ok...for some reason i'm not getting any spark, could that be because i have the timing set off really bad? or might there be something that is hooked up wrong? I don't think anything is hooked up wrong b/c i have douple checked everything, but i don't understand why i can't read any spark. But sometimes there is a back fire?

thanks

 

Your distributor might be off.... With the #1 cylinder at TDC, it should point just about directly at the #1 cylinder... maybe in between #1 & #3. Other than that, it could be a lot of things. Ignition coil, wires, cap, spark module, etc....

------------------
-------------------
-Steve-
--'87 Camaro LT --
Successful 2.8->3.4 swap...

 

thanks for the quick reply,,,is there anyway i can check the spark module?


[This message has been edited by wicked 88 cam (edited April 29, 2001).]

 

You can check the spark modular, by telling us it worked before youdid the swap.
No need what you would not have it working now.
Do the finger blow out trick.
Undo the #1 plug, put your finger over that spark plug hole and get it to Top Dead Center.
Get timing balancer mark at "0".
Check the distributor, it should be pointing at number 1 on the cap. If not, loosen, reset, drop back in.
Try again.
If the car ran before, it'll run again.
Keep at it, you've come this far, not much more !

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

everything worked on the 2.8 before the swap. I've checked all wiring again, and everything seems to be hooked up right. i also hear something in my injection, i think it is only gas flowing through, b/c the fuel pump stays on after the key is in "off" position. But i know if i could get a spark then it would run, b/c i have had the #1 piston in TDC plenty of times. But owell i'm not giving up.....

 

Check your grounds.
Thanks for acknowledging that it ran before.
Trace all wires & grounds to block, etc.
YOU WILL FIND IT!
As I've said, it's all in the details.
Fuel pump run on after engine off is 100% proper. Runs for about 3-5 secs.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

i have one wire thing that i don't know where it goes,,,,it looks like a metal shoestring, i say shoe string b/c it has laces on it, but i wasn't sure where that went so i havn't put it back on yet...i've traced all of the other wires tho, and everything else seems to look ok owell neva givin up...thanks....

 

That shoelace looking thing is a ground wire. Usually it is grounded to the firewall just to the left (from front looking back) of the distributor.

Vman

------------------
1969 Camaro Sport Coupe
383, 700R4, leather, everything black but the lights

Previous owner of an 89 RS Camaro
2.8L V6, 700R4

 

ok cool...i see were to hook it up on the firewall....i just don't see where to hook it up to on the block, or the ignition....

thanks

 

Running outside real quick mid-post to see where on the engine it hooks up..

(btw, without the engine grounded the spark has nowhere to travel.. this would explain your no-spark situation completely, as well as a slew of other problems you probably haven't noticed)

Ok, it's dark and my flashlight is dead.. the best I could trace it is to either the intake manifold or a valve cover. (it was connected within 1" of where the head, intake, and valve cover meet). Passenger's side, back by the distributor.

------------------
'86 Camaro SC, black /w silver racing stripes
2.8l MPFI/700r4 /w special 2nd gear delete option
In search of new v8 engine & transmission, now contemplating t5 swap to get me out of this mess.
Misc Mods: Cut air box, '83 Firebird spoiler.
Performance Parts: MSD coil, Accel 8mm wires, SplitFire plugs, Gabriel hijackers.
Audio Mods: Pioneer DEH-P3000, two 12" Optimus Pro Audio subs in hand-made enclosure each powered by a 260 watt Optimus amp. Working on shaving the box for weight.
My Homepage, with pics.

 

hey thanks a lot tech... the easiest spot i could see to hook it up was on the drivers side head...i havn't checked yet for spark b/c i ran out of time last night...but i'm going to do it now....thanx

wicked..

 

well i just checked to see if it worked...and i still have no spark owell anyone else have any other options? i'm open for anything right now....owell still no giving up, i've spent to much money time and effort to quit now....

wicked

[This message has been edited by wicked 88 cam (edited May 03, 2001).]

 

What coil set up are you using?

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

i'm using the 2.8's set up maybe something happend to it from the swap,,,,but idon't have a clue...

wicked

 

You MAY have your answer, now.
Wrecking yard time for cheap trial & error.
Coils need not be mounted to engine to work, so go grab another one from the yard.
OR... take you coil off the car and ask someone to test it for you.
YOU ARE ON THE DOWN HILL!! Keep at it!

