I do have the blow of valve vac line to the back of the manifold. The one on the turbo goes to the wastegate. Should i adjust it hard or soft, The BOV??

 

Is it really?? Then i guess that saves me the trouble, rob did say that hes heard its normal to run 14AFR at idle on $59 with a mild cam. Any higher and it hunts...

 

set it to soft for now as boost goes up u will have to put it to hard.

u want to adjust it so it goes off easy when u lift but dosent leak under boost.

soft vs hard = preload on the valve, the harder u set it the more force that is holding the bov shut

 

Make perfect sence. Thank you!! Ill adjust it later as I may play with the idle tables some more.

I did notice that when it started to boost the afr's would be really low at some points....like 10.4. Not that im tuning for that now, but what is the normal AFR's(if there is one) for boost?? That 6psi was at 3200rpms..is that bad lag???

 

Boost will build differently once you start driving compared to foot braking.

If that's all you're getting up to for peak AFR, you're off to a better start than I was, I was constantly over 10:1, and had to trim a lot of fuel back. lol

 

that thing spools up fast its going to be a blast to drive .

start with afrs in the 11.5-1 range , i usually tune for 12.5-1 under boost

but start in the low to mid 11's and work ur way up from there slowly keeping an eye out for kr

 

There are two settings to enable quasi-async, one of which is set to max, the other is not. If you really want you can set that one to max as well.

 

If i do that will it affect anything?

I am going to go and adjust the BOV, set that other value to the max and call it a night. Its been a long day.

Oh yea and the crazy thing is after i did that playing in the garage with getting the turbo to spool up.. it actually idled better and a afr of 13.7 but if it runs smooth and such isnt that ok for now?

 

Ok I just tried that and no luck. So im guessing this car is just gonna like 12-13 afrs..... It seems to like it

But i adjusted the BOV all the way out and is it working?? Is that sound the comp surging or the BOV. On my datalog, the boost is gone as soon as I let off the throttle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeuXQBex2OU

I freaked out when i saw the smoke from the engine area...so dont mind the camera action....It ended up being all the tire smoke as I didnt realize i made that muck smoke in a few seconds.. Love the posi though!

Im not doing this anymore in the garage as it spins way too easy and yea its to much fun. I know its not the best thing to be doing but the AFR's are def. in check at the moment.

I didnt relize I gave it that much gass but heres what it did with no spark knock at all. And I know these numbers dont mean crap since it just a burn out in the garage but its nice to see the tables arnt completly trashed.... I need to part throttle tune this thing...I need nice weather!!
10.4AFR @ 4PSI
11.0AFR @ 5PSI
11.4AFR @ 6PSI
11.6AFR @ 7PSI
11.7AFR @ 7.5 PSI This specific boost was at 3850 Rpms on the datalogg.

 

the shshhh shhh shhh shhh shhh sound is compressor surge its to hard to hear if the bov is opening int he video easiest way to tell would be to crab somone and hold a piece of paper infront of the bov and spool up the turbo then jump off the gas and see if it moves .

im not sure what kinda sound that style bov makes but u should atleast hear a pssshhhhhhtttttt when it does open up.

i wouldnt worry about it till ur driving it though the bov will open much easier under normal driving the foot braking it to spool the turbo, my turbo will surge at the end of a foot brake or burnout even though the bov is opening

afrs are pretty close for a starting point a lil more messing with it in the garage and u should be able to do some driving in it , also the first time u drive it watch the boost gauge carefully sometimes they might advertise it as an 7-8psi wastegate but they will send u one with a 15 psi spring .

i usually hook all mine up to a compressor with a air regulator and slowly turn up the air pressure so i can see what it takes to get the gate to start to open

 

also if u want to spool the turbo without doing a burnout pull up the ebrake tight while ur standing on the brakes and gas this should lock up the back tires solid.

when im at the track once im staged i do this to spool the turbo up when its time to louanch my left foot comes off the brake and i use my right hand to drop the ebrake at the same time.

before my car needed new rear brake shoes i could go wot and the car would not move

 

Ok dave thanks again for the advice.. Does that sound bring back memories of the original turbo V6? Amazes me the power i felt just doing that burn out. I see why its gonna be addictive!

