Well I broke something a few minuets ago. Heres what happend

I was crusing arround for a bit and wanted to do a WOT pull when I was coming back down my road.

Shifted out of 1st fine, then when at high rpms in 2nd gear, I felt that brick wall effect, and let off gas immediatly. Costed to the house and once in the driveway, afrs were leaner then normal @ idle and the car was shacky unless I gave it some gas.

I checked the plugs and were ok..thank god! I believe its a injecotor that is shot?? Or mabey thefuel pump is bad but i can not check pressure at the moment as I dont have a fuel pressure tester. Gas will shot out of the shreader valve but you all know thats no way to test gass pressure.

I attatched the log from the incident, as you can see I was doing fine untill the AFR went high and I let off fast. I felt the car as if it was hitting a brick wall.

Car still runs/at least enough to move...LOL.. but i need to attend to this fast as the races start in 3 weeks and now im back to tearing the car down again... crap!!

 

oh no!!!!! lemme take a look at the log

 

i cant open that log for some reason, the last few u have posted wont open right for me so i dont know if u changed something when u make the logs or not

 

did you hear any unusual noises in all of this? did you do a vacuum line inspection and check the fuel pressure regulator. how about the fuel pressure regulator, any gas in the vac line?

 

thining back to my 2.8 before i welded the vacum ports on the back of the throttle body closed. i bet the big rubber vacum block blew off the back of the throttle body

 

No weird noise at all, no knock, not ticking or anything. It just felt like i let off the gas and i didnt. Thats why i immediatly let off the pedel when i felt that.

Im at work so i can look at the car, but will tomorow after noon.

What should i be looking for.

Dave im not sure why you cant see the log.. really one the log the boost was fine and then all of a suddon the afr went to 17:1 and i let off then it went into deacc mode. No spark knock and the timing was fine.

 

I looked at that theres still there. Both the big and small line

 

might have broke a piston ring, before u tear anything down pull all 6 plugs unplug the coil and injectors then do a compression test

 

Heres what i checked out

the plugs are fine
all the vac lines are fine
the fuel pump does sound ok and has pressure on the rail(I didnt get the chance to test with a guage yet)
The fuel regulator vac line does not have gas in it...dry as a bone.
Compression in the cylinders it still good

The car will start and just runs good then doesnt then good and so on...this is while in park. The AFR's at idle are moving from 17-18:1 compared to the 14:1 its suppose to be at.

I want to ohm out the injetors asap and check fuel pressure...does that sound like a good place to start??

Also I was talking to southbay and if a injector is bad then what size whould you think i should get and still be able to tune it ok.... i know that big A$$ injectors can be a little more difficult... i was thinking in the 42+:bs area IF that is the problem

Also let me add that in the last day or 2 ive noticed that the DC of the injectors would be arround 80 or so at WOT then for a hicup it would be way over 100%..like 120% just for a cell then it would be ok.. I would incounter a few of these here and there and in past logs from a week ago there are no hicups like that.

 

i get eerors when i try to open the log.

so when i remove the scannerpro line form the top of the log it opens, but all i get in the menu box that lets me select the data i want to see is col1 col2 col3 etc

usually it reads rpm , tps ,actual afr etc

 

how about this dave

 

ill check it out in a min

as far as injectors i would get 42#'s
we put 48#'s in pilsburys car and it idles fine BUT we also install a megasquirt ems in his car which will control pulsewidth down to .1ms

im not sure if the gm ecm has such fine control i would ask rbob how fine the gm ecm can control the injectors at idle

if the gm ecm can finley control the pulsewidth at idle i would get 42-50# injectors

if it wont be able to control a set of 42's or larger u would be stuck with 36.6# injectors, which u could extend with a 2-1/3-1 fmu and get aprox 460hp worth of flow out of them with the right fuel pump

i for one dont like this method since it makes the injectors work very hard to open against the added fuel presure, specially with stock style high-z injectors

with low-z injectors like i have in my iroc its not much of an issue, but unfortunatly i dont think ur ecm can cobntrol a set of low-z injectors

 

Ok dave thanks. Im off for the night. God I really hope its just a fuel injectors.

Whats the normal Ohm for those 28#'s I have at room temp??? greater then 12ohms on all of them?

 

that log opened , before u even steped on it afrs were in the 19's
u hit the throttle afrs dipped into the 10's then shot right back up under boost
can u make another log file for me with mph

from the looks of the log the ecm is going wacky it never shows u lift off the throttle

and the injectors at points were going to 25.63ms while u were idling

 

Heres another log of just the pull itself. Everything was ok till i hit that wall and let off. the ecm showed I let off(tps%) Keep in mind deaccel mode when i let off.

