With Christmas coming up, Ive been thinking of getting a wet kit.
http://www.amazon.com/NOS-07005NOS-S.../dp/B000VVZ2I8 and a purge. so I have a few questions.
With a 50HP shot:
Where should I set the timing? I have it at 12* (instead of 10 stock)
Should I use the micro-switch to activate of a push button?
Where should I mount the micro-switch?
Where should I mount the nozzle? Before or after the throttle body?
Where should I mount all the switches and the purge button?

I know tuning would be the best idea but do you guys have tips for running it without tuning? My motor isn't stock either, here's a quick mod list:
3.4 60*V6
Edelbrock 3790 Cam & Lifters
COMP Cams Magnum Steel Roller Tip Rocker Arms 1414-12
COMP Cams High Energy Pushrods 7816-12
COMP Cams Valve Springs 980-12
PaceSetter Headers 70-1206
Accel super coil
MagnaFlow Highflow cat
2.5in Exhaust
MSD 6AL2 (2step rev limiter)
8mm Jegs plug wires
Ported intake

 

Ha, a 50 shot. You're going to want alot more very soon. I took mine all the way to 200 with 10psi from a t3 before I was happy with the little booger. Then some stuff melted and exploded. It was pretty fun.

Anyway, the rule of thumb is to retard -2 degrees for every 50hp of nitrous. See if your MSD coil has any kind of built in retard function you can use. Do yourself a favor and get some cheap copper plugs one heat range cooler than stock and backcut them. The microswitch should be wired in series with the pushbutton so both have to be depressed for the nitrous to fire. I used an aircraft style switch on the dash as a failsafe (the ecm fired the nitrous) and a pushbutton for the purge. Since you're using a wet kit be sure it's behind the maf. Pre or post throttle isn't terribly important but keep it close to the throttle. I made an adapter for the egr port, but that may not work well for you. Why am I explaining this look at this.

 

50hp - waste of time. Start with at least 75. My 3.1 didn't get fun until 125hp.

 

Well, I'm just trying to start low. I don't want to throw a crap load of nitrous in it from the start. And the jets aren't that expensive that I can buy more.

Im planing to put the nozzle before the throttle body, and run 9* timing for a start. Might delete the radio for a switch panel.

 

No, I understand that, but I've also been there, done that. You probably won't even feel 50hp, it's a waste of nitrous. 75hp was a difference that could be felt, but still not really that exciting. I went to 125hp because that's the combo I could put together with the jets I had on hand. I didn't have any reservations about running a 150 shot, I just never got around to it.

I had to go back and update the links, but you can see my install in this 2004 thread... https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/2...soned-3-a.html
I didn't change anything from normal street trim, stock timing, stock ignition including the Bosch platinum plugs I ran everyday, and so on. Never so much as a hint of a problem. A purge setup would have been nice, but I only had one air bubble in the 3 bottles I ran though the car. My only real complaint was the expense of the N2O. A 10lb bottle could be consumed in an evening just goofing off.

 

Next question:
On my MSD box I have the rev limiter set at 4.5k, and it cuts out the spark. So if Im on the nitrous and it bounces of the limiter spark goes off then back on, will I have a problem? Like a nitrous backfire?

Also why copper plugs?

 

Go over to Holley's website (or Summit) and read the instructions for just about any nitrous setup. Easily 2/3rds of the manual is safety precautions and FAQ. It'll probably answer most of the questions you have, and a bunch you haven't thought of yet.

Nitrous backfire is usually the result of fuel/nitrous puddling. It can be avoided by not activating nitrous at a low RPM. If you're only going to run up to 4,500rpm, get yourself a window switch and set the nitrous to turn off before your rev limit. You can also use the window switch to activate the nitrous automatically at a predetermined RPM (3,000+).

Sniper kits LOOK like a great deal, until you consider what you're really getting. Most of the time they're not as adjustable or versatile as a normal Super Powershot kit. They use an old style medical valve, and cheaper components throughout. Also buy the kit that's closest to what you want, because you can spend a small fortune on odd's and end's to build what you want. They get you with the extras.