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

The ground strap should go to the back of the passenger side head. If you want to "cheat", you can run a ground strap between the ground terminal on the engine block (from the battery cable) to the car's frame. The cable I'm talking about goes to the bottom front passenger side of the engine. Just go from there to the chassis.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

ok, how sensitive are those coils? if they are every sensitive i think that might be it, b/c i can recall one time when it fell and hit the floor,,,i fell b/c i switched out my exhaust manifolds...didn't know at the time it didn't matter, but i'm going to head to the junk yard tomorrow,and see what i can come up with, and on the ground wire, thanks for the "cheat" but i'm really sure how i have it hooked up will do just fine...thanks

wicked

 

well here is an update..i replaced the coil, i checked all fuses, and i have traced every wire possible on the block, still have no spark, i even think i have the timing set almost perfect.... my friend told me about a thing you can buy that you stick in the connectors that will tell you if they have power or not, i think i'm going to try that before i haul this thing to the local mechanic...if anyone has any ideas...all will be considered, and tried....thanks

wicked

 

.

[This message has been edited by KED85 (edited May 07, 2001).]

 

ONLY thing I can suggest is try a KNOWN working coil.
Then start going backwards.
You may have chopped a wire & that's causing your problem.
A friend had a problem with his water temp gauge.
Replaced sensor. Tried alot.
It was a bad wire, stretched, during the 2.8- 3.4 switch

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

Are you getting the serv. engine soon light when you have the key to "on" (not "off" or "crank")? Maybe your comptuer's not getting power?

The wires could be bad at the distributor... there's two; a four-pin that goes to the comptuer, and a two-pin going to the spark coil. Tonight, for a "study break", I'll see if I can figure out a voltage check for you to do on the 4-pin connector. I'll also grab you the check for the coil wiring- oh, wait, I have that already! Pull off the gray connector from the coil, and hook a voltmeter between the pink/black wire and ground. Have someone flip the key to "on" (before "crank"), and you should get +12 volts. That pink/black wire comes from the ignition switch, and supplies the coil (and the coil's other 3 wires) with power.

I had a backfire once... turned out the supply wire for the computer was intermittant. When you turn the car off, how long does the fuel pump stay "on" for? The fuel pump has a backup switch to it that runs off of oil pressure. If the oil pressure's high enough, the pump can run off the oil pressure switch. If you're cranking & cranking, you could be building up enough oil pressure to force the pump on. When you turn the car off, that oil pressure will be high for a little bit- and could keep the pump on. Of course if the pump runs for 2 minutes after you turn the car off, that's not right...




------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

ok.....i'm going to test that connector tomorrow, but yes my SES light does come on, and all of my heater/ ac works properly. i know earlier in someones suggestion, they put the ground wire should be on the pass side, i have mine on the drivers side head...i'm using that copper braided wire as the ground, i didn't think it mattered what side it was on...or does it?

wicked

 

Dammit, I knew there was something I had to come on the internet for last night! I'll get you that 4-pin connector info when I go home today... I'm going home early to study.. got one more final left. (Found out my final grade in Discrete II was a B, yay!)

I don't think the location of the ground matters. From what I remember, the only ground on the back of the passenger side head was the ground strap. I -think- the ECM grounds go to the driver's side head... there's three black ground wires (two wires share a screw, the third has it's own screw.. grand total of two screws & three grounds) going to the back of the driver's side head. One holds all the ECM sensor ground wires (like Mass Air Flow sensor, fuel pump relay, etc), and I can't remember what the other two are. Anyway, all this means that if you put the ground on the driver's side head, then the ground is closer to the ECM stuff, which is fine.

The ground straps really just bring the ground "out of" the engine (from the neg battery cable) and share it with the rest of the car. Not enough ground trickles through the motor mounts to keep the car happy, so that's why there's a ground strap.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

Okay wicked, here's the short version of the diagnostic chart for the ignition system. You need a voltmeter & test light for this, it's not too bad. Let me know where you find a problem, and I'll tell you what the book says to do- that'll save me some typing!

1. Disconnect 4-terminal distributor connector, check for spark. If spark occurs with this EST connector unhooked, then that means the pick-up coil output is too low for EST operation.

2. Check for spark at coil while cranking. If you get spark, it's a cap/rotor problem. (I think Karl covered this already!)

3. Disconnect 2-term distributor connector. Put the ignition on, with engine stopped. Check volts at "+" and "C" terminals on the wiring harness- both should be above 10 volts. Not? Let me know.

4. Ignition off. Reconnect 2-pin distributor connectcor. Ignition on. Check for volts at tach terminal. This is the black/white wire in the gray connector on the coil. The book says that the tach terminal is "taped to the harness behind the driver's side head"- I didn't know that. So you could search that wiring harness behind the driver's head for the connector, OR you could pierce the insulation on the black/white wire and make your hookup there. DAMN I didn't write down the volts it should be... I'll guess "at least 10". Nope? Let me know.

