I would like to know anything I possibly could about getting a turbo setup for a 2.8....Regardless of money, whats the cheapest, whats the most expensive, whats the more powerfull etc...Any help is appreciated!

 

Doward and/or Vortex, and TechSmurf are doing turbo setups.

Also Tiago over @ firebirdv6.com


Could even pull off the Datsun autocross deal w/the twin turbo 2.8.

Best infomation is to do a search on all the above peeps & read up on their progress. Most, if not all your questions should be answered.

 

Thank you!

 

The word of the day is "custom".. there are no kits.. there's no "best way to do it" yet... there's just 3 bored owners with too much time and too many friends.

Money? $35-$3500? How nifty do you want it to look? How many friends do you have that are equipped to fabricate stuff for you for next-to-nothing? A manifold made out of junk (mine, free) or a pair of good manifolds and a crossover pipe, schedule 40 weld-els, all stainless parts ($500 and up).. wire-feed/arc welding (cheap), mig (not as cheap), or tig (usually very expensive)?

There's just too many variables.. if you're not prepared to open pandora's box, this is not the project for you.. yet. I'm sure one of us will perfect our system and take it off to have it blueprinted and copied someday.

 

Actually, Vortex and I are well on our way with the turbo kit scenario. We already turbocharged the 2.8 (Yeah, we were the first, yay. :P) We've now got a mildly worked over 3.1, that we're perfecting the system on... currently, we're working on the downpipe, from the turbo, to the cat.

As far as modifications, so far, you have to remove the smog pump, and that's about it. As we progress with the intake piping and such, we'll see what else has to get shuffled around...

We're actually designing two systems - one will be for the stock manifolds, everything mandrel bent, and Jet Hot coated, straight from us, and the other will include Turbo VP Headers, that will cost a little more than the standard turbo kit.

Cheapest will probably be going TechSmurf's route (he's on an even tighter budget than us! What's your total now? like, $100?) We turbo'd the 2.8 for $300, but now have probably 5x that in R&D work we've done. No price yet, on the final Turbo Kit (more as it progresses, lol) But we believe it will be worth the $$... and I guarantee it'll take a well kept 2.8 to a 14.2.

Most expensive? Well, based off the headers, I'm going to nominate PF&E for the most expensive, as they're working a turbo project too, I believe. (It was hinted, but we've not seen anything yet... )

Most powerful? Look back at the guarantee of a 14.2, from this kit, and a stock 2.8. Every single possible variable is being gone through meticulously, and from every possible angle Vortex and I can think of. Shoot, I'm expecting the mild 3.1 to be hitting mid 13s when it's completed!

 

That's about it.. but as I've said, $60 of that is in an intercooler I splurged on.. could have waited for a freebie.. base cost is $35-40 that there's no way I could have avoided spending. Granted, more will be going in to make it perfect, but she runs boosted on that small investment.

 

Thanks for the info dudes! And yes...hopefully when all your project(s) are done than maybe some copying can go on?

 

I dunno about that... But at least I can say the proceeds are going to go to a good cause - more 60º products, courtesy of Vortex Performance!

 

You should try it

 

Copying, yes.. publishing the specifications for others to copy freely? maybe after a couple years.. building and selling top quality kits? Definitely. I'm with doward here. ALOT of work goes into this kind of thing. It's almost insane to give away some of the specs.

 

Oh I understand you guys fully, was just asking whats involved and get some pics on what your projects look like.

 

Go with supercharging, less fabrication and hassle (turbos need water and oil cooler lines, manifold fabrication, aftercooler (aka, intercooler), etc.

Superchargers are self-contained and spool instantly, u only need to fabricate a bracket and get a belt that fits. You could probably get injectors, map, fuel pump from a z28.

I heard that the fiero had a supercharger kit.

Akshay

 

Don't worry about a copy. Soon as D n V get close we will have all kinda of copy cat systems. Funny how that work but seam allot of people just hang out n wait for you to work out the system, get the demand up and then jock off it.

The headers went that way quick.

Should just make a website with a $20 donation for all the detailed info and specs. That way the copy cats arnt selling anything n least you get some cash.

 

Ill give away my idea. Make a system like Techs with the header the point straight out. And run dual cheap freebie turbo's no one wants. I bet its easier to find two small turbo's then one "big" turbo for nothing or cheap. Id be doing a budget system like his.

Cheap cheap cheap, any boost is good boost,
can I borrow two bucks for gas?

 

Turbos noone wants: uhm.. let's see.. ones with shot seals!.. ... yeah, that about covers it. Rebuilding one shot turbo is cheaper than rebuilding two shot turbos... *glances at the shot T3 next to him*.

If you could find a good pair, though, I think the twin-turbo 300ZXs might make good donors. However, two turbos, DEFINITELY high volume oil pump. I repeat, my oil pressure is scary with just one..

Also, supercharging has its downfalls too.. research before commitment.

 

Correct - like the parasitic drag the supercharger causes, by being tied directly to a belt to the engine.... turbo's are MUCH more efficient.

 

if your oil pressure is that scary, you should put a high volume pump and the bigger oil pan, then you would have way more cooling power, you guys should also invest in oil temp guages.

.02 from a guy without any turbo experience.

 

Turbos no one wants.............the units from the 80/81 T/As. Uness you have a plan for them (looks under shop bench & smiles fiendishly)

 

Well, I gotta hand it to you guys ( Doward, Techsmurf,etc.)
to take the time and effort to making the 2.8/3.1L with
a TURBO a reality! People have been curious and on edge
about this "Turbo kit" for years now! Those SBC owners
( including me soon) will be in shock to know that the
little motor that couldn't, could beat them!

Just some questions on this topic....

1.) Is it possible to have a turbo, or even twin turbo
setup on the LHO motor to hit high 12s? Can the motor
take that kind of abuse? I assume a LOT of boost with
a good size turbo(s) and a big intercooler would have
to be involved to achieve this? Also use some blow off
valves too? Those sound cool when between shifts!
I would also assume to start with the 3.4 block since
that is a better casted block, right?

2.) PLEASE keep us updated on this project of yours
and let us know your 1/4 times and dyno tests and
stuff like that.

 

I didn't know this. I was always told that the supercharged
method was more efficient.

I know that the supercharger takes some engine power
to make the power, and the turbo needs to wind up causing
a "lag" right before the "boost" kicks in. So, I assume that
there's a plus and a minus to both power adders?

Please bare in mind, I have only read about this stuff
for a few years in books, mags and at auto school.
I have only driven SC'd or TC'd cars/trucks. Not had
to work on those units themselves.

I would also assume that two turbos winding up together
than just one is way better for power to come up faster?

 

Standard twin-turbo setups have no advantage over a larger single turbo.. sequential twin does have an advantage, as all exhaust gas is plumbed to one turbo until a certain point, then the second is opened up with the first already producing boost, but is far more complex and thus easier to break.

I think the supercharger vs. turbocharger argument could be held for a long, long time.. in the end, I believe they have equal qualities.. but I also believe I like turbochargers far more. For one, I do like being able to cruise without 6 psi of compressed air in my intake.. sure, lag sucks, but there are ways around that to a degree also. None of us are running ECUs designed to spool a turbo.. I'm not even sure yet if the 90-92 speed density setups are capable of being programmed to do it, either. Need redard + extra fuel all over the board where the throttle's plenty open and no boost is detected.

With larger motors, superchargers again have the "instant power" advantage.. but there's such a thing as producing too much torque to put it on the ground, and have you ever seen a GN/TTA launch at a dragstrip? They can get up to 20 psi going while sitting on the line staged.. I'm not feeling the lag there

Supercharger losses occur from accessory drag.. turbocharger losses occur from increased exhaust pressures.. there's no way to compress air without using some energy in the process.. turbochargers just get most of their energy from hot gasses that you were planning on throwing away out the tailpipe anyway, whereas a supercharger's energy comes directly from what was going to be sent to the flywheel.

 

There is some lag with turbos but a properly tuned motor and the correct torque converter(if it's an auto) will cure that lag problem unless you're running a super big turbo.

The debate between which is more efficient can go on forever, personally I think turbo's of the slight advantage but others will disagree(or agree),.

Like smurf said there is no advantage to twin turbos unless they are sequential...in fact a lot of your TT Supra and 300Zx guys convert to a single turbo when they want to make some major power

 

It's great isn't it??