 

Thanks for the information. I found the RPM window switches and I really like the idea of one. If fact I think I'll buy that before the purge.

@ the sniper kit, I was comparing between a powerfogger kit and the sniper kit and the only differences I could find were the bottle, Solenoids, number of jets it came with and the price. I'm not really sure the differences in the solenoids but I'm sure its significant. I would think for just just starting out the sniper kit would be okay. But after doing price research I found the profogger kit only 50$ more then the sniper kit so I'll probbably order that. Summitracings prices are alot higher then Amazon.com

 

The solenoids are smaller in the cheaper kits, mine limited me to 175 so I drilled the passages out. I don't think it will be a problem for you lol.

 

Just check your local laws, lots of places have pass new ones that if caught with NOS on the street its an automatic street racing offence. [ohio]
Which can mean losing your car for good.

Like how in some places if you get caught pee'in outside, you now must register as a sex offender.

Very broad blanket rules with no le-way.

 

The big thing about Sniper kits is they're starter kits, they offer very little expandability. The valve in the bottle is limited, so are the solenoids. If you decide to upgrade later, use it on something else, or sell it, it might not do you much good. The typical blue bottle kits give you a lot more for the money. That said, short of a cheater kit the solenoids are going to limit you to about a 200hp jetting.

Also keep in mind if you want to run it on a track instead of just on the street, the bottle needs to be vented outside the car. If it's in the hatch area or passengers compartment you need a racers blow off valve kit and a blowdown tube.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NOS-16169NOS/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NOS-16160NOS/
As you already noticed, prices can vary. Amazon usually has pretty good deals on NOS (the brand name). http://www.nitroussupply.com/ also usually beats Summit's prices on NOS. Once you decide what you want, do a Google search for the part numbers you want to order and shop around. Sometimes you can find better deals.

Purge kits seem to be more about showing off then function... The idea is to prevent air in the line from causing a soft spot in the run (it's kind of like hitting the brakes from full throttle). It's mildly annoying... The $120 can probably be saved if you don't need absolute consistency. You can probably piece together most of the "purge kit" from parts and a trip to the hardware store and save a buck.

 

I believe it is allowed in your car, just not hooked up. I will check the laws though.

@Drew, Thanks for that link. The blow off valve and the tube are on my list of things to get also, just further down on the list for now because there isn't a track around. But I will be ordering them for safety.
The purge is for showing off manly for me but now I'm starting to think it will get me in trouble, doing more harm then good.

Thanks for the help!

 

But you know how it is, gonna be your word against a cops.
you can claim it wasn't turned on but how do ya prove that?

Would need to be like carrying a guy, remove a good section of hose and have it locked away so it cannot be used at all without stopping the car.
Like keeping the gun and the clip separate and locked away from each other.


That’s the tricky part, which for me would mean the only way to run it safely is to hide it 110% like your smugglin drugs.


Id say over the wheel well on the left side, where you could open the lock box in the back, yank out the cardboard liner and reach up and in where you can just get you hand on the valve to turn it on or off would be a good place. Spare side is to open if they were to look there. Think of a low level or just poking around search for anything of interest they often ask to do, Gotta hide it from that. Even if found unhooked, it will go on your record.
Like finding some rolling papers, even if used legally for tobacco, you know they will be watching for you.


And yea a purge will be asking for it, if you can see it, they could see it too.


Could mount it under the hood and slap a halo fire suppression sticker on it

 

I can understand all that. But If I hide the tank in the spare tire well, I'm sure I'll be fine. Cops around here don't break your ***** or search you unless they smell drugs or alcohol. Only times I've been pulled over was when I was being a tool. So unless I purge next to a cop then do a peel out I should be okay. I also dont plan on keeping the bottle in my car everyday.

