Ill be on later to give updates, but i think im leaking boost somwhere? BOV or a bad coupling... i need to look as wastegate didnt open when at WOT only made 6psi of boost.... WTF!

 

u got what an 7-8 psi wastegate i dont rember.

if u hook up ur wastegate to the back of the manifold ur boost should go up about 1-2 psi.that small intercooler is going to have about 1-2 psi drop across it. my volvo intercoller did the same thing

if i hooked the wastegate to the compressor outlet i saw 5 psi , on the back of the manifold i saw 7. move the wastegate line if boost goes up thats all it is, if it stays the same then u have a boost leak.


also the ratings on the wastegates arent always accurate the auction could have been for a 8psi spring but it could have very well been a 5 psi unit

 

I think i found my leak, on the first WOT try it made 6psi then went down to 4 then never that again, after looking i saw that a coupler blew, it was the one that i used that was for PVC since the real coupler didnt get here yet. Ill have it by tommorow. But watch this vid, car suxs for acceleration for having a turbo on it, im positive thats the problem! I made 7.8psi before! So thats why I was so mad that i could barly manage 4psi this afternoon....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dDNj2KPcQ

current idle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urcTT32g8Y4

oh yea it said its a 8psi WG

 

yeaha coupler blown off will do that lol be carefull not to overspeed the turbo like that .normally when they blow off the pop off completly and u wont be able to make any boost

since ur using a pvc coupler a decent trick is to put a hoseclamp in the middle of the coupler so it cant swell up in the middle this will help it stop poping off

put the coupler back on and do it again.

if u want a tiny bit more boost out of it move the wategate line to were u have the bov line as well doing that should get u another 1psi of boost into the intake

 

took u about 6.5 maybe a lil less to go 0-60 with that massive boost leak

 

i can still hear the idle hunting a bit. did you ever add more adv/ret to the error tables? if not try it, i think it will do the trick

 

Im just a newbe at the boost and though the couplers were ok, and they sure wernt, all i could think is that the BOV is leaking by, but its sure not....

And also that Wastegate has never opened as of yet. Never got to make that much boost. The highest was 7.81psi when footbreaking last weekend, and that didnt open it. So its fine im sure.
When i first floored it I was more worried about the Wastegate NOT opening at 8psi and making too much boost, not the other way arround when i only made 3-4 lbs of boost.. Opps should have checked that crappy coupler i used after the bov adapter..


Ok dave ill get on the boost again soon, hopefully i get a nice weekend to play. That silicon coupler will be here tommorow so im not gonna mess with that crappy coupling anymore. I dont wana keep beating on the turbo with a possible leak.

I was like...WOW im only getting this turbo to make 4psi! its suppose to make 8psi instantly with WOT at high rpms.LOL That was a bad bad leak.

The car did feel faster but i was mad that i finally had the guts to just floor it and...I only got 4psi and not that much more power? Thats like what mabey another 25Hp considering the conservitive tuning and added weight..

Yes it does hunt a little when the engine temp gets closer to 180* anything lower, like 150 or so it doesnt hunt.... I still need to work on those tables alot to get it where i want it, but the hunt isnt bad and innoying... at least not yet. But i DID not try to adv/ret the tables today as i only had about a hour of free time to tune and really wanted to get the BOV working right and making sure i didnt have any problems in the charge pipe. Since i finally floored it today, I obvously found a flaw in my charge piping but it will be fixed before i start it again.

Ill get this down pat though this weekend when i have more time to tune.

 

Ok dave on the WG boost line. Is that becasue of the loss of pressure through the charge pipe and IC??>

If anyone wants to look here is the Excell datalog of some info from when i blew that coupler. See how it made 6psi and no higher then when i floored it again, it only made 3 or 4 psi.. Also there was a hint of knock 1* that i did tune for after that but never got the chance to see if it was better... POS coupler.. ruined my day

 

yes th epresure at the turbo outlet will be just a lil higher then the presure at the intake manifold

the wastegate is opening a 8 psi spring will start to crack open around 4-5 psi

if ti wasnt opening u would see much much more boost

 

I mean mabey it is opening but id though Id hear it when at WOT.