5. Connect test light between tach terminal and ground. Crank engine, watch light. Light should flash. If it flashes, replace the ignition coil (Karl!!) and recheck spark. Still no spark? Re-install original coil, and replace the distributor module.

The chart kept going... let me know if "all is well" or if you found a problem somewhere. Good luck! Hey you never took the distributor apart, did you?


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

wow....thanks a bunch tomp, i'm going to try to get to all of these today, i'll keep you posted on what i find...but what i have found so far is, i have power coming out of the white connector on the ignition coil,(it actually sparked at my dad when it touched some metal) i do'nt have power coming from the black one,,,but isn't that the "out" of the circuit, so it shouldn't have power right? The same thing happed w/ my ignition modual on my distributor, the two pronged connector has power, but not the bigger one. ALSO i was talking to my friend, and he said i could be one tooth off, on the timing, making the exhaust open right now, and it is sparking, but its not combusting? i guess he could be right, but wouldn't it atleast spark when i have the first plug out? owell not giving up...

wicked

 

EVEN IF yo are off a tooth at the dist.
IF YOUR COIL IS COOPERATIVE, yo will still have spark.
You are not have spark, from:
The coil to the distributor cap?
Or from the distributor cap to the wires?
IF NO SPARK from coil to distributor, you have isolated the problem between the coil, grounds for coil system.
Try to get a known working coil for a test.
Tom definetly has the skinny on the testing sequence.
IF ALL YOUR WIRES ARE PROPER, you should be able to figure out where the weak link is.

I believe it will be the coil.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

i'm trying the coil thing today..

wicked

[This message has been edited by wicked 88 cam (edited May 10, 2001).]

 

Yeah, the black connector on the coil is "out power". The white connector gives the coil (and the black connector) power "in". The black coil connector goes to the 2-pin connector on the distributor module.

I thought the distributor's 4 pin connector got some power, too, though. I'll check on that tonight.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

ok also can you check on how to test the ignition modual? i've tried everything you have suggested so far, and eveything seems to be ok, BUT like if i put a spark plug in the coil wire (on going to dis cap) i get nothing out of it.....BUT i still have power going to all of the connectors(two pronged on dis. and grey connector on coil.....thanx

wicked

 

Did you rebuild the distributor while you were swapping engines?
Modular is not exactly cheap. About $40-ish.
I am not sure about the coil, plug trick.
Can you borrow a modular?

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

no, actually we didn't touch the distributor, we just took it out,then installed it so that would be out of the way, BTW i have this blue colored build up around the where the wires from the distributor connect to the ignition modular, i don't know if thats a big deal, but owell, and no unfortunily i don't have another modular i could us ( owell....

wicked

 

Can you borrow another distributor to test to see if yours is good/bad?
You MAY need to do this.
OR find out how much a mechanic will charge for your needs.
MAYBE you should have one make a house call.
Offer him about $20 to visit.
It may be something really simple.
BUT... you should rebuild the distributor.
A snappy ignition really makes this engine swap shine!!

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

WOOHOO!! Ok! for some reason i now have spark...all I did was take off my ignition moduale, and had it tested, and it tested ok. Then i put it back on....fiddled with the wires from the dist. Then i turned the key, and it sparked!!.....i don't have a clue why, but i'm happy ) BUT now all i get is backfire, SO....i think i'm down to just timing WOOHOO! ) )

 

You live in the Indy area? Cool, so do I. Once you get this going, I'd love to see what it can do. Good luck!

Chris

 

That's great, Wicked! Maybe you have a "funny" wire back there on the module. When you get the 3.4 running, reach back there safely and wiggle the wires going to the module.. then you'll know. Hey did you put new heat-sink silicone grease on the module before you put it back in? The module will torch itself pretty fast if you don't... I used the stuff Radio Shack sells, I think it was $3 for a little tube.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

Back fire is all the fuel in there.
Take Tom's suggestion about that "stuff"!
NOW, start all over again.
TDC, reset distributor and tell us you have success!!
Best thoughts your way!!
KEEP AT IT!!!

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

hey...thanks tomp for the advice about that stuff...i havn't put it on yet, but i will once i get it going....i haven't had much time to tinker with the timing yet, but hopefully, some time this week i can squeeze it in my schduale....thanks i'll keep you all posted....and chris...i'll give you an e-mail once i get it going...thanx

wicked