Ill make sure to watch the boost carfully when i do get to drive it, as I dont have a air regulator to shoot into the wastgate port.

 

Today is my last free day to play with the car, so i figured id wash it so I had to move it to the other garage, since i was moving it i though why not drive it down to the end of the road and back...heres what happen

I putted on it for about 2 miles after a warm up, AFR's were in the 12 area, and ran smooth, shifted smooth(did the idle relearn at stops). Then when i was coming back i gave her a little gas(about 45% throttle 4psi as i read back on the log), watching knock retard and AFR, i did pick up a little knock and let off fast!(that was a reality check that i have boost)2* of retard for about a half a sec. I wont be doing that again! This thing is super rich as spark plugs dont lie! Black!

Then i eased into it again and saw no spark knock and this was at, 25% throttle and 2.5PSI, afrs were good(11.2 the whole pull). So I go to watch the datalogg back and relize that it isnt recording the MPH!!!!..... Anyone have any tips on this problem, although its not a big deal, i still like seeing the MPH for when im watching the logs.

No more driving it though till the weather clears up and i can part thottle tune more, but this file i am working with is somewhat close in some areas and is a nice base file forsure!

 

Does your car have a magnetic or optical VSS? The bin should be setup for the magnetic type, there is a flag to flip to use optical. AFAIK there is only one pair of inputs for the mag VSS input and one input for the optical.

 

I have no idea which VSS i have but I will change the flag and see if it reads. Thanks man!

 

Ok I looked at the flags(options 3 flags) in the bin, and it is NOT set up(check mark) for magnetic speed sensor. I hope that when i burn off the chip that was the problem. Also I dont see a optical VSS setting?? I do see vss instrument panel settings which are not checked either..should one of them be???

Thank you!

 

The VSS setting is an either type thing, when it is not checked it is set to the opposite type.

 

Your car has a 4-pole magnetic VSS.

You should also mount the MAP sensor with the pressure port facing down.

RBob.

 

I didnt know i was suppose to mount the map like that. Thanks Rbob!

 

As i look at it the threshold for that qu.async is this....
Rpms above which qu. async is not used..(6245 RPMS)
Mph threshhold for qu-async 25MPH.

Does that mean that i should change those values to stop the surging?? Im going to have to try i think.

 

Ok i gave up for the day!!! I can not seem to get the idle to be leaner at all, runs great crusing and easing on the throttle, but i think i just am going to have to wait for a few nice days and try again! I though the part throttle and WOT would be hard to tune.. not the idle, and god are my plugs black!! I can wipe the soot off of them...not good.

Oh yea changing to the magnetic VSS did work although it is not right, i didnt really look at the real guage while driving the car, but i know it was at least 30mph off, on the recorded log.. There is some pulse VSS values. Should I imput the same value that I ran in the $88 mask??

 

if u want to make things easier unplug the est conector and set the timming to 16* and leave the est unplugged until u get the afrs a lil closer.

this will lock the timming to 16* at all times

also if if say any of the pipes are hitting anything under the car this will also show up as false kr

wat does ur timming map look like right now

 

I actually did the timing manually earlier and it sounded better, but i didnt get to change the VE table as the AFR was at 12.5 and I was fed up 17* is what the base was set up at. Im just mad i cant get the idle leaner.

Timing tables are like this..99kpa to 194Kpa in 16 increments left to right
600-4800Rpms in 200 increments top to bottom
9.49 9.14 9.14 9.14 9.49 9.49 9.49
9.49 9.14 9.14 9.14 9.49 9.49 9.49
11.25 11.25 10.90 9.84 9.49 9.49 9.49
11.25 11.25 10.90 9.49 9.49 9.49 9.49
11.25 11.25 10.90 10.55 9.84 9.49 9.49
11.60 11.25 11.25 10.90 10.20 9.49 9.49
14.77 11.60 11.60 11.95 11.60 10.20 10.20
16.17 13.01 13.01 11.60 10.55 9.84 7.73
15.47 13.30 13.30 13.30 12.95 11.55 9.84
16.17 13.30 13.30 13.30 13.66 11.90 9.84
19.69 16.01 14.60 15.66 15.66 14.60 9.84
19.69 17.77 15.66 15.66 15.66 14.60 11.25
20.39 15.30 13.90 14.25 15.66 14.60 11.60
22.15 15.66 15.66 15.66 15.66 14.95 11.95

see those 17's and 16's thats about the rpms it was knocking...3k or so at low boost(3-5psi)

VE table above 100KPA is basically high 70's and low 80's values. I dont thing its getting a false knock, but i could be wrong. As soon as the car really pulled it was showing a degree or 2 of knock. So i didnt wana keep playing with the table till that stupid idle was bettter!