But still the coupler is shot. Did you check that excell file out??

One time at WOT I made 6.xx psi then the next only 3 psi then the net 6.xxpsi. I think the vacume was pulling back in the coupler. The coulper didnt blow off it literly had blown(had a cut in it that i could squeeze my finger in) Opps that second run was at less throttle.....30 or so %

Honestly at 6psi, i thought it would be faster???

 

dont forget u have limited timming.

look at my new 3.1 when i first took it out i ran 15.0 didnt make any boost changes just tunned it and went out and ran a 14.0

same thing a few weeks later no boost changes just tuned the ve tables a bit and went 13.4 next pass leaned it out and tuned a lil more and went 13.008

tuned it some more and ran into the 12's all without changing boost


u just need to keep at it . for ***** and giggles go put that g-tech in the car again when u get the coupler fixed and go do a run im sure the results will surprise u

 

opps almost forgot i dont have excell on my laptop so i cant open the datalogs

 

nm i can open it with megatune log viewer looking at it now

 

u shoudl download megalog viewer it makes it very nice to look at the data logs

 

he doesnt need a Gtech, the SLC has built in accelerometers

 

TP also has the monitors as well LOL

 

Yea the SLC does have a accelerometer, but i havent got to play with that yet. I need to though. Im just tuning for that 11.5 or so AFR and no knock, thats probly why the preformance is sluggish right now.

I can honestly feel it pull harder sometime when I made those 6psi pulls, it would pull a little bit then that pull i felt would go away, but in a few of those cells I was running too much fuel 10.8arf in.

I might just use the lil gtech i have since its a snap to use. Its not accutate to real times, but will definitly give me a accurate idea if im picking u speed or not.

48 and dry today, hope that coupler comes as planed so i can take it for a drive.

 

either way its up to you. the built in accelerometer in the SLC is calibrated the same way as the Gtech. and you can use the datalog feature to record your runs, then just hook up the lappy to it and watch it in Winlog.

what size coupler? if the one you ordered doesnt show up you can get a "lowflex" coupler for temporary use. it has the steel band around it to reinforce it, used those alot in my roto rooter days lol. also used those on my turbo sunbird and buick without any problems.

 

Ive never used winlog before, thats why i never got into useing that program yet for the SLC kit. I will use it but for now im just getting the hang of the $59 and reading its values on TP and such. I love tunerpro and its simplicity so thats what im sticking with for now. Ill get into winlog with the SLC in a little bit.

The dumb coupler didnt come today...its in cleveland I live 1 1/2 hours from there, but im got another better coupler that should work for now. Ill band it in the middle also to make sure it doesnt wana flex. If i get it working ok.. Ill go see how it runs.

 

Would this air filter be sufficent for this turbo??? and would a 90* elbow like this hold up or should I be looking for something more stable. I dont have much room to work with but a 90* like this would run the air filter up to where the headlights are.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SILICONE-HOS...sories&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-3-...sories&vxp=mtr

 

Dave what did you tune on the M.S. to get that much of a gain from tuning??? Just woundering what ill need to look at the more I get into WOT this spring.

 

I once went from 134mph to 137mph with just timing and mild air fuel change on same boost It can make a big difference

 

thats the filter i used to run for the street, it will be fine for street use but at the track i would take it off.

the 90 will also work

i just kept tunning my afr and my timing curve my first time out the motor was just pig rich the car would smoke black going down the track, as i got my tune better and better the turbine wheel went from being black with carbon to a tanish/white

 

Ok let the tuning begin. I got 5 hrs, a 45* sunny day and a turboed car to tune!

 

I know how you feel, it's fairly dry here, seriously considering my Z out after work.