 

MY aunt ordered this for me tonight http://www.amazon.com/NOS-05131-Univ.../dp/B000COXA74

I'm gonna start with a 75 shot, after Christmas I'd like to get the RPM window switch.

 

A window switch is a good idea. Keep it cool and well fed and you won't have a problem.

 

It's here, I just have to wait until Christmas to install!

 

Started installing it and checked for leaks. The Fuel hose from the rail to the solenoid leaks bad, but not from the fittings. It leaks from where the braided hose is crimped into the fitting. Any Ideas? I think I'm going to have to buy a new one and return the old one. Think I could solder it?

 

There is rubber under that brain, its a failed crimp.

 

Those lines should be teflon lined, i.e. they'll melt if you get them hot enough to solder. Call Holley/NOS and have them send you a new line.

I used a brass 90* swivel fitting between the fuel hose and the schrader valve... I don't much care for how NOS wants you to screw a stiff straight stainless line into a vertical fitting, then bend the hose over horizontal... NOS part number 17535 is basically the same as what I used to take the stress off the stainless line.

 

Awesome. Thanks for the help.

NOSHELPLINE is closed for the Holidays. Figures.
Maybe I'll take a trip to sears hardware and try to get something figured out. I'd like to be playing with this sometime this week.

Drew, did you use that swivel connected straight to the rail then a hose from the swivel to the solenoid? Was the fuel rail -4AN or 1/8in?

Have a good holiday!

 

The female end screws right onto the schrader valve (remove the core first) then the hose screws on the male end. The current version of that part is nickel/chrome plated steel, in the mid 90's it was just brass. The GM schrader valves are -4 an.

Don't get excited and do something stupid... The few days it'll take to get a proper replacement isn't going to kill you. You've only got a few options for fixing it yourself. You could carefully cut the crimp sleeve, cut the hose down, and have a hydraulic supply house put a new crimp on the line. Or you could get a reusable fitting and cut the old end off, and install the new fitting. Either way assumes you have local businesses that carry Aeroquip or other specialized fittings.

Take the time while you're waiting on Holley/NOS, to plan out your install, and start mocking it up in your car. You're bound to find something about the instruction book install that you really won't like, and you'll want to change. I ordered and returned several parts before I finally got the system in the car, and since then I've changed the setup a few times to make it more user-friendly.

 

I got tired of waiting for Holley. I found a few shops semi-local and got a new line and a swivel elbow. The line was 9$ and what made right in front of me and the elbow was only 7$, plus the 12$ in gas I think I did pretty well.

The speed shop closest to me wont have anymore nitrous for a couple months because its the off season, but I found another place about 45minutes away I'm going to call tomorrow. I Also found the same kit I bought on craigslist for 175$ I think I might buy it and sell the solenoids and keep the bottle for an extra. I'll call him tomorrow also.

Haven't done anything install wise yet either, If Its not freezing out tomorrow I think I'll set up the wiring and the solenoids.

 

So whatever happened with this? Did you ever get it installed in the car?

 

I got it all setup up and installed. Using a 75 shot. It pulls harder then with out the bottle for sure. I'll take some pictures of the install soon.

 

Ignore the white hose on the intake, that was for a ghetto purge I setup before I sold the solenoid and also ignore the unhooked up mechanical temp gauge.

 

IM guessing that its feel like more but is still kinda ho hum still or you would of posted right after your first ride???

 

No, it really kicks in. I'm just too embarrassed to show under my hood haha. Its such a mess. And I just about forgot this thread.

My setup's still sketchy too. Push button activation. No safety blow down tube. Bottles not bolted down yet. The weather here sucks, We just got an ice storm and were suppose to get hit again Friday. The Firebirds my daily driver also.

 

So with a 75 shot you will be running high 15s in the quarter? Does this sound about right?

 

I'm thinking with my other engine mods and suspension mods, Im hoping high 14

 

Nope. You need more than that to take 3 secs off your time.

 

What do stock 3.4s run?

