u plub a boost gauge into the up ipe to the turbo u have to use a few feet of copper line then hook the boost gauge line to that and u take ur reading that way

but i already know u dont have high back presure if u did power would be falling off and i can see the car accelerates smoothly in the logs

once boost gets up into the 20's u will start to have that issue with the under k setup but the turbone wheel on that turbo is good for 400+ hp worth of ex flow

 

The methods vary. I've always done them the way I was shown to do them years back, by taking it down the track and using the readings that the gauges are indicating...

This is my buddy Don's Grand National, and in this video;

Boost Pressure = 27-28 psi
Exhaust Pressure = 23-24 psi
Exhaust back pressure to intake boost pressure = .82-.88:1

 

Ok I got it on the comp ratio test..
Is that 1/8 mile.. nice 6 second or so passes..

 

Mid 8's in the 1/4 mile @ 150 plus mph, running 1.83" intake valves. The car is a beast...

 

Wow is all I can say about that GN!! Awsome

Im going to go tear down the camaro now, Ill put some pics of the gasket and head up when i get it off.

 

Ok 2 hours later I got the head in question off, Ill take the other side off in a bit but I wanted to see the gasket... Heres a few pics, Im cleaning it up right now so dont mind that they look wet, its oil and such. There wasnt any coolent in the piston area, It definitly was cleaner...the water must of washed the carbon away..

Head doesnt seem to be warped but I will further look at that later when I get done taking the other head off.

The ring was still good arround the piston area on the gasket?? Mabey they werent torqed down enough and just lifted off from the block itself???

Head(I cleaned them up, they had a little milky on them) So there wet with oil


Heres the specific cylinder that was steaming, and also the piston cylinder, was cleaner then the rest, carbon wiped off.


Head gasket up against the head


Cylinder, I the little mositure that was on it and the carbon came right off Other cylinders were dry as can be


The gasket by itself

 

From what I am looking at, your head gasket(s) didn't blow, it looks like you were lifting a head under boost. Chase your head bolt threads, and torque down your new head gaskets down properly...

 

have ur heads presure checked , u could have accidently ported to far and cracked a water jacket

and while ur at it if the heads come back flat and no cracked deshroud those dam valves and pick up a bunch more power , u dont even have to disasemble the heads to do it

 

OK well im done for the night..not bad only took 4 hrs to get it tore apart, clean up the milky mess as much as I can, and get the block/heads/intakes ready for gaskets.

Heres some more pics of the blk, the horrible bolts, and such..

Heres a head bolt and I can tell you forsure i didnt chase the threads then I re-used them. I didnt know any better......


I noticed that the top of the threads on the bolts were completly flat, and not sharp. Is that another reason your not suppose to reuse them, because the new ones i got today, have a uniform thread pattern pitch(not flat threads at the top)


Heres a sorry site!! But i put alot of stuff down that valley to help get that crap out of the motor, I also wiped all the cylinders, rubed them down with assembly. oil and turned the crank over 2 times to make sure i lubed up all the cylinders and the lifters/cam.


Dave are you talking about these water jackets?? I barley worked the walls(just to clean off the carbon)when I ported the heads. I know a guy who flows heads, so ill try to get ahold of him and see if he'll press. test them for me in his free time. But i really really doubt that I cracked the water jacket.



I really do think(the more that I learn) That I just didnt get the heads on properly and the gasket was lifting up. Now that I think about it..About a week after I got it going i saw a cloud of smoke in my mirror from the car(it was jsut for a second since i reved it a bit thinking it was oil. I checked the turbo oil return because I though that was loading up. But now that I think of it that cloud was white(coolent) It didnt do it again after that so I didnt think much of it. But now I know that was the problem that is happening now.

Im busy as he*l for the next few days, but ill make time to get the car back on track. Im just happy to see that nothing seems to be out of the ordinary and that I have most of that milky crap out of the engine.

 

You know while it's apart you can goto the Upull it yard and grab some 1.6 ratio rockers from a 94-95 3100 V6. Pretty cheap mod, and should gain some power, IF you have a good Upull yard that's local.

 

If it was me, I'd have the heads checked for cracks while you have it apart. I agree with you that it was probably the way you assembled it last time, but it doesn't cost too much to get them tested, and it adds a piece of mind. If your anything like me, a small piece(of mind) is all I'm running on, and any little extra always helps!