 

I know my timing tables are conservitive but ill get boost to build up to 7psi or so and in just one single cell on TP datalogg ill see like 3* of retard?? But it is only in one celll?? Its ticking me off becasue I keep taking out timing and it doesnt help..could this be becasue of a something rattling sending a false knock?? Im scared to keep going at it making knock like that... Cars alot faster though today since i got that coupler set up, pulling a constant 7.5 psi when i throttle into it. Afrs are all from 11-11.8 in all boost cells and knock is good except those innoying areas. Ill be laying into it then i let off immmediatly when i see knock.

 

Pull some fuel in those areas instead of SA, although you're not overly rich, being rich can cause what looks like knock.

 

Your right I pulled a little fuel and the knock is gone!!

 

I had a good day at tuning, and saw what the potential of that turbo is gonna bring as i was amazed how fast that thing is at 7+ psi of boost.

The highest pull was 90% throttle and 9.81 psi, AFR from 11.0-12.7(the AFR's are throughout every boost pull) and one spot had .85* of knock for a split second. Im aiming at absolutly no knock at all!!

Just to know...If I get say...1* of knock for a second and let off the throttle will it hurt my car?

I hade to use a boost controler i had and it is just inline with the wastgate vac line that runs to the turbo outlet. I dont like it and will either have to get the springs or a better controler becasue im making 5.5psi without the controler hooked up and now I got it tuned into about 9.5psi, it peaks at 9.9psi then goes to 9.5psi and holds. 5.5PSI is ok for driving but im aiming at 14second passes in the 1/4 mile come spring so I need to make more then 5.5...

I got a smile from ear to ear, that power in 2nd gear at about 3k+ rpms feels like a rocket and im sure its really not as fast as it can be!!! 2nd gear doesnt take 10 seconds to get through like it did in its N/A form.

I did use the g-tech when it was making that 5.5PSI, the ET was bad but thats because i couldnt just floor it. My ending speed was 93.9 MPH and before it was like 87.7mph after the cam and heads(N/A) in the fall of last year, so with a good launch im sure it would be a little more of a gain. And im really sure with 3-4 more PSI the difference would be alot more. As it seems to be ALOT faster when I made 8+PSI compared to 5.5psi. Huge difference!!!

The idle is good 14.0AFR no hunt really at all! And crusing is about 15-15.5 AFR(good MPG)

Heres a video...laugh at my comentary!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA7Af...ature=youtu.be

One last question though, as I look at the data logg where im getting that little bit of knock, it is the lowest AFR but that is only like 11-11.5??? The cells(almost all of them) that have AFR's of 12-12.7 dont knock and never have. Is it ok to run AFR's that high if theres no knock??

BUT what do you guys think??? Am I on my way to a 14 sec pass???

 

...

... just wait til you hit 15+psi.

 

Wwwith a 94mph trap speed that would be high 13,s

 

Well the gtech does the last MPH, and trap speed is the average of the last 70feet. or something like that. Id think closer to 90mph would be the real trap from that pull.

Ill just be happy to get 14's forsure!!! And hope it doesnt take too much boost to make that. 9psi today felt like a rocket and that was only up to 60 or so MPH.

What i cant believe is the difference that is felt from pulls +6psi. It feels so much faster even though its only another 2 or 3 psi.

A pull that is 3psi compared to 5 psi isnt that much of a difference, but a pull at 6 compared then 8-9psi is a huge diffence that can be felt!!

I see why boost is addictive

 

I hope i dont need boost like that to hit 14's....

 

Remember though Mark, you have ported heads and cam, so 10-psi for you is a lot different than 10-psi for a bone stock 3.1 (your pressurizing more), as boost measures resistance, that's all that it does. I think your going to be very very surprised when you realize what your ET and trap speed are at 15-psi. Just be careful with your boost, because those injectors only support up to a certain amount of horsepower before they go static..

 

Yea those injectors are only good for what 270hp or so at 90% dc.

I just plan on making a few passes with the 8-10psi. I like that jolt its giving me at that boost. And I havent gotten to go faster then 60mph with that boost because these roads out here are bumpy at 60mph+. And i didnt wana drive 5 miles to a nice flat road to find out that my tune isnt right yet... And I know that car doesnt start to feel like a rocket till 2nd gear! Its a blast man!