 

u need to ask six shooter or rbob but the timming tables might not be absolute nu mumbers , they may be additions to the base number im not sure since every ecm and standalone is different

if they are additional degrees then it would be ur base 17+9.49* in ur firtst line so be sure to find that out

 

if they are actual numbers though they are way safe and u shouldnt see and kr, though being excessivly rich can cause knock as well

 

oh crap i forgot a really important thing , u need to gap ur plugs at .020-.025 or u will be shasing ignition issues i went threw this on pilsburys car foir 3 days before we regapped the plugs

 

Ok well im 99% positive there is no adder on the SA tables so those numbers are what it is. The AFR. is never over 12.7 but does dip into the 10.2-10.7 area when the boost starts?

I also changed the map and such so that i could run the $88 bin i had(with 30lbs injectors).... I NEVER touched the throttle scared of boost, but it idled like a dream... 15AFR with my old bin file. I just wanted to see if it was my car or the $59 im having problems with..

 

ahh man... lol there gaped what the stockers are... like .050.. opps!!!
You told me before too and I completly forgot!!!

 

Well I will gap the plugs down and just start fresh with the starter bin.

If anyone wants to ..here is 2 comma Excell as zip files. I wont say anything about them(I have alot of questions about some of that data) Ill just let whoever see them tell me what they thing of the numbers. Youll see the knock retard in there too. Im a retard! For not gapping the plugs down, but as soon as i saw the knock pop up i let off asap!! I have to say I wounder why it says 60lbs injectors on the data info???

 

the kr was prolly from a missfire with the plugs gapped at .045 we saw issues on pilsburys car ponce it hit about 4psi and 3k rpms with the big plug gap

so u changed back to the regular code and stock map and it idled leaner???

 

Ok ill get to the gapping as later this week when i can drive it again. Hopefully its nicer next week.

Yea.. it was better on the $88 at idle it was about 14.5-15arf and didnt hunt. But as soon as applied the $59 again, it hunts at anything above 12.5Afr. I messed with the timing and never did it help.

Just makes me mad that when i took it down the road it ran so smooth with/and without boost. It was like driving a normal car, but when i come to a stop if just doesnt act right. Make me think that something in that $59 code needs changed. I went through like 2 1/2 gallons of gas in 5 miles of driving and roughly 40 minuets of idling...

ALSO id like to add that once i converted the KPA the map sensor was reading it showed. 16.54''of Merc and it moves a little but only .5'' or so at 875RPMs.
Is that ok for a 3.1l with a mild cam and ported heads?? I am going to go spray the hel* out of the gaskets again to make sure that a vac. leak is not the problem. I was thinking that mabey the $59 is just more sensitive to a vac leak?? I hope i do have one so i can fix it.

 

Ok i started up the car, let idle and sprade some carb cleaner on all vac lines and gaskets..exc. It did not change idle. So no vac leak.

BUT now those plugs are just tired of being flooded and i think there basically fowled out. Its starting to misfire a bit when you rev up a little. And the smell is straight gas(no oil) The plugs are very soot covered, theyve been getting like that but ive just been wiping them off for the most part, since ive been working on the idle tables so much. It reminds me of a 1962 olds 98 I got going this year. That thing loved to get loaded up at idle(I put too big of a carb on it) But it sounded just like this camaro when it gets loaded up...LOL Could probly light the exhast fumes up!

IIRC fowled plugs cause a misfire(if the plugs are bad) and also a richer then normal AFR. Im just gonna clean them up very well/get some new ones. Gap them right and start over on the tuning in a few days.