David

 

Considering thats it is boosted, and I already have a cam, and ported heads, Im not gonna get rockers that are a greater ratio. I initial planned on rebuilding this motor completly in a year or two when I saved up enough $$ to do it right, and get forged pistons..exc.

J/Y's arround here are scarse..2 of them closed in the last 2 months..thas sa shame. I have to drive like a hour just to find a junkyard.


Thanks for the advice though, I just decided not to go that route 4 months ago when i initially tore the motor down and did the heads/cam stuff. The $$ vs Hp increase just wasnt worth it in my mind. even though they can be had for cheep. But the way you red turboed camaro IS freaking awsome man!!! Really it amazes me how fast it was. I saw the video on youtube.

 

I have no way to do that, dont know who does it, and dont have a way to tralior it to a shop to check it out.

When it was leaking coolent, I could literly feel the hot steam coming out of the base of the head where the gasket is. I definily just did a pis* poor job of assembly last time, this time ill do it right

 

go to Pull A Part, theres 2 in cleveland and 1 in akron and another 1 in canton. i know ive seen at least 2 dozen small port 3100's in the west side yard. get up real early in the morning and make the trip out there its not that bad of a drive.

 

I would but it cost me like 25 bucks to drive there and back. Akrons a good 2 hours from here.. Gas prices are so crazy right now....LOL oh well, i could get a moped!!!

 

Car is back up and running, no milky oil, no over heating.

 

Im taking it that my plugs are messed up... horrible throttle responce..LOL.. so I have to wait to get some plugs now.....

Well i did drive it down the road slowly, once i checked the oil and such again. Its clear, not milky, car want to stumble a little, and Im thinking its the plugs. Also its like 65 degrees out, no joke here in ohio. Intake temps are def higher then ive seen before. So i didnt beat on it at all, just crusing with out boost to check for leaks. I sure hope my problem is those plugs got messed up from the antifreeze..

 

I also did a comp test a few min ago.. I read from 145 to 155psi in all the cylinders. Is that about normal Dave, Rob, or anyonce else??? They held at those pressures also.

 

yeah, those compression numbers are good.

 

Ok thanks bro!!

Im hoping those plugs are crap.. and thats whats causing the delayed throttle responce. Car still runs good/idles great!, after the last oil change and the comp test I took her down the road for a quick second, got on the boost a "little" and it still got up and ran, just seemed a little delayed when i just floor it. Im done till I get some new plugs. I should have got some plugs this morning, but didnt think about the antifreeze and such killing the plugs. Good thing is the AFR's are good..LOL so the injec are working up to par under boost..

 

Yea your good. Great to hear that you got it back together!

 

Got the new plugs, and I really think the problem was the reference angle spark advance. I though it was at 10 on the dizzy but was actually 0*.... But anyways I just ended up getting the dizzy at 14* base, I hate adjusting the dizzy...that hold down bolt suxs and I got it there and left it there, changed the reference angle in the bin to 14, and the car runs much better! Heres a log, i didnt really beat on it but i wanted to make sure the power was like it use to be. Also it idles much smoother..makes me think i might of had a vacum leak that i didnt know about, the turbo spools up faster too?? Youll see what I mean in the excell log. Look at the 100% TPS pulls. I never turned the fan on and the engine temps stayed right at 180 the whole ride. Thank god it runs well after that head gasket mishap...

I need to figure out that wastegate control Duty cycle though...im lost on that aspect.

 

I was pointing to the spark reference angle over and over again, pages ago...

What are you lost on, how it works, or where to start? I can tell you that the wastgate logic with my setup is Open Loop, and is "pulsed" by the ECM at a certain duty cycle. Being that the wastgate is adjustable, it will of course overide any setting being made in the prom. Have you looked at some of the links to the bins that I posted awhile back, you will find that the wastegate logic between the $8F and the $58 are identical. I believe with $59 users wastegate control was altered from being TPS percentage based to being MPH based, though...

 

Rob i knew about the spark angle set up..... I just thought I had the timing at 10* base and it turned out to be 0*, i must of moved the dizzy when I tightened it down and it moved from 10 to 0*

Yes Ive looked at those links to those bins. but never looked at them for the wastegate DC, since i was just letting the wastegate spring work on its own before. Ill look into it I understand how it works somewhat, im just woundering how to set it up propery. And yes the boost control tables im useing are based on MPH insted of TPS% Thanks Rob!