 

u need to invest in a set of sticky tires for sure
a 26x9x15 dragslick or a 225 drag radial would be perfect, with a sticky tire u can footbrake and use the ebrake on the starting line so u can launch under boost, this will lower your et by about 3/4 of a second compared to just flooring it off the line with no boost

in my car 95mph was a 14.0 `103 was 13.5, 105mph was 13.008 and 116 was low 12's.

mph went up due to the lag when i swaped to the larger turbo, it took longer down track to make the boost but the car would accelerate harder down the second half of the track


witht he small ebay turbo the car would be faster the first 1/8 mile then nose over down track
typical gains from the 1/8th to the 1/4 mile with the small turbo would be 18-20mph

with the larger turbo i would see a gain of about 24-28mph from the 1/8th to the 1/4


whats the g-tech say for a 1/4 mile time on 9 psi

also the reason for being mor epower when going from 6-9 psi is ur are getting the turbo into its efficiancy range, ur biggest gains will prolly come in the 14-17 psi range on that 57 mm turbo

 

Yea I do need some slicks for sure. Ive been asking arround. Since I know alot friends that race the sportmen class(14.99-11.99 is the cut off time in that class up here) Im trying to find a set and some cheep light 15'' rims.

I never got to run the 9psi with the gtech although I WILL tommorow.
That makes sence that the turbo is being more effiecent up in the middle and higher psi range, becasue i really really feel a big difference!

I never got to go WOT with the 9-9.5psi because id see like 0.5* of knock here and there. Can I get a clear cut answer on how much knock is bad?? Like if im in the middle of a pull and make 0.8* of knock retard, as long as it doent go higher can I complete the pull/log so i can change it on tunerpro when i get back to the house?

 

Heres a ziped excel file from the last run on 10 psi. Only went up to 60mph, let me know if im on the right track??? Keep in mind that this run was after I was crusing it for a bit so the intake temps are higher. It was 50* out and i didnt go faster then 60mph

 

that lil bit of knock wont hurt u the ecm will pull the timing back till it goes away

if u have a pepboys around they usually have a lightwieght steel wheel for around 39 bucks each

if u go with a slick mount them without tubes

im in the middle of redoing my laptop since it crashed on me soon as i get windows reinstalled ill look at that datalog

 

Yea i mainly look at the knock retard since the knock count is hard to read. So if its retarding it i know ive got knock. Thats pretty cheep for the light steel wheel, theres a pep boys a few miles from here.

That log isnt too long but its what was happing when i made that video. So all the pulls basically mirrored that pull. AFR still needs a little work but its gettin better. I forgot to add the SA in that table so dont look at it for a min...ill attach a better one, the whole log is on this attatchment. Bad log but i needed one to base a better tune on.

I know why I had knock i think....Intake temps. Ill make sure when i boost higher psi (10 psi) that i have lower intake temps..It was because I was cruzing to see my afrs at a crusing speed. Or the AFR's are off, becaues look at my timing on those pulls... low low SA

 

Im looking at boost controlers and springs... Would you guys sugest getting a manual controler.. or a spring like this instead. That wastegate i have said its a 8psi one, but i never made more then about 5.5-6psi of boost. So should i look into 1bar spring(14.7psi) since im losing a good 2 psi from the turbo to the map sensor.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Authentic-Ti...item51938ca672

Id really rather get a controler since im not sure the amount of boost ill end up running and I dont wana have to tear the wastegate open all the time to change springs.

controler
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Voodoo-III-M...item3f13ab41a6
Or can someone recommend a good adjustable controler that will work well??

 

The knock counter is just an accumulative counter, it doesn't reset until it hits some very high number, so it is hard to use to see knock happening. The funny thing about that is that for a while I would get HUGE knock counts almost instantaneously when I turned the ignition off, it stopped after a while.

