So back in August of last year i traded a motorcycle for this poor little bird. The motor was locked up and half the body wasn't original or matching in color. I just ordered a used replacement 3.1 from HawksThirdGenParts.com 5 minutes ago so i should be seeing that soon. I have the entire set of new gaskets, new spark plugs and wires, and a new serpentine belt. I'm ordering the Melling MTC-5 Camshaft and lifter set this coming weekend. Still have to replace the radiator and hoses and buy a battery, but hopefully after that i should be able to hear my baby start up for the first time. I"m also getting the Pacesetter Mid-tube Headers and flow master 2.5" exhaust with an off road pipe. Bigger fuel injectors and a complete aftermarket ignition system rated at 48k volts should do this car pretty nicely. I'm also thinkin about changing the ring and pinion gears from 3.23:1 to 3.73:1. Oh i almost forgot, i've also been stripping all paint off the body so i could see what everything looks like underneath. Glad i did, found some things i didn't really like. I've been slowly working on the body work as i can get to it. Once i get the body work done and get it primered i'm taking it to a paint shop and having it painted. The car originally was bright red, but i'm thinking black would look so much better. the interior is black already so that would work well. Kinda been toyin with the idea of going with the smokey and the bandit theme... i have the formula/trans am hood


So... what does everyone think?? I'm trying to bring this car back to life and make it unique to my area... which i think will definitely be the case with a cam'd, tweaked out v6 bird lol. But yea, i want opinions everyone.

 

my opinion? The headers and the other performance upgrades are not going to give you any boost in performance that will make it worth the trouble or cost. If you're going to go with a v6, just make it look nice and have fun cruising around town with it. Don't fool yourself into thinking there is a way to make that engine into a powerhouse.

I drive a v6 only because I don't care about going fast. Good thing, because that engine has next to no punch to it

 

Well i'm not like planning on building a bracket racing car out of it, lol. I really love these cars and want to make mine unique and fun to drive. I think adding a little pep to it's step and shining it up are worth the time and money.

I think obviously if i was worried about having a powerhouse engine, i would have bought a v8. I just want it to be fun to drive and not suck down gas like a college kid does cheap beer.

 

other can chime in one how much pep those mods you're doing will add, but it might not even be all that noticable. It's your money though, I hope you see the improvement in it so you don't look back and think.. "wow, i just went to all that trouble, and this was all the improvement I saw?"


From what I saw, you're planning on dropping way over $1000 on those engine tweaks. How much HP are you hoping to wind up with at the end of the day?

 

Bigger fuel injectors won't do a thing other than throw a code unless you tune the ECM as well. MTC-5 is a relatively weak cam... If you're looking for some bang, look into Elgin's cam kits or some of the custom grinds offered by ForcedFirebird. For what you're doing, if you want to see some decent numbers, throw a set of 3x00 heads on there and REALLY get some gains (around 40HP and 40 TQ using 3.1 pistons).

:edit: I hope you didn't pick up an Accel ignition system... There's better to be had (MSD).

 

I'm not buying any bolt ons other than cam and exhaust until after i get it running lol. But i was looking at a couple different MSD set-ups. All i'm really looking for out of a cam is a little extra power if possible, but mainly i want it to sound better, meaner... for a v6 that is. Well i should have the motor around march 19th so i will go from there. I will be updating this thread with pics and updates as they happen.

 

Welcome to the forum!

It sounds like you've got some ideas, and I'm not going to rain on your parade. It's cool you're into the car. If you really want to know what modifications we think you should do, you can ask and get answers. If you want to take your own path, you'll probably enjoy that just as much.

 

Well thank you Drew. I just want everyone to know that i realize i have a v6 firebird, and for now i'm just tryin to make it look nice while making the best out of the v6. Later on as i can afford to, i will build a v8 to suit what i want out of the car and put it in when i'm ready. This might be a year or two so that's why i'm willing to put some money in this v6. Once i swap the 6 for the 8 i'm building a custom street rail and using the v6 for it... thinking way too far ahead now.