Mabey the .050 gap was causing the excessive build up?? Then making the spark try harder move with all that carbon build up?? I know it was dead rich when i first started it up with the initial starter bin... Im just thinking out loud

 

if its missfiring the plugs are fouled, once u fuel foul the plugs they are no longer good. just get new ones

also upload me all the software and the starter 59 bin and everything i need to start looking at the tune. also upload the tune ur currently using so i can see the differences between the starter bin and the one ur using

 

Heres the ADX, XDF, and 2 bins. My last one and the one I started with(called the 33lbs starterbin) Also ziped up the datalogs from the most recent chip I burnt.

Ill get new plugs tommorow.

F28 is the inject constant
F1 is the SA table
F29x is the VE table

 

thanks i got some time now so ill post u up a bin to burn in a lil bit

 

The F1 table is supposed to be spark in relation to crank, though because of some other settings and the advance curve built into some ignition modules it may not be exactly the same at the crank. There is no latency table for the spark curve to adjust for different modules, like some other codes have.

Idle uses the 400 RPM row, regardless of what the actual RPM is.

Make sure the base advance (KREFANGL) matches what your base timing is (EST unplugged). Grab a timing light and verify. It's also a good idea to very the spark advance once the EST is plugged in. In my case I had about a 2* discrepancy at almost every point, I adjusted a scaler to rectify that.

Just get the car to idle as lean as possible, even if it hunts a little. I'd rather have a little hunt, than constantly fouling plugs... I'm battling that right now with a guy I know, who runs his blown carbed BBC WAY too fat and constantly fouls plugs and doesn't understand why. :facepalm:

 

""Idle uses the 400 RPM row, regardless of what the actual RPM is.""

I sure didnt know that! I will get new plugs and start over tuning... because im dying from the gas fumes!

My KREFANGL in my bin is set at 0???? Spark Reference Angle... is 0 degrees.

 

god dam no wonder ur having a hard time, this is going to take some time, ill post up a bin for u to try later tongoiht or tommorow

 

six i dont understand the f28 table its set to 158 across the board and i see this is the closet thing to an injector constant he has 30# injectors what should this be set to ?

 

Is your actual base timing 0*? If not, say if you have a base of 10* (EST unplugged), then you are advanced by 10* of SA, in relation to the F1 table, right off the hop, which could be too much.

 

nm i got it
fast what was ur pulse widths at idle ?

 

his base is 17* so he is way off on his timing right now, explains the kr he got earlier
also explians his idle issues

 

My base timing is 17*... With the ETS unplugged

 

about 2.11 at 875RPM's

 

Thanks for the $59 bin, Mark. I was going to ask you if you could send it to me!

 

should be in the 1.5ms range at idle. first things first fix the KREFANGL and then see what it does

 

Yes, when not using an EGR (which is usually recommended to get a base tune), the same value is used in all cells. The F28 table can add or remove fuel, as the EGR opens, which is why it is a "vs EGR" table.

In at least one of my bins, (2.8L inline6 30# injectors, I have an F28 of 137, others I have around 144, depending on where the engine wanted to run, with some changes.

There is a calculation for this value, but whenever I have used it, I get these ridiculously small values that would max out the VE table in no time. IIRC for my engine, the calculation said somewhere around 72, the engine wouldn't even start with this value, unless my VE table was raised to almost max. The general consensus seems to be start with a starter bin, or a $59 bin that is close to the same combination, and adjust the F28 table until the engine idles at or near stoich, then tune the VE table from there.

The F28 table can also be used to fudge a little, when maxing out the VE table(s), the F28 number can be increased, which will reduce the number in the VE table for the same cell.

 

Why so much? Set it to no more than 10* (Which is a good setting for a limp home situation), then set the bin accordingly.

 

Dave there is a ADX file and the dataloggs in that file I put up to see the read time info.

 

Thats just what was set when I was running N/A and i though that there was a -10* that the ecu could take out.
Well i messed up again,, Ill get it to 10* base.

Ok set the KREFANGL for the same as the base. Which ill set to 10* then hope that helps, and use the F28 insted of goofing off with the F29x table. Im just new at this stuff and im trying my hardest to retain all of it.