$59 works great even without boost and the 3 BAR MAP sensor.

I currently run 10 PSIG, simply because I don't seem to be able to get my boost control to go beyond that, even though I know I've had it up to 15 PSIG previously.

 

Ok I just need to make sure i can tune this with a new bin, just when i understood the $88 mask...i go to a different one. Looks like alot of flustration and reading ahead of me

 

... then just have funstick burn you a boost code for the $8D based on your specs, and as you make further changes down the road just go back into the code and adjust your fueling needs. I'm working on an $8D bin for my boosted 305 as I write this myself, almost wrapped up. The 59 code is an excellent code to work with, but is really not needed. If you have your heart set on the 59 code, but perhaps don't trust some of the bins out there, then just ask Eric Marshall (turbo tweak) to burn you a chip to get you started because he offers 58/59 chips now. Just give him your specs, and ask him nicely.

 

Honestly i know there are ppl out there that could tune my car in a few hours, and it will take me months. But when it comes down to $$ id rather just burn the chips a datalog myself since thats free...as long as i dont fry the motor! Dont forget i just spent 50 bucks on a 3 bar map, basically gotta use that $59

Streetleath...pm me about those injectors when ya get a chance!

 

'

and pm me about that intake and heater box too, befor ei have to hand the guy down at the junkyard 65$ for a crappy s10 box

 

That is why I encouraged you to go the EBL P4 route from the beginning...

... lmfao, I sent BOTH of you guys a PM already, what the heck is going on here!

Eddi, I bought eight of those LC2 injectors for $50 from an old Grand National buddy of mine, they ohm great, and have low miles. You can have six of them for $25 bucks, sound good?

Dave, I have had this stuff sitting on the table for a freaking week already and my wife is ready to kill me. What do you wanna give me for this stuff...

 

I never got the pm... But ya that sounds sweet. Ill take em. Ill try to pm you......

 

i never got the pm either just tell me how much u want so i can paypal u some dam money

edit let me know i just got a call from work one of the dams water pipes froze and broke so i get to go deal with that for a while,bbl

 

Cut the crap man, just tell me what you wanna give me for them I'll calculate shipping when I weigh this stuff as there is a UPS store down the street...

 

lol u asked for it 50 bucks + shipping just cause i know what ya paid for both

lol wasnt it like 10 bucks for the heater box and 20 for the intake

 

I'm lucky I can remember my name right now bro, let alone what I said a few months ago.

That's sounds cool, lemme get a shipping quote for ya...

Edit: FYI, Warren charged me $40 for that intake, not $20 lmao...!!!!

 

sounds good let me know the total anyways off to work to go fix broken water pipes ill be back later tongiht

 

oh yeah almost forgot u prolly need my zip 84713

 

nothin better then spending more cash!!

I cant believe i cant sell a dual snorkle intake set up.... Ive had that stuff on the classifieds and no bites... I need that cash for turbo stuff

 

Got the blow off valve today and hopefully the 3 bar map gets here tommorow. Any one know if I should set that blow off valve to soft or hard for an automatic car?? Or how do i determine what the spring pres/rate should be? Its a cheeper BOV but its gotta work for now.

I'd like to start getting the tuning a little better set up but its kindof a dead zone over at code59 website, good info but ive got questions....as always....

Like whats the injector consistant on that $59 mask.... F28??? anyone know?? Also is there a way to use a normal NB o2 sensor on this code so that i can see if i set it up right before i actually have the turbo ready to go?? Just to make sure the ecm reads the bin correct...


Anyways i got tommorow off, and plan to weld up the both hot side turbo flanges, finish putting on the exhaust to turbo section on for good/ then getting the down pipe going, only have the materials to make the 90* bend down and weld on the flange but that should keep me busy for a little bit till i can measure off how much pipe ill need to run it the rest of the way back, hopefully in one straight shot.

Then its charge pipe time.. that should be fun

 

Yes, the NBO2 will work with $59, you don't need to change anything to use the NBO2 sensor. The WBO2 input is separate and requires you to add the wire.

 

Oh ok, i was just looking at all the flags in the mask and sorta got lost. Thank you!!

 

How is everyone running there wastegates???? Piping wise....

 

Eh?

You mean when using an external wastegate?

I'm using an internal, so there's no consideration for routing.

 

Yea external, how far do i route the piping outlet after the wastgate. Also is it a bad thing to route it to the atmosphere twards the ground(screamer pipe!! )

And another thing...who knows how you can know how many CFM your car makes in its n/a form compared to what a turbo says it will flow at its efficenty rate. Such as if my car uses 250cfm @ 5k rpms at what ever VE it is flowing and the a turbo would flow 400CFM.

How would I know what my car flows??? In the N/A form?? Is there a calculator for that?? How would i know my VE for the equation??

Ive seen that 100Hp = 150 cfm? Is that right? That means mine flows about 230ish CFM like it is now.

Then i saw 2.2cfm is 1 hp. That cant be right..say my car has 155Hp. That means its flows 342 Cfm? thats more then i though!

 

I hate screamer pipes...