Back on subject, i'd like advice from fellow v6 bird owners who have done some modification on where i should go with it. I don't want to have to replace internals any time soon, which is why i am doing the cam and all new gaskets before i put the motor in. Any recommendations on a good street cam with good sound? Is it even worth changing? Any suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks

 

the first thing I would do is investigate how much these mods you are talking about are going to cost, factor in something for labor, and then realize that all that money will more or less go to waste when you pull that engine out and put in a V8.

If you aren't committing to the V6 for now and always, just wait on any engine work. In the meantime get the rest of the car looking the way you want it to, and save your money for the engine you really want

 

If you're looking to do something like that with the 6 pack in the future, you may want to consider a late-model cylinder head and intake swap (2000+ model years for best flowing intake and heads). The heads flow much better than the stock iron heads and junk intake plenum, and have a bigger throttle body for better air flow, plus adaptors are available to fit bigger throttle bodies. All of this will work with a cam and headers to allow the engine to breathe better and build decent power. I don't know how much power you're looking for, but, if you have a 5-speed or plan on using one, you might want to look into a stronger transmission than the stock one, which tends to fail around 350HP (the case splits, as I'm told).

 

I will definitely consider that, thanks Maverick. Will those heads work with the internals it has now? Better yet, i'll look for that info on the forum. I know newbies like me can be a bit annoying with all the questions that get asked lol.

To answer your question, i'd be happy with anything at or above 250hp out of the v6.

 

A decent cam and headers plus the late model top end, with your existing pistons (not really any need to use the late model dished pistons as those engines have crank throws and connecting rods that extend the pistons from the block), and the late model head gaskets, should easily get you there or beyond. You will require ECM tuning, however, which should probably be done AFTER the engine is together and running, so it can be fine-tuned. So you'll need to look into that, as well.

 

Nice :-) I'm gonna check into the late model top end now.

 

I recently landed a kickass job and might sell my top end now that the manufacturer of the HGs I had just recalled them, basically it set my completion date back which makes me very much not a happy camper, I wanted to be ready for summer with it, but now I might just shell out for a v8 swap, the problem is the parts I already bought for the v6...
I've got 3400 heads(one valve is stuck open though, not quite sure why, my guess is it might be bent) with full valvetrain, no pushrods though, 3400 intake manifolds, complete with fuel rail and injectors, as well as injector harness, throttle body, and electronic EGR valve. As well as MLS gaskets when they send out the correct ones.....
Basically if you don't need internals on the bottom end, all you would need is the gaskets for intake manis on up, pushrods, setup DIS if your 3.1 doesn't have it. So let me know if you're interested and I'll get back to you on whether or not I can sell them(depends on how my other options look).

 

I'm definitely interested in this. Did u have to do anything different with the ecm once you switched to the newer top end?

 

I didn't do the actual swap and might not due to my current situation, but a new ECM would be needed for the purpose of being able to tune it.

 

Not necessarily. The 302 can be tuned--there are definitions for the bin available, both through TunerPro, Moates, and the 60*V6 website. The 730 in the 90-92 cars can also be tuned. The reason I don't want to use either is because neither supports the SFI I'm looking to attempt to make work, which is why I'm planning on using a PCM from a 94-95 3400 DOHC W-body.

:edit: I also did some poking around and found some killer FelPro head gaskets, pretty much the same thing as the ROL and otherwise upgraded HGs commonly used in swaps...http://www.jegs.com/i/Fel-Pro/375/10...oductId=746458

 

Why don't you just buy my buick and put a 3100 in there

 

I find RWD to be more fun.

 

No, I meant to remove the engine,lol. And even if not, its RWD in reverse :P Other day I pulled off a pretty slick move...someone assclown dumped a crapton of snow all over my hood for god knows what reason, couldn't even see out the windshield, so floored it in reverse, whipped it 90* around a bend...and drove off like it was nothing

 

nice to see another bird saved,its your car so have fun with it

 

Well i got the engine yesterday and everything seems good. Now if i can just find time to get it put in, working 16 hour days doesn't give me much time to do anything else. Hopefully this weekend i can get it put in and see how she runs.

