Checked wires, no lightening storm, about 6 months old.
Checked cap/rotor checked good, still replaced
Changed the oil, no antifreeze in it
air filters clean
No engine codes
Plugs replaced
O2 sensor replaced
TPS checked and set to .56
Coil replaced with MSD
fuel pressure.. running 36'ish, holds 40 while off
has 1lb bouncing vac leak(has always had this though
)
rocker knock fixed by installing oem rockers and setting them @1.25 turns
FPR is not leaking.

compression check as follows
RF 120 then 150
RM 120 then 150
RR 105 then 135
LF 105 then 135
LM 120 then 150
LR 105 then 140

What else am I missing

 

how old are your injectors? (thinking they may be leaking, getting stuck open,just a thought)

 

not sure on the injectors as to how old they are. I have 3 sets, some of whats in could even be mix matched set.

They hold pressure and dont leak once the car is turned off, so they arnt stick open.

 

could they be cycling longer than supposed too? but then you'd be getting codes on the o2 sensor.......

 

maybe repeats

cold start injector?


Id do a leak down test. a compression test can look ok but a leakdown can tell more. Compression gauges hold highest pressure. Leak down test is a bit more involved but Id say you got nothing to lose. You can find direction for it on most any site.

 

3.1's dont have a cold start injector.

Still no codes of any sort.

Leak down test on compression? I dont see how that would work?

 

A leak down test puts compressed air into the cylinders and tells you how fast it leaks out and where. On the testers there is a guage that shows the leak percentage, that's how you know how bad a leak is. All cars leak a little past the rings, it's when you get into the 15% and higher rage that's bothersome.

You can tell where it's going based onb listening at various engine outputs(intake, crankcase, radiator, and tailpipe) to be able to tell where it's leaking from.

You say it's white smoke if I remember right. Have you been losing coolant. How about the oil level. I know I asked about the oil level in a previous thread, but I ask again because white-ish smoke comes from oil or coolant, and black smoke is from fuel. if it's not black, then it's not fuel.

 

I know oil smell, its not that.

If it was coolant, wouldnt water be dripping from my pipes. And my plugs wouldnt carbon up correct?

I dont see on my guage would show leak down. Once it reads a pressure, it stays there tell I hit the release button.

However, if I had a valve hanging open, forcing air into it would blow back up the intake or exhaust.

 

It's a special guage that you have to get to do a leak down test.

 

most leak down how to's show how to build you own gauge on the fly. Plumbin parts and cheap gauge for like an air compressor.


compression test are ok but not good at fiding leaks. The leak down will tell you how much psi its actualy holds. Can find your possiable leak much easier. Tis a few ways to do the leak down to test rings and valves by addin oil. But find a proper how to first.

 

ok, reset my rockers, all pistons are hitting 120 then 150.

Pick up coil is fine
Getting ICM tested tommorow on way home from work.
All during 2 test of adjusting rockers, injectors never leaked one drop.

 

ICM tested fine
I still can not find my vac leak.
Timing is at 9deg

Please help, this f-ing car is starting to **** me off

 

ok findin a vac leak is easy.....just replace ALL vac hoses....your out what $30 aprox. ifin you still have the leak then it's the intake. I mean did it to my cutlass oncw and my bird twice (which still won't run more then a day)

and ifin my brain is right rich/lean refers to air........then that is your problem.

 

join the club

 

I've replaced over half the vac lines, sprayed the rest with wd40 while it was running.

Valves are all closing

Replaced all the gaskets, except the ones between the heads and intake.


rich = to much gas/not enough spark/not enough air
lean = not enough gas/to much spark/to much air

 

lol same here

Id do a vac leak test with a smoke machine, a vac leak can come from other places other than hoses, my old soob had a vac leak from a bad gasket (which one I forget, think tb?)

 

Spark has absolutly NOTHING to do with it.

A misfire can cause a rich condition, but that's not because of the a "not enough spark" issue

Trust me, I know it must be getting old hearing this from me, but if it's not black smoke, it's not fuel.

Here's what I would suggest. This will prove if you're even entering Closed Loop.

Start the engine and then ground the ALDL like you're checking for codes. If the car is in Open Loop, the SES light will blink fast, once it goes into Closed Loop, it will blink slower. The blinks will cycle on/off once/second. If the light is on longer than off, the O2 is reporting a rich condition and vice-versa.

While you're at it, check the O2 voltage. Even a semi-live reading on a multimeter will give you an idea of activity.

Never rule anything out because you doubt it's the problem. Check everything. IIRC, this engine is fairly new, right? The rings might not be seated yet, it's a possibility.

I know this sucks to say, but if you don't have the tools or knowledge to check something out, then you should probably have a shop look at it. Obviously you know there is something wrong, but you're going around in circles and you're starting to get to the point that you're throwing parts and money at it without actually getting anywhere. Try the ALDL thing and see if it gives you any insight as to what's going on . Maybe it'll bring up something that you never would have thought about before.

 

Spark has nothing to do with running rich or lean? New on me. If you dont get enough spark, you cant get a complete burn *shrugs*

Thanks, I asked this above about gas and nobody told me. This is one of the things I've questioned since this all happened 10sec after I filled up with gas, but nobody would verify it.

Remeber seeing nates picture of the black **** on the ground? Mines doing same thing, just not as drastic. It fouled out a set of plugs in 17 miles. Its carboned up another set of plugs driving around my neighborhood and some test starts in the garage. What else carbons up plugs?

I have an onboard o2 meter, its pegged. Once in a while it will blink down.

I bought it off of nate, it had 55k miles on it then. I've had it 2 years, but I only drive about 6k miles a year. I rebuilt 80% of the engine before I dropped it in. Only thing I didnt do was pull the crank, pistons, cam.