 

That's a pretty substantial jump just from tightening it down, must have been because the distributor clamp is such a pain in the butt to get to on those motors...

 

It was a big jump... but jezz im so tired of messing with that dizzy. And the way they have the cap screwed down is even more dumb... I think they put on the cheepest screws arround..The one and only thing thing i like about fords... the dizzys in front.

One thing though about my car, why does it pull so dam* much harder when im like 90% throttle then 100%tps?? Just the tune i suppose?? Im running about 18.9* of timing at 11psi at the higher RPM's. Thats where it seems to drag a little. It doenst have spark knock..... More timing then that just seems like alot. Afr's roughtly 12.0. Thanks for any tips...I know you guys probley think im retarded..beacuse I ask so many questions, but when you work midnights, come home and see the car sitting there, its hard to sleep knowing you can go play with it....

 

what rpm is the motor falling off at
did u do any porting of the intake?

 

Its hard to explain, but it pulls hard if i just give 80% throttle the whole way, all the way up to say...4k rpms when it shifts(that last video I had on here was at 88% and pulled nice. But when i just floor it and go 100% tps, its just not as fast at both the low rpms, and the high ones, arround 4-5k rpms you can really tell. Its always been like that since ive started tuning the turbo. But its starting to innoy me!


That other day when I used that g-tech to estimate HP(I know its not the in stone numbers but its a guess) I read 198 RWHP when i was jsut easing into it 80% or so throttle, but when i layed into it 100% it read a lousy 182RWHP. I did that to make sure I felt what I really felt... I did that same test 2 times and the reading were 15-20Hp apart both times.

Yea i gasket matched the intakes. Not too much though.

 

u need to tune more at 100% wot im not sure how the 59 code is setup in that if it runs different at 100% vs lower throttle openings
six or rbob could prolly tell ya
it shouldnt start faling off tillaround 5,500 rpms with that cam did u reuse the stock valve springs?

 

I know the valves arent floatin, this feels differene. I got new springs, when i did the cam. I never had a issure before when I was WOT before the turbo. I think its in the tune also, and not mechanical. Ill have to find more into about all the WOT modes on $59 i guess.

 

with floating valves the car will just nose over smoothly it wont be rough

ideally a dyno run would be best to see exactly whats going on

what springs did u install u could have went to stif fon the srpings and could be collapsing the lifters

 

There stock # rate, just brand new ones. The delta guy said if I was reving under 6500 rpms, I'd be fine(no valve lift) So I just took his advice and picked some up at summit when I drove out there.

I really think its the WOT tune, like i said at WOT even the low Rpms dont pull like the 80% or so TPS pull(almost full throttle is a hel* of a rush I know that)

That g-tech run, the day i lifted the head gasket...that was WOT and it was not as fast as I though. I know that 14.78 doesnt mean crap...but it I bet @ 80-90% throttle I could have beaten that result.

 

WG DC....

Lower number for WG DC, means that more boost pressure is being passed through the solenoid to the wastegate actuator.

Higher WG DC number means that there is less boost pressure passing through the solenoid to the wastegate actuator.

0% WG DC means that the wastegate spring is the only thing controlling boost pressure.

100% WG DC means that there is no boost pressure getting to the wastegate actuator, and will get high boost pressure.

If you're spiking lower the WG DC in the areas (MPH in your case) where it is spiking. The WG DC table is a firs "best guess" once boost pressure is achieved .

There is a whole write up about it in the $59.org site.

 

Ok I changed that AE table a week ago and definitly did help the car not go rich under WOT from a stand still, but is there anything im suppose to tweak on the PE tables???? Remember this is the first time ive donw WOT on a car, and this code is a little indepth. Mabey thats why the car seems to be slower when at 100 TPS??? Compared to say 60Tps%....
Thanks for the help sixshooter, i understand the WG duty cycle perfect now!

 

I took some more % out of the AE and it seemed to really help when @ WOT..does that make sence? I also was messing with the WG duty cycle and i think i took WAY too much out at the lower MPH as it took alot longer to make full boost then it use to. But it was more smooth and gradual. It was almost 70* out. I just got home from work so i "had" to drive the car for a good 20 minuets. With the warmer temps and crusing for awhile I know see the intake temps rising more and the knock also. I saw up to 2 degrees of knock under boost in some areas, but it was warm and i kept bumping up the timing since i never saw knock. But I know that the air was warmer and will attend to the knock also.

Heres another log...I know you ppl probley are bored of my same old logs. But i like to toss them up in case someone sees something I dont. There is knock in that log and a few times that i let off the boost for a second when accelerating. I used that cheep g-tech again too and about 190RWHP is what its constantly saying(who knows how close that is but its a good baseline).

I actually floored it at like 10mph and when the boost kicked in at like 15-20MPH it broke the tires loose...granted it was a little wet but feeling the car push sideways when under 10psi of boost at 20Mph....thats a hel* of a great feeling!!!

Theres a few places that dyno arround here, I was thinking of making a few pulls. The one place you get 3 pulls for 55 bucks and the read out of the Hp/Tq. Or you can just rent the dyno for 85 bucks a hour. But i know that I cant re-burn chips that fast(old fashion chip burning is ssllooww!!). Id just like to do the 3 pulls, on three chips that I have set up and record the stuff.....dumb idea????

 

Get an Ostrich and then rent the dyno for an hour, win, win.

I WISH I could rent a dyno that cheap, IIRC the dyno here in town the guy wants like $150/hr without WBO2 datalogging. There's one a little farther away, that's a little cheaper, but not much.

 

u are getting knock when lift off the throttle u will be able to se ein in the graph i posted i would ignore the knock counts in the data log that oocurs when u lift off the throttle.

the only real knock i do see is between 3,850 - 41/4200 rpms which u can see in the third knock on the pic i posted
i would back the timing off 1* between 3800 and 4200 rpms and see what happens

what temp thermostat do u have in the car ??
also go to ur injector constant and slightly bump up the fuel just a tad i seen a few spots were afrs got to 12.9 under boost but for the most part its 12.0-12.5 right were it should be. the reason i say to add more fuel across the board is when u change the ignition timing the afrs will also change

 

Ok dave, thanks for the graph, Ill go in and take a * of timing out and see if that takes the knock away. I have a 180* t-stat in the car. Ill get on the fueling also where it needs it, that was the warmest day ive driven the car so far with the turbo. It was colder in the garage then it was outside It was about 65-70 outside But like 50 in the garage....amazing weird weather weve been having, one minuet its cold then 20 minuets later its 60*+ out...

@sixshooter. Yea im seriously looking to getting a Ostrich from moates ASAP.

 

get a 160* stat

 

Yea that probly keep the engine cooler, it hovers at 175-185 without the fan on.

Anyone ever used any type of heat tape on the exhaust pipe to the turbo/and the down pipe? To hold in some of the heat for the turbo and keep underhood temps a little lower?? Just thought it might help a little when its 90* outside come summer. And alot of that tape is pretty cheep, price wise.

Also is it possible to be to have too much timing and not get spark knock?? Or too lean or to richt?? Thats a dumb question but ill tell you the story......

Ok today i took the car for a little ride. First off the AFRs under boost were great and more consistant. 11.9-12.6 through out the runs. There was a little knock at first but it went away as the intake temps got higher(50-60*) Why is it that if the intake temps are, say lower then 50* I see a slight knock, but once the intake temps is higher it goes away?? Anyways i did a few WOT/part throttle pulls, short ones as im still playing with the wastegate duty cycle. But once when i got up to like 4500 rpms i heard a slight single pop..like it was through the intake TB area(A misfire)? That scared me and I let off. The car still ran fine afterwards and had no issues when i did a pull again. I just look at the log, and else then the knock i got when the intake temps were lower, the knock and afrs were in check. ..... All i can think of from what i know is that its either too rich...or theres too much timing, or my plug wire might be taking a crap..Mabey the plugs are gapped to tight...there at about .025-.028" Keep in mind this is at about 12PSI. Im turning it back down to 10PSI from now on, as that extra little boost doesnt help, just makes stuff more complicated.

That log is where it poped and its arround that 23-26 rows. Just wanted to see if anyone sees something I dont on that data log. Look at it the log..I hit a 12.9AFR in that 23-26 area.... that could cause this pop condition right? I know theres a little knock in there, and I will take that out asap. Only had that knock when it was under alot of boost, so the timing is too high right now in those areas.

Ive since turned the boost down to 10psi, made the WG duty cycle lower, and taken 1* of timing out of all the boost cells. I cant try this new tune out till tuesday.

And I swear that the timing it is actually putting out is higher then Im commanding it to do in the Bin file

But heres what i think is wrong..too much timing, not enough timing, or too lean... What fun tuning a turboed car is. The track opens on april 14th and if its nice i want to make a 14 second pass or ill be pisse* the whole trip back home.... Thats why im doing my best trying to tune WOT on some flat straight back roads. I know the drivablitly is fine for crusing.

Another q! Can I just leave it in open loop driving to the track. Im not to concerned about MPG. Since it sucks gas like a hoover vaccum when Im under boost. Im not to comfortable with the $59 to throw it into closed loop for driving yet...

 

Actually Ive looked it over and that timing is a solid .75 to 1.5* higher in the datalog then what I have it commanded to do in the bin file? My minds spinning right now about this tune. The ref angle,is same as the base timing.

I just think next time I drive im going to turn the bosot down to 8-9psi and go WOT and see if it want to make that pop, it was like it studdered when it did that. Mabey my ignition cant keep up with that large boost pressure at high rpms?? And the plugs getting blown out even at a tight gap? Since it might blow out in a cylinder in one stroke or 2 when it does light off again, it makes a little pop since that specific cylinder or 2 is loaded up with fuel?? Like i said it only did it once(a single pop) Sorry for all these post but im just seeing if someone has some theory to what im thinking. Also if it runs well and i feel the tune is "ok" i have no work on wednesday and might hit up that dyno for a hour since is suppose to be 55* out that day.

 

ill look at the log in a lil bit for ya

 

Does anyone know what exactly these values do??
Total Async Pulse Width.. Also what the min and max values affect?

Becasue its all over the place in my logs, and also the reason my spark advance seems different in the log compared to the comand, is because in PE mode there is a addvance in timing, I didnt know that but i've been looking everywhere in my $59 for anything I may have over looked.

Also have questions on AE Delta Map Threshhold for Transit Fuel Mode.. And basically all of the PE scalers in the code...

 

It is the current async injector PW, used for AE.

There are a lot of spark modifiers to track down.

RBob.

 

From what I see...yes. Very high number when WOT .79 compared to .34 when at the same boost level but only 80% throttle and it is 0-.2 when just crusing(no boost). Thanks for any insite.

I just did notice something though and mabey this is causing my problems at Higher Rpms, but in the bin there is a Fuel Cut off RPM Under the fueling tables. For a V6 it has 5461 cut off and 5349 cut in. Im not sure if that is a active table but if it is, that would explain some of my High Rpm issues, since i only see those Rpms under WOT and the auto tranny is supose to shift higher then that. That could also explain the pop I heard at WOT when shifting from 2nd to 3rd the otherday...

I think that cut out is active as if i relook at this attatched log, aside from the crappy tune, you can see the Rpms struggle before shifting, exspecially between rows 55-66. The rpms bounce a little. And that must mean that, that table is active for fuel cut off???

 

Put the injector PW into the Feb 26th data log and check it. I know in the $58 code that the fuel cut off is active.

At a minimum set it high(er).

RBob.

 

Ok thanks Ill make the limit changes, also here a few WOT pulls on the log with the other info.

Since then I have leaned the AFR out of tune but thats about it. I havent went WOT since because the car was so sluggish up top, im sure the limit had a big part of that.

 

set the fuel cut limit to 7k rpms, a fuel cut under boost is a bad bad bad idea. setting it to 7krpms will make it so u know damn sure it will never be active.

one funny thing i found with my transmission is the more power the motor made the higher it would rev before it shifted, never could figure that one out

 

Yea i set it at 6500Rpms for the cut out.

Man, im laughing because my tranny shifts higher now then it did with just the cam, and head work. It shifts at 5700Rpms into 3rd now. When you figure that one out let me know...

 

set the fuel cut even higher, if u lose traction u will hit 6500rpms no problem.
a fuel cut under boost is very bad

as my car sits now it shifts at 7,200 rpms with as much power as its making

edit

part of the really high shifting is prolly due to the fact that i have 4:10 rear gears and never recalibrated the govener but i also setup my motor to make power that high so it didnt really bother me

1-2 shift is about 6,900 and the 2-3 shift is about 7,200-7,400 though i have a few data logs of it shifting at dam near 7,800 rpms