Different people have different theories about how far away from the turbine outlet the wastegate exhaust can be plumbed back in. For most applications you'll never see a difference between being plumbed in directly after the turbine outlet or 8 feet down the exhaust system.

The biggest thing I try to do when using an external, is to create a smooth transition into the exhaust system. Where that merge is, is usually determined by how everything physically fits in the car.

Why do you need to know what your engine flows for CFM?

 

hes prolly trying to calculate for compressor maps maybe.

 

ok i really didnt wana do that screamer piping, i was just a little curious. Thanks though!

I was just reading up on turbo sizing and such and trying to learn a little about cfm, lbs of air and how much of it is needed.

 

u can dump the wastegate to atmosphere its really not that loud, the turbo winding up is louder then the wastegate

 

How is essentially open exhaust quieter than a turbo spooling?

EVERY car I had driven, rode in or had drive past me with a screamer pipe/open to atmosphere wastegate dump has been loud as F&^(, and sound terrible.

 

dont ask me i dont know , but its quiet on my 3.1 and even on pilsburys 3.4 u cant hear it at all and he has a full ex system on his car

hell u cant even hear my wastegate in any of my videos, dont think u can in pilsburys either

 

The reason i thought of the open wastegate dump is because its the easiest route.The less welding i have to make the less possible leaks and such, also less flow problems.
I've watched those vids of your original turbo and pills too, both of them had open wastegate dumps>?? Because i couldnt really hear any exhaust. Being that the turbo is not supper big, i wouldnt think it would open anyways untill at WOT.(once i can turn the boost up to like 8-10psi)

 

Remember what I told you, 15 pounds of boost doubles the amount of air after 0" of vacuum is realized. Whatever your engine is calling for fuel now at wide open throttle, double it at 15 pounds of boost, then work your way (finesse it) downward. You need to rescale your MAP if your going to run the $8D w/3-BAR. If your running the $59 mask it will make life much more easier. What did Eric Marshall from Turbo Tweak say, did you ask him yet...?

 

Yea I still am going the $59 route. I asked erick but he said that he isnt involved with the $59 code at all. Ive been learning a little bit though, id really like to get a bin together that i can burn and see if it will fire up my car, even without the turbo, just to make sure that all my sensors are reading right.

 

He should already know that $59 is an enhanced version of $58, and he is releasing chips based on his version of 3-BAR for the $58. I will talk to him and tell him that you need a chip for the $58 but w/3-BAR MAP. Again, that is what $59 already is, but Eric is releasing his own version of that code which is why he said he is not familiar with Code 59...

 

Ahh i see.. Thanks man!! whats up with the injec.

 

After i welded up my down pipe flange to a 90* bend, i lowered my car down and looked at the clearence of piping, when you look at the car on the ground, the pipeing is about as low as the air dam, if not 1/2'' lower.... is that too low, it worries me that that could be a issue under hard breaking.

Dave if you read this, where was your piping at compared to the air dam???

I think I may have to go back in to my y piping and get it closer to the k member since its a 1 inch away from it at one point. So with the piping that means its 3 1/2 inches off the k member. That gonna sux to have to fix that!

 

Sending you my paypal in a few, but you only gave me your zip code, I need the full address otherwise it'll just sit in the UPS store lol New Jersey got bombarded with snow last night, and we've been digging ourselves out ever since the early morning. You can pay me the day it literally gets shipped if you'd like, I'll send them out first thing Monday morning...

By the way, did you ever come across a stock $8F binary code yet...?

 

No i never got the stock 8F bins yet.

We got like 5 inches of snow too, fun stuff

Ill pm you now with the full address

 

$59 is much more thqn just a 3 BAR patched $58.

I believe we have some $8F BINs uploaded at Gearhead-EFI site, if not I know I have some on my PC that I can upload.

 

... now it is.

Scroll down to $8F...

http://www.tunerpro.net/downloadBinDefs.htm

 

I see them, was the $8F on those grand prixs? Will a 3 bar map work on those... I didnt think they did?

 

Trust me, don't jump to a 3-BAR MAP just yet, as 15-psi is more than a handful to a brand new tuner. I would honestly try downloading the information from the $8F binary into your '7730, just to get familiar with boost. All Grand National's, TTA's, and Syclone/Typhoon's came from the factory set at 15-psi, and it would be in your best interest to first get familiar with these codes if you plan on doing your own chip burning. You can always upgrade to a 3-BAR MAP later on down the road, whether $59, or rescaling the $8F, but at least you will be very familiar with how boost code (boost multiplier) works....

 

I already have a 3 bar map!

 

Ok I just re-did all the f-ing piping up to the turbo, because i didnt like the clearence at all.. this piping is a *^*( to get right. So here is a new pic, thats just tac welded. An i am able to jack the car sky high with jack stands and put the whole assembly in at one time. So does this piping look better???

Also this pipe had a bung for a 02 sensor,could i put the nb 02 sensor in there its about a foot after the pipe branches off the y pipe...

 

this bung is in sorta a crappy spot.. i can always just cap off the hole.

 

That is okay, hold onto it, you can always use it in the future. Head on over to Turbo Buick as members there are literally giving their stock 2-BAR MAP sensors away lol...