I've got 3 rolling tool chest, a gray cabinet wider then I can reach, floor to ceiling just in the garage. Thats not whats "lost" in 2 bedrooms, stashed in the attic, or at my storage unit. Only thing I know I dont have the tools for is rebuild a tranny. I have a father with 40+ years on cars, 3 friends with ase certification, and a handful of other friends that tinker. I've been given a few suggestions, most of which I would rather try other things as I dont think thats it, or I dont have the time to do it (tell this holiday weekend).

Only part I have bought which I didnt intend to, was coil. I planned on plugs this weekend, it needed oil changed, I planned on re-setting the rockers (not pull them off ) , planned on o2 sensor, and I had the cap/rotor sitting around.

BTW, timing is at 9deg cold. Thats one I totally over looked tell last night Thus the reason for posting here and asking. "what have I missed".

Tonight I'm draining a full tank of gas, and filling with premium. Hopefully it will make it to the gas station.

 

Couple of ideas:

Remove the CCP line from the engine side and plug it. The statement 'this all happened 10sec after I filled up with gas' makes me wonder if the canister is flooded with fuel.

If that isn't it put a scan tool on it and check the O2 reading and the BLM values. The O2 may be bad which can cause the ECM to add fuel. If the BLMs are high (160 or so), then I's say a bad O2 or the O2 wire is shorted to ground.

If the BLMs are low (106) then fuel is being added above and beyond what the ECM is commanding.

If that is the case then I'd tackle the FPR and injectors. Not many other things can cause this issue. (Although, at this point in time the oil can be gas soaked and be feeding the engine via the PCV).


This past Summer I replaced the injectors in the '92. The only symptoms that there was a problem was that the engine didn't quite run right. At times it was rough, other times lopey, lousy gas mileage, and low BLMs. The low BLMs was key, told me that the injectors were most likely leaking.

I did pressure drop tests, ohmed out the injectors while hot and cold. Everything looked good, no issues to be found. Knowing what Multecs are like and that the BLMs were low, I replaced them.

Difference is night and day, the used Bosch injectors brought the engine back, runs great, mileage is back.

As for drop in Bosch injectors, Ford gray tops can be used. Check the Lindertech site, that is how I found out about them. Later I'll edit/post some numebrs and models they are used on.

RBob.

{edit} One more thing to check with the scan tool, the coolant (CTS) and intake air (IAT) temperatures. If the CTS is bad it will cause the ECM to stay open loop and command a lot of fuel (cold engines need a lot). If the IAT is bad is will cause the ECM to enrich the fuel.

Here is the info on the injectors:

{/edit}

 

CCP Line?? Purge canister? Gives me idea of pulling the hvac and almost everything that doesnt make this engine run to eleminate anything for vac problems.

I dont have a scan tool, working on it though. My new laptop doesnt have the 9pin port, so I'm trying to see if an adapter to the 25pin will work.

o2 sensor is BRAND NEW. And yes, installing it helped some, but not all the way.

Rbob, do they list any 17-18lb injectors? I have a modded 3.4 under this injection system. I do have 2 other sets of 17lb injectors, and still have my 19lb injectors which were a bit to much.

 

The gas I'm pumping out seems to have a green tint to it, rather then **** yellow.

Hopefully I'm on the right track here finally.

 

there you go. Maybe its in the gas. Someone dumped a big bottle of 2 stroke oil in your tank to mess with you. Would have to be luck though as most are smokless now a days.

coolant, green jello mix, cool-aid

Did you give out apples or something for trick or treat?

 

Actually, if you go back to the first thread, all this started after I filled up with gas. I'm guessing some how desiel (sp?) got into some of there gas. Car went from running fine, to running like *** in 10seconds flat.

But to answer you, I have a locking gas cap, and I'm not sure what the family passed out for trick or treat

 

id turn the ful pump on and drain the sucker down to around 1/4[don't abuse pump, runin so low.]

Then just fill that sucker full of good gas. It should water it down enough.

 

CCP: Charcoal Cannister Purge. If the valve is bad or the cannister is flooded, lots of fuel can be fed to the engine. Can just plug the line to the TB for a check out.

As for larger injectors in Bosch, there are some 18.55#/hr that are easy to get:
---------
For a decent injector upgrade there are some 18.55 #/hr Bosch injectors that are readily available. They are on the FWD 3800 and 3.8 Buicks. Real easy to get off as they are right on top. Four bolts and the rail is pulled.

The Bosch number is 280-150-901. This number is molded onto the side of the top portion of the injector next to the connector. This injector is a direct fit for the Multecs, along with being high impedence.

Should also make some calibration changes to the bin whenever the injector size is changed.
---------

These are the ones I put into the '92 3.1. With a 3.4L engine the calibration change requirement is reduced.

If you think that diesel fuel my have been put into the tank, if so that would be a problem. Obtain some fuel from the tank and place it into a pan. Gasoline will readily evaporate, fuel oil will not.

RBob.

 

no just drop it all just for that fact. I left like 2 gallons in my car and added like 8 and the crap still smells like turpintine.

 

ok, was able to drain about 8-9 gallons out. Syphon didnt want to work after that, I think its because the end has to be lower then the start... and my car is freakin low.

Seems to run better, its atleast driveable untill you go to hotrod it.

I let the engine warm up fully, and my vac leak is still 1lb which is worse then it was before. I dx my hvac lines, vac bulb, plugged that off, and sprayed everything I could think that would leak with wd40, and it didnt rev. I am thinking an internal gasket blew.

Rbob, I will try your purge canister thing tommorow. I also knew about the FWD injectors from previous thread. I just havent gotten to the j/y to find them.

I know I need a new prom in the worst way, just finding someone, paying them, and able to get a propper system scan for them to base it off.