Using the knock retard you can almost inversely tell how much knock (as perceived by the knock sensor) you really have. Lower knock retard, means just a little bit of knock, higher numbers of retard, more aggressive knock is happening. FWIW, just after I got my 240Z running on $59, I for some reason missed that there was mechanical advance built into the dizzy, so on the nearly maiden trip to Zfest (A local Z car annual event), that was about an hour away, in which I got the car running the day before, I saw knock retard amounts of upto 18 degrees! Yes, eight teen degrees, never felt one hiccup, so the system works. Welding my dizzy locked out reduced that retard by about 10 degrees right away. lol

About the boost controller, why wouldn't you want to use the one built into $59? It's a simple PWM controlled solenoid. The actual boost control solenoid is the same as some EGR valve control solenoid. Just look for one that has 3 ports, one of which is open to air, usually has a little filter on it, and 2 wire connection.

Here is a decent picture of one:




There are others that will work, although I haven't tried it, if I run out of GM solenoids, I plan to try the DIYAutotune.com boost control solenoid, since it's said to work quicker than the GM valve, and requires less pulse width.

 

ill find u a boost controller as a rule of thumb a boost controller can get u double what ever the spring is rated for reliably, anything more then double and u could get boost spikes etc


also more then likley the wastegate u bought only has a 7 psi spring , springs are also have an percentage of error were say a 9 psi spring can be plus or minus 7% of its rating


a boost controller will work fione for u for now though, when u get the tune a lil better i will show u how to make a spacer for the wastegate spring that will decrease spoolup time and give u an additional 2-4 psi its a neat lil trick i use on my v6 car.

i just got windows reinstalled back on my laptop a few mins ago so after i download my video and sound drivers ill take a look at ur data log and get u a link to a decent boost controller

 

thats something he should eventually do but since hes new to tunning i think he should stick with a manual controller till he gets a lil more acustomed to the tunning software

besdies the manual controler will only cost him a few bucks


there is one thing i did like about a manual over ecm controled boost and thats the ability to adjust the boost without having to burn a new chip or reprogram the ecm . so if u pick up bad gas somonewere u can turn the boost down or if u want to turn it up its just a turn or 2 of a **** away

 

The problem with manual controllers is that you're not really sure how much boost it is set for without actually trying it, where as with the ECM controlled solenoid you will know withon 1 PSIG (accounting for variations in accuracies of components).

Also a bin switcher can be used, if hou ever get this fabled "bad gas." I havn't heard of anyone actually buying "bad gas."
There's also the knock sensor that was designed to help with that very situation.

 

Ok sixshooter can you link me a silenoid that would work?? And also explain what pin to use on the ECU as im seeing alot of places it could go and there is a ton or sileniods out there and I have no idea the difference. $$ is a tight on my end.

Also I went and drove for a good 10 miles. Great 14.7-15 afr at cruse but when id get into boost, the tcc lock up was locked alot! I changed the MPH in the bin for lock up or am I missing another flag/or table for tcc lock up.

 

Go to the wreckers and look at mid '80s to mid '90s GM cars and trucks for the EGR solenoid that looks like the solenoid I posted above. Grab it and the plug. The ECM pin is the same one that the '7749 uses, which I don't recall the pin off hand. The solenoid is simply wired on one side to 12V ignition, the other side to the ECM pin.

I can't help you on the TCC stuff, I run a manual tranny, sorry. I know there has been discussion on it at c59.org, so check there.

I was reminded of another reason to use the ECM controlled boost solenoid:

 

Any knock is bad on a boosted engine. Tune for no knock whenever in boost, no matter the level of boost. This is something that just needs to be understood, since if a little knock at low boost is OK, at what level is it no longer OK.

Only takes an instant to push out a head gasket.

Take your time and work methodically on the tune.

For a WG solenoid, here are the part numbers for the sy/ty parts:

Solenoid: GM# 1997152, AC-Delco #214-474
Connector pigtail: GM #12102747, AC Delco #PT374

And if you need check valves to keep boost out of other areas of the vacuum system:

GM #14047619, AC Delco is the same #.

RBob.

 

F2

 

might be a good idea to tighten up the TV cable as long as you are pedaling it. tranny sounds like its slipping too much