 

75hp isn't enough to really see the benefit. I ran my 3.1 with it jetted at 75hp for one or two presses of the button. I pulled into a parking lot and changed the jets for 100hp, that lasted about half a bottle. I stopped at 125hp because I didn't want to buy another pair of jets. In other words, bump it up to 100 and you'll know you're getting your money's worth. At 125hp my 3.1 was fast enough to make everyone chuckle that rode in it. For being such a slug NA it was a riot with nitrous.

I bolted my bottle to a chunk of 2x10 and bolted on a few pieces of radio rack so I could anchor it to the lower seat cushion bolt in the back seat. Some generic black carpet made it look decent. Bolted to the passengers side it was easy to reach back there and open the bottle while driving.

The V6 throttle body doesn't give you an easy way to mount a WOT switch. It might be easier to fab something under the dash activated by the gas pedal. I just stuck with a push button out of simplicity.

My first install wasn't pretty or perfect, but it worked. Later it evolved into a decent looking setup that worked even better. Once you get comfortable with the system, you can tweak the install to make it look nice.

 

In a 4th gen mid 17's. Yours is probably a little lighter. I'm guessing with nitrous you'll be somewhere in the 15's. Really depends on how heavy it actually is and wether or not you can get your 60' down, and to do that you need to launch at a higher rpm. The stock converter will KILL your 60' even with good traction. Launching at 2k blows, it's not a v8 and it just doesn't have the torq to heave itself into the sweet zone from that speed. I could only push my turbo 3050lb camaro to a 2.2sec 60' with 3.73 gears trying to blow through the stock converter. Definately would have been sub 2sec if I had a decent converter.

 

Darn

Well It's still fun to drive none the less. After the next snow storm I'm gonna try 100hp shot.

 

Get a converter in it and make the tires stick and I think you'll be suprised.

 

Where can I get a converter for a V6? Are they the same a V8s for the 700R4?

 

Check out summit racing. Make sure it specifies v6, a v8 converter won't work. If you're on a budget a 3.1 converter will stall around 2800rpm. I'd go higher than that (like 3200-3500) but it's a good starting place otherwise.

 

I dunno all the details on why, but I know folks go after the TC from a 60* V6 truck. [probably higher stall]

 

Summit doesn't have torque converters for V6 and 700R4

 

S-10 converters stall around 2500rpm. Not sure why the f-body 2.8's got screwed on the converter.

Edit- they do you just have to look.

 

My point was, you could have got a junk 350 for the nitrous mods youve done to this V6. And still get better results at the track with a stock converter.

 

Hello Mr Obvious,

Rest asurded we all know this, and have heard it all since the V6 came out on why doing -------- to a V6 car is a waste, buy a V8 bla bla bla bla.

Go sell a Eskimo some ice, you'll have better luck.

 

If you haven't noticed, this is the V6 section. We don't care about putting in junk 350's. Stay in the V8 sections unless you have something helpful to add. I like my car with a V6, that's why I kept it a V6.

 

Sorry man i was looking in "New post"..... . Cheers

 

Thanks man, but for Christ sake do everyone a favor befor these cars become a rarity....Get a godamn V8.

 

Don't mind us if we jump on you for bringing up something v8 related. You'd think we were odd too if we went to the tpi/tbi boards spouting how great 3x00 motors are and that everyone driving an iron head dinosaur v8 is wasting their money. We just have a different perspective.

 

If you want to talk rarity, Aren't cars worth more with engines matching the VIN instead of a hack job V8 swap?

 

Yes, like i said i dropped my opinion in without knowing the circumstances... And yes your right engine matching the vin is most likely worth more. unless your the rarity like me that plan on keeping there Third gen for the rest of your life. : ) I would go with a 350 later on...hell even now.

 

I have no problem driving my V-6s and trust me, I have PLENTY of V8 options to drive.

I'd also never buy a V6 to V8 swap car, in my eyes it halves the value of the V6 car, especially if they did a EFI to Carb swap in the process.