 

Why are you suggesting to not use the 3 BAR MAP?

Whether he starts with $8F (Which I wouldn't) or $59, the basic tuning idea is the same. He already has the 3 BAR MAP sensor, and would have to then buy a 2 BAR MAP sensor to use $58, or $8F, which is an un-needed, and time wasting expense.

Just because he will have a 3 BAR MAP sensor hooked up, doesn't mean that he will automatically be running large amounts of boost pressure. :facepalm:

TGPs, ran 9.5 PSIG from the factory, IIRC the TR/GN was set to 10 to 14 PSIG, depending on the year and the Sy/Tys were around the 12 PSIG mark as well. The MAP sensor does not dictate what amount of boost will be used, it only reads how much pressure is in the intake manifold.

FWIW, I was running 4 PSIG for a couple months when I first installed my turbo and started with $59, it ran just fine.

Yes, you can install the NBO2 sensor in that bung. Don't install the WBO2 there though, it needs to be in the exhaust post turbine housing.

 

There is really no reason to run 20+ pounds of boost on a cast engine, he will blow it up and I don't want to see him do that, especially without knowing the do's and don'ts regarding detonation as this is his first turbo build. If he was fully forged, I'd say go 3-BAR all the way because then he can afford to get away with a little knock, but until then, 15-psi should really be his limit, especially as a new tuner. Yes, he can run a 3-BAR and set boost at 15-psi, but he is already having trouble figuring out his fueling when it has already been done with the 2-BAR...

 

Again, the MAP sensor only READS how much pressure is in the intake manifold, it does not dictate how much pressure is in there. :facepalm:

$59 works great, using the 3 BAR MAP sensor, and no boost, if one were so inclined.

 

I dont plan on bosting over 15psi, I just got that map sensor because I wanted to only have to buy one map sensor and not a 2 bar, then in a few years when I know what im doing, buying a 3Bar.

Why not just get the 3 bar and know that that will handle anything i decide to throw it in the future. But once again, Im not bosting it 15-20psi, crap Ill be happy 8psi if the car runs good.

Im not totally lost in the $59 bins, there is just so many more values on there that I havent seen on the $88. Its over whelming. Im getting the F28, F1, F29x, F29, F77x tables down, I think.

I ran out of gas on the mig so no more welding till monday when i can get some more, welds look like complete crap if i dont have that gas. I still cant believe that I had to redue the whole exhast charge piping...Well I know Im happy with the clearence now though.

 

That is completely irrelevant, and has nothing to do with what I said. I'm the one that should be face palming here lol. We all know what a MAP sensor "does", he needs to correct his fueling with the $59 code which he is clearly having trouble with doing. If you want to put together something for him based on his specs then go right ahead. The $58/$8F mask have already been done by GM, with one for an engine that is slightly larger than his, and both cover him up until 15-psi, and are the perfect base for him to at least get his feet wet and get started. He would just need to trim the fuel down and work the SA a little with the $58. If your going to try and argue your point based on a mask that you happen to utilize, why not encourage him the right way, and lean him towards the EBL system which I suggested from the getgo. He needs this simplified for him...

 

Bingo! Then go with the $58 or $8F to start with...

 

OMG, really?

Just because YOU happen to like the EBL, doesn't mean it's the "right way" or even the "best way," it's just a "different way" of getting something done. I am encouraging him to get this set-up the right way, for him, and not waste time or money on things he doesn't need to.

You obviously have not used $59, or you would know it would be no harder to use, than a $58 BIN. There are starter bins available that are based on the stock $58 BINs, as far as basic settings are concerned, obviously, there are some changes that are $59 specific, but that won't effect the basic set-up.

I believe he is having less trouble, than you think, he seems to just be second guessing himself, or thinking too hard about it, which just about all of us did when we first started tuning, and especially when we switched between different code, because of an aspiration change, or other reason.

I wouldn't limit myself to using a $58 or $8F bin, simply because I didn't plan to have a higher boost setting that 15 PSIG. Have you looked at the VE and spark tables in $59? Just in the vacuum section there are more tunable cells than the $58 code that it is based on has.

FWIW, I have yet to go beyond 15 PSIG of boost with my Datsun running $59, and it works great, I also have about 4 extra 2 BAR MAP sensors, so I could very easily change to $58 or $8F, if I wanted to, but I would be wasting time, for absolutely no gain.

I really don't understand why you're so scared of him using a 3 BAR MAP sensor, with a code that is specifically enhanced to use it.

 

Holy crap man, I didnt mean to start up a mess like this. I just was a little foggy on what is what, honestly I dont think It would matter which new mask I was running, Id still be wery about tuning my car, because untill I actually have all the mechanical pieces together and running, I cant get my feet wet with this new mask.

I was lost as can be on the $88 mask till I actually got my hands on the moates stuff and started burning off chips, changine Ve, Sa tables. I got the hang of that and im sure once i can see what I am actually tuning, Ill be ok. I know how to tune the SA tables and spark tables great on the other mask, and looking for spark knock, detination...exc

The only reason I put this eprom stuff on this page is because alot of ppl dont tune there V6 camaros and I though I'd get more support on here. Although code59 does have some good info.