So I have decided to stay with my V6 2.8 when replacing the motor. Still after driving the car today, it didn't have a muffler before, it actually drove really well. To be honest the only issue I really felt was the stick shift was....shifting in a weird way like the transmission was moving out of place or something. Anyway I was told you can hear the bottom end is going on the motