing chain.

Where to find, start calling junk yards. Ebay (I got mine their), friends of friends. Car-part.com is nice.

Cost, depends on engine size, location in usa, miles, many factors (being honest here).

Just be warned, installing 3.4, then "hot roding" the engine on automatics will tend to blow them if it hasnt been rebuilt recently.

 

The transmission is brand new.
I'll check out car-part.com, I dunno where on Ebay to look for an engine.

 

http://listings.ebaymotors.com/pool1...x.html?from=R0


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33615

Thats the only fbody v6 on evil bay right now.

 

omgwtfbbq, it's kidane. <3 [M]

 

Sorry 'bout the tranny info., I must have been misinformed. Although, isn't there a wiring connector that fits into the side of the transmission for the torque converter lockup or overdrive?

If there isn't, let me know so I don't spread the wrong info. any further. I've only had my '84 for just over a year now, and so I have very little personal experience with the 700R4. My last Camaro was an '83 with the Turbo 200C (non-overdrive). That tranny had a lockup torque converter and there WAS an electrical connector going into the side of the transmission, nearby the selector lever where the shifter cable hooks up. I got to know that tranny really well because I had to drop the tranny out 3 times during the time I had that car and had lots of other trouble with it while it was in(don't ask). I thought I saw a connector like it under my '84, but who knows....I may be thinking about the other car....


Engine question....if the 2.8 and 3.4 blocks are the same, what's the biggest you could bore the cylinders to, liter-wise? I never knew that the two blocks were interchangeable; I'd known about the 2.8 and the 3.1, but not the 3.4. I'd be curious to find out what the limit would be if someone wanted to bore their motor out as far as they could get away with.

 

Freeze, what does all that mean?

CMBlack, it's just a technical point... let me explain further. You had said "electronics"; there's no electronics inside the 84-93 700r4 tranny's. (Trans was renamed in 1992 from a 700R4 to a 4L60.) There's only electrical components for the TCC (torque convertor clutch).

Now when GM re-did the 700r4 and turned it into a 4L60E, the "E" was for electronics, and the electronics vary the line pressure inside the trans. There's no more TV (throttle valve) cable going to the throttle body linkage for a 94-up 4L60E/4L80E.

Side note- the 700r4 was renamed into the 4L60 in 1992 (or 91?)to better describe it's design. 4 = four speed, L = longitudinal mounted (as opposed to "T" for transverse), 60 = torque description. The "60" doesn't really relate to anything other than for comparison... as in, a 4L80 is stronger than a 4L60. And a 700R4/4L60 isn't the same internally as the 4L60E.

So it's just a bit of word terminology, that's all. Electrical = easy, electronics= harder. In fact you can put a 700r4 into a non-computerized car! They sell a kit that removes the dependancy from the computer, and puts the dependancy into a manually-operated switch that goes into the passenger compartment. But as far as I've heard, there's no such equivilant for the Electronic versions of the tranny.

And yes there were variations of the TCC (Torque convertor clutch) cabling, but I believe that was for different platforms... so maybe someone that pulls a 700r4 out of a chevy suburban might have wiring problems.

Yep your '84 will have the TCC connector in the same spot, above the driver's side of the trans fluid pan.

 

I find most of toms info is correct, execpt for some of the years were a little off from what I was told, but close enough.

Even if it DID have electronics, hes not going to be changing any of that, so it wouldnt mater. Hes only changing the engine, not the wiring. Their are several members that have larger engines then stock, but yet running stock wiring/ecm. I will be in febuary.

normal bore for any 6/60 is .010, max I was told was .030

 

He recognises me from another forum. :haha: :cran:

 

Not to be a salesman or anything, but I have a 3.1 just lying around here with a T-5 and automatic wiring harness if you don't want the T-5.....

 

How much for just the engine? Is it easy to swap a T-5 into my car? How much would shipping be? How many miles on it? Is it a complete engine? Could I possibly ask more questions?

 

Hahaha, its got about 89k on it, I had a high idle problem but I think it had to do with the wiring that the previous owner that had my vehicle did to it (bunch of rats got in it, not pretty). Its a complete, motor, everything but power steering and possibly compressor, depending if I keep the compressor I have or not. Will include ECM for a T-5 91 V6.

If you get the T-5, I im using my manual harness for my swap, the automatic harness will work though, but the reverse light connector is missing on the automatic harness, its replaced with a tourque convertor plug.

As far as price, just make an offer, its just gonna be sitting here. Im letting the t-5 go for 200, includes everything you need (everything is six months old, flywheel was bought brand new in july or august, don't remember, along with the clutch, throw out bearing, and pressure plate, bellhousing, and hydraulics) except the pedals.

For shipping, my mother in law runs a freight forwarding company, she gets a 50% discount on freight shipping, so give me the zip and i'll get you a quote.

EDIT: Oh forgot to mention, coil is 3 months old along with spark module, plugs, wires, rotor, cap, umm the little spiral thing on the distributor made of copper wire (forgot what its called), IAC is brand new and I believe I have a spare I can send also, TPS is brand new along with the MAF, I replaced all the broken vacuum harnesses as well.