 

You need to get a fuel pressure gauge and test fuel pressure before anything else, and injector ohm's should read 14. First things first, let the engine sit for awhile then depress the schraeder valve just for a second to see if any fuel is in the rail. If it shoots out the pump is good, if it trickles out the pump is weak, if nothing comes out the pump is just about dead. Now, the injectors are obviously not leaking because your running lean, so, with the engine off of course unbolt the fuel rail and hold the rail up in the air. Have some one turn the engine "key on", do not start it, and check to see if all injectors release fuel during engine prime. If they all do, then they are of course opening. If one or two doesn't, which I doubt, then get a stock replacement injector here Click Here, or simply get a set of higher rated injectors. If it is the injectors Mark, let me know and I will see what I can do...

 

ok if u look at the first pic i posted the log was actually showing backwards compared to the one u posted now

but it still looks like the ecm went wacky the pulsewidth was jumping up and down randomly in that log , especially when it went lean the pulsewidths went from 11ms to 6 ms then back to 11 then back to 6 or so.

step 1 ohm the injectors
step 2 check the ecm and make sure the chip adapter or chip isnt loose

then go from there

 

i dont think its the fuel pump though it could be. looking in the datalog the puslewidths are randomly going up and down for a second at a time threwout the log even before it went lean

heres a snapshot of when it did go lean , and after the fact of it going lean the injectors pulsewidth went even more erratic when he let it idle then it was before he hit the lean spot.

there is no reason the pulse width should be jumping aorund like it is

 

Unfortunately, this is normal. I am surprised this hasn't been corrected in $59. The reason for it is that the RAM variable that is used for the injector PW changes as the calculation is being made.

So from time to time the PW shown in the data log is incorrect. As it is an intermediate PW value, not the final one.

These show up as 'glitches' in the PW. To verify that this isn't new I looked at the "March 6th WOT(only).csv" log file from a few pages back.

It too shows the PW jumping.

As for why it is going lean, be sure to keep the tank at least half full.

RBob.

 

thanks rbob

btw do u think the ecm hes using would be able to get the pulsewidth down enough at idle to use a 42 or 50 # injector on his engine

 

Tough to say. If he can get the injector compensation specs for them it will be much easier. Since the $58/$59 code won't do single fire the minimum PW that the injector can handle will make a difference.

The ECM can control the injector PW to 0.01526 milli-seconds (15.26 usec).

RBob.

 

Ok guys heres where im at. Its got to be the fuel pump! And to add there is between 1/4-1/2 tank in the car I just put 5 gal in it yesterday morning. And only drove it about 30 miles.

All injectors come out to 15.4 ohms. All of them. @ 75 degree ambient temp in the garage.

I didnt even have to check the fuel pressure becuase its almost no existant. Barly will it come out.

That rubber fuel line that runs up to the rail from the rear of the car...you can physically push it and colapse the hose, so there is NO fuel pressure in there at all. The car will still start as I tried before I started to trouble shoot. But as you can guess barley runs.

Also checked the ecm and such. Every connection is fine.

So I have these questions that I hope you can help me with...

Why can I still hear the fuel pump prime?? But yet no fuel is coming out?

And also what is the best overall way to put in a new one? In tank or inline?? And what kind/size 255 LPH?

I have never personally droped a tank to replace a fuel pump, just thought Id add that and im also on a budget.

Thanks guys!!

 

man i so dont wana have to drop the tank!

I also checked the fuel line off the tank before the fuel filter... yea no pressure in it when its suppose to be.

 

http://turbobuick.com/forums/threads...r-less.265540/

 

I do get a little fuel but nothing much from the rail, soon as I push the shrader it barly come out but it i turn the car over it does come out pretty good but no way near 20-30psi, i dont even need a fuel guage to see that.

Id like to also check the fuel filter but am scared to mess up the flare fittings that connect to the filter. Any tips on that?? Stuffs so rusty down there

 

Soak the threads of the saginaw fitting(s) with WD-40, then squirt some behind the fitting on the fuel line leading into the saginaw fitting. Give it some time to penetrate, then "lightly" grab the fuel line with a vice grip behind the fitting and try loosening the fitting. If the fuel line wants to turn with it, keep soaking it with WD-40 until it doesn't...

 

Ok i got it off rob. I can blow threw it. Not much pressure from the fuel came out. Basically just dribbled out when i removed the filter.

Do you think its my fuel pump? Is there anything else i should check? And also what fuel pump shoul I be looking for? Im a newbe at upgrading a pump.

Thanks so much!

 

I swapped pumps twice last year for my GTA, I was desperate so I went with an Advanced Auto special, and both of them failed within four months. Both pumps had enough in them to prime, but died out shortly thereafter. Go with the tried and true Walbro 255...

 

Ok rob. Thanks!! I dont need to regulate the pressure or anything do I, with the new pump?

somthing like this??
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Auth...a78ae3&vxp=mtr

 

Or this... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walbro-Authe...047607&vxp=mtr

 

Those fuel pumps are fine. I would also look into an adjustable fuel pressure regulator while your at it, and squeeze in a little more fuel with those 30-lb injectors for your wide open throttle pulls. I converted my stocker for my application...

 

Ok rob. Thanks for the help on the link and everything else.

I really can spring on the AFPR at the moment, but ill asap. Theres so many regulators out there, which ones are good to use and have good diaphrams??

 

Ok, just bought this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walbro-Authe...047607&vxp=mtr hope thats a ok one for 99 bucks. Man I hate being broke....LOL... 255LPH pump so it should be here on mon or tuesday. Man, this car is just a endless $$ pit...

 

... do you need me to convert one for you, I have an extra TPI one lying around.

 

Yea. if you could

 

i would buy either a walboro 255 or a aremotive 340lph pump

 

the pump u bought is prolly a knockoff, thats one thing i wouldnt buy from ebay, way to many fake fuel pumps on there

walboro from a dealer would have been a few bucks more and the 340 pump is only about 20 bucks more

if the pump u bought turns out not to be enough let me know and ill send u my spare vette zr1 pump

 

that should be enough to control a set of 42's if i recall corecttly on pilsburys car pulsewidths at idle were 1.2ms with a 48# injector

 

this...

and i still have the original regulator from my fuel rail, i can convert that one if needed. i ended up buying the BBK TPI adjustable regulator back in 2007 from brothers performance iirc. its a rising rate fpr, 1:1

 

Actually reversed it and got this one..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walbro-Authe...047607&vxp=mtr

if its real or not its what ive got coming.

 

thats an inline pump fast, u will have to modify ur lines and drop the tank pull th eold pump and modify the pickup tube

i would cancell that and just buy the right pump

 

No problem, all it is... is a drilled cap, welded nut, screw w/nut, and some epoxy to make it look rounded and smooth, and paint. Gotta trim the stem of the screw down just enough to clear the plenum, though. You need a special bit to remove and install the cap, but a very small vice will grab the screws though, which is what I use when I misplace that bit.

 

Ok rob, im going to see if I get time and get the old pump out today, that should be fun!....

@dave Ill make the pump work right, https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...isassemble.jpg
The pump still has a pick up hose, the strainer and such so how can it not be a submer. pump?

 

didnt relize the picture was a sample pic, the pump in the photo is the inline version

 

It ok dave

I was amazed how nice the inside of my tank looks, and the strainer was actually clean..LOL

I got the old pump out, im making a access panel for this.

Also the lines are cut nicely right now and I think I have enough HVAC crap laying arround to flare the fittings right, if it can withstand 300psi of head pressure in a airconditioner then it will work with our fuel systems.

I know some ppl dont like this route, but im doing it the right way, and its better then having to cut my exhaust out and weld it back in.

Ill put up pics later but i am using a 1/8 sheet of stanless steal to cover the hole up. It will over lap the cut out by 1" on all sides and I will be using weather strip, silicone, and a lot of rivets to secure the panel.

So if I need to get back in the tank again, Ill just have to drill the rivits out, but im sure as HEL# not using screws to secure it as thats just a accident waiting to happen.

I actually thing that if i get the panel secured like I want, it would not hurt the stiffness of the body in the rear of the car, as I know that this car is a crap unibody and I dont want to affect the body flex anymore then possible.

 

dont rivit it , i have sheetmetal screws holding mine down and its just fine.

besides if u ever have to drill the rivets out it sucks

 

here i decided since it was so nice out today id pull out my twin zr1 pumps and install my dual aremotive 340lph stealth pumps so i took some pics

i didnt bother to flare the lines since i plan on cutting that whole section out of the car anyways for a coil over setup and ill be putting a fuel cell in the in the well of the trunk, or threw the floor were the acess hole is cut now depending on how much room there is between the coil overs.

and dont mind the hose clamps i swaped them for hi presure fuel injection clamps, the hose clamps were from the po who installed a 5-9psi pump for the carbed motor

while ur back there pull out the sound deadning material, it will save u a fe wpounds and will help keep the trunk from rotting out, the stuff collects moisture.

 

Heres a few pics of what I did early this morning.

I put hoses on the lines for now to keep crap out of the tank...

Also I cut about an inch deeper on the opening so I can get to the lines better.




Old fuel pump




This is 1/8" inch stainless

 

Oh my goodness, yuck!

Just kidding bro, getting ya back for busting on my welds lol...

 

Here is what I did on my old project last year, which will also be done on my GTA very shortly. The cover was made with 16ga sheet-metal...