 

12's? Easy. Assuming my setup was prepped for it (3 bar speed density conversion, boost ignition retard programmed into chip, spool mode, fully tuned with 36pph injectors... built 700R4 or TH-350... high volume oil pump... better intercooler) I'm fairly confident my setup could do 12s, even with a 2.8.. it's just not my goal. (EDIT, this also assumes a boost controller and 15+ psi)

Updates will be slower now that my primary concern is reliability, and 1/4 mile times may not represent maximum performance capability as I'm setting up for autocross, not drag.. dyno I could care less about.. but yeah, if I do decide to run her on the track, I'll probably post a hint as to the ET (I'd be running under cover of dark scoreboards if anything)

I can't even approximate a 0-60 currently.. speedo cable is toast and wrapped repeatedly inside its housing.. probably looking at replacing the housing =\

 

Seen it... the fastest MKIV TT Supras I've seen aren't TT anymore. In the end the combined weight of two compressor wheels/shafts/turbine wheels outweighs the larger single unit. Sequential's advantage comes in getting off the line.. it's all downhill after that.

 

Yea, I think most peope like the turbo as it used "wasted" power. Your just gonna blow it out. Might as well take advantage of it. Only though if you ran a turbo and had to run a complete cat oem system, the BP could become great.

 

SO, it all comes to personal preference.

I kinda figured that you could do something to limit the
amount of lag. Makes sense. My boss has a 1991 Nissan
300Z? Or is it 350Z? Anyways, it's twin turbo. He's
going to have BIG turbos and BIG intercoolers and
a mild rebuild to the engine. Est. about 500hp.

 

I had the 300zx that your talking of here.

It was a 90 with the twin's under the hood from factory they was rated at 300Hp with a 5 speed or 280 with the 4 speed Automatic.

That was really good back in the early 90's since I had a 88 before that and it only made 165hp(Non Turbo) Price's are high high high for parts for them however thats the main reason I no longer have mine.

I had it from 2000-2001 and we had over 11,000 into the car when we ditched it. Was always something with it(people we got it from had not took care of it was teh main factor and I got it as everything was starting to blow and break.)

With little small mod's and things they we make some major Hp from everything I have seen on them, we never got around to doing anything to mine besides changing the Filter for the K-N one as it was always on the way to the shop or broken down in the back yard!

We have a 03 G35 (4 door) now and its really nice and somewhat close to the Z32(90-96 300zx) The only thing I fdont care for on it is its a slient deadly one(not much motor sound to let you know your running it twice as fast and hard as you should be)


<SO, it all comes to personal preference.

I kinda figured that you could do something to limit the
amount of lag. Makes sense. My boss has a 1991 Nissan
300Z? Or is it 350Z? Anyways, it's twin turbo. He's
going to have BIG turbos and BIG intercoolers and
a mild rebuild to the engine. Est. about 500hp.>

 

Yeah my boss said that the 91 Z was putting out about
300hp stock. He also has the 5 speed. It's also equipped
with t tops. He never took them off Why? I dunno.
To each his/her own I guess? Last summer, he took
me for a ride in it. Only things done was a turbo boost
to 16psi with boost meter/controller/gauge type stuff
and an 80 shot of nitrous. Had about 120,000 miles at the
time, all stock internal drivetrain! Minus a new high performance
clutch kit. WOW! What a ride! He did 13.4 all day, with a
best of 12.9 on the nitrous. But his mph was like 122
so he can get even closer to mid 12s. But his car is set up
more for Auto X, road course.

But now this coming spring, he is having the motor
ripped apart for a mild rebuild and swapping in new
turbos and intercoolers. So, it's estimated to get
about 500hp after that, with a boost adjustment up to
22psi! He knows ALL about the expense of aftermarket
performance parts for that car. It's like $850 EACH for
tubular manifolds!!!!!!! He must have dumped like
10,000 dolllars so far in the car! Not including the car!

 

Thanks for your input. Keep us informed. Good
luck on your project(s).

 

It's out of commission at the moment.. trying to optimize performance of the manifold before I bolt it back on.. thing's a PITA to remove/replace, so its initial trial bolt-on lasted about a month. I'd like to feel confident in not removing it before it goes back on.. should be done in a week.. I'll get back with solid boost numbers then.

 

Anyway we can see pics of engine/turbo?

NEVERMIND! I checked out your "link" in your sig!

 

Sequential turbos keep lag to a minimum. Sequential turbos experience a tiny bit of lag at the beginning and mid engine speeds. This is because one turbo kicks in first, then after a certain engine speed, the other turbo takes over.

Some people rig sequential turbos to spool both at the same time. Having both turbos kicking in together causes more lag down low. But once they hit, they hit hard, w/ out any lag in the midrange! (Kinda like the 300zx TT).

I met this one dude (living in NV) who had a 93 (?) supra TT 6-spd. He rigged both turbos to kick in together. With other minor mods., his car dynoed a little over 450 rwhp.

Akshay