 

The t-5 swap is somewhat involved. Cutting hole in floor and firewall, mounting the peddles, resevor. Done alot, but I hear it is a tad bit of work.

Problem he described being wrong with engine could be wiring, could be carbon on the valves, possibly few other things. Doubt its anything very serious.

Also, that is quite low miles for a 90-92 3.1 engine.

 

Actually there are 4L60/80E swap kits for non computerized cars.. if anyone cares, I can dig them up, but otherwise I'm too lazy.

 

As for the tranny, the cable is the only thing controlling it....

 

I know there's swap kits, but there are actually equivilants of the 700r4 swap kit? (A switch on the dash, and that's it?) Cool!

 

What years were I mistaken on?

 

Maybe $700 for the whole thing, plus shipping? I'm really strapped for cash, so if you wanted to let it go for lower I wouldn't complain.
My ZIP is 91307, thanks for your help.

 

Pasky, we're not talking about your LT1 anymore.. what is this mystical MAF you speak of on your speed density 3.1?

 

I thought the 700r4 was from 85-92, then changed to 4l60e in 93. Like I said, this is my hearings, it may be wrong. Years are close enough though as I said, no bashing.

 

Oh I didn't take it as bashing, just curious. I'm not really sure when the 4L60E appeared, but GM just renamed the 700r4 into the 4L60 first. The 4L60E came a year or two later.

Like the front wheel drive cars with 4 speeds.. the "new" name for the non-electronic version became 4T60 instead of 440T4. Then the 4T60E came out. I don't remember what the stock 3-speed front wheel drive trans's original name was, but it was renamed to a 3T40. (Easier for me to remember the newer names, obviously... 4L80/4L60/4T60/3T40- hah, that's probalby why GM renamed 'em.)

[edit] Just found this website: http://www.pontiacserver.com/ratios.html And now I don't know how I could've forgotton "TH125C"... it seems so obvious now. Anyway, this page seems to say the front-wheel-drive electronic version of the 700r4 came out in 1988!! Wow! I guess they tried it out on the "luxury" cars before the "pony" cars, huh? Good thing... I'll stick with mechanical/electrical.

 

Oh woops, I meant MAP, hahaha, my mistake.

 

$700 is fine with me, let me find out how much shipping will be, if its still a bit much, i'll let it go for lower for sure. THis crap is just taking up room here so it has to go

 

93 had the 700r4 if I remember correctly, every year after that was 4l60E

 

In fact, yea just let me check shipping, I think $700 is a bit much for you to pay, i'd feel bad, the tranny is in good condition, if you lived here in town it would be okay, but 700 + shipping, I know what it is like to be on a budget, like I said, let me get that quote and i'll go from there.

 

I love you

 

btw, is this just for the engine or did you want the transmission also?

 

Hm... I'm trying to figure out how much work it would take to swap the transmission...

Go ahead and give me two quotes I guess, one for just the engine, and one for both. The engine is all I really need for a->b transportation, and I have to keep my finances in mind. :-/

 

If this doesn't work out, let me know.. I could use the ECU and wiring harness.. possibly a couple sensors. Need to start work on a 2 bar speed density setup.

 

Ok np, if ya want the tranny, I will charge ya 700, not to be a *** or anything, but because I know can get about 200 for it by itself, im in the middle of a swap myself, and I need to replenish my funds everyway I can. Should have a quote by monday.

 

$700 it is.
The transmission in my car is new, I can probably make some money selling it, right? I've seen 700-R4s going for almost a thousand dollars...

 

Okie doke, sounds good to me, only thing that I know of that needs replacing on the engine is the oil pressure sending unit.

I bought one but had gotten the wrong one, car will run with it but your needle will stay past 80psi the whole time, I never bothered to replace it as it wasn't a priority.

 

In that case, I will take it!
Send me an email with a shipping quote, I will have to get back to you as to where I want it shipped. I'm not sure how you want to work it out, maybe half as a deposit, then half after it's shipped? Let me know: nick_jojo@yahoo.com

 

Also, how many miles do the engine and transmission have?

 

Both are roughly 89-90k. The tranny should be easy to install, I got everything ya need, all the clutch parts and such are only six or so months old, the flywheel has a few hotspots, a machine shop can get those off easy and cheap, but you can still see the machine lines from the factory on the flywheel.

I bought it brand spanking new last summer. There was nothing in the fluid the last two times I changed it and it shifts great. The toughest part of the swap from auto to manual is just getting the pedals right, everything else just bolts on.

 

Im off to bed man, I gotta continue my hunt for v8 clamshells tomorrow and im sick of overlooking this source code . Night and i'll be on the boards tomorrow.

EDIT:

Just read your post, sure, half and half works for me, thats probably how I would want it. Like I said its just taking up space here, its much cheaper if you can find a dock to get it to be dropped off at, residential residence is more expensive along with having to use a truck with a lift if you don't have a dock.

 

Will the power steering pump and accessories from my LB8 fit on your LH0?

 

Goodnight, thanks for your help!
Don't seel that stuff to anybody else!