 

Ok so i haven't gotten on here and posted anything in quite some time now. Since i was last on here i have installed the new motor with the old trans and got everything hooked up, replaced everything in the fuel and ignition systems (including fuel pump), replaced all exhaust bolts, studs and gaskets, put a cold air intake on, did misc. body work and now the car is primed and ready for paint, debugged a major computer/ignition/vats/lighting wiring issue clusterf**k, tinted the tail lights, installed hid headlight conversion (H4), replaced the computer and the chip along with the vats module, replaced the bushings in the headlight motors, installed new hood struts, all new speakers and head unit (double din navi coming soon), and other various little things. All in all this has been a big project as expected, but totally worth it to me. I took everyone's advice and kept it stock mostly, it's fast enough for now. It'll be FAST once i build a v8 and drop it in there... i'm gonna take my time on that one and make sure it will last. All in all though, everything is coming along nicely and it should be back on the road and legal just after the first of the year!! I'll be a proud third gen driver at last!! lol

 

Ok, after reading through this thread again i have decided to take a bit of the advice i got. I'm sticking with the v6 after learning that i can get up to 400-500hp out of it with some modifications and a turbo running up to 20 psi. I found a 3.6l stroker kit with forged components and some aluminum heads online... just trying to track down all the valvtrain components needed to safely run 20lbs of boost. I've been looking at the sticky in the v6 section about installing a turbo and talking to people who have turbo'd their cars and decided that keeping it a v6, boring/stroking it to a 3.6, building it up (forged/aluminum/titanium components, upgrade fuel/ignition systems) and putting a turbo on it and getting a megasquirt ecm will be better in the long run than doing a v8 swap. Since i already have about what the car is worth if not more invested into it, i've decided i'm keeping it til there's no more hope for it. That being said, this should be a long, but fun project and i can't wait til it's finished. Looking at the estimated hp gains of everything i have planned, it should be sitting around 400+hp in about a year or two. I'm going to buy another replacement v6 from HawksThirdGenParts.Com and build that one up until it's ready and then take the time to swap everything at once and get it tuned and back on the road as quick as possible. Also i have decided to do a auto to 5-speed swap when doing the motor swap and turbo install.

I attached 3 pictures, the first one is from before i owned the car... and probably a big reason why it was so messed up, the previous owner didn't take good care of it. The second one is a picture of the replacement engine i had to buy to put in it, sitting on the pallet it was delivered on. The third picture is one of the most recent pics i have of the car.

 

Well, at least you're moving forwards... 75% of mine is in the garage and the rest is in the driveway. You CANNOT bore and stroke a 3.1 to 3.6L without compromising the structural integrity of the block. Best bet is to get a 3.4 and drive the car as is until you have the other engine built up (3.4 has a different block).

Other than that, yes, I would go to a MegaSquirt II with the latest code and board (mine's right here next to me...). You can keep your existing MAP sensor and wire it to the MSII, but leave the onboard MAP for barometer correction. You will need to cut the ECM connectors off and wire in the MSII (no adaptor board for the 730 ECM) or make a piggyback system so that the stock ECM can control certain parts of the engine. Check with your local inspection shop to find out what's legal in terms of emissions control devices, as the MSII controls NONE. Keep in mind that if you go with the MSII alone, you will need to get your hands on a VSS buffer box and associated wiring as the ECM is what actually drives your speedometer from the trans mounted VSS.

 

Well thanks for the tips on the MSII, that's good info to have. Progress has temporarily come to a halt, i'm out of work for the time being. As soon as i get a new job and get some money coming in again i will be back at it. The car is almost ready for the road, just waiting on the exhaust to get installed, a new pair of tires for the front, a front end alignment, a windshield and then off to shop for safety inspection and hopefully to the dmv for plates!! After that i'll be getting new front/rear bumpers, ground effects and spoiler then it's painting time, since i'm pretty good at painting cars i'll be doing that myself. Well i'm outta here for now, i'll keep y'all posted as things change. Sometimes i can't believe how far i've come with this car, it was destined for the salvage yard when i picked it up and now it's almost ready for a whole new life back on the road.

 

If you need bumpers and effects let me know. I am over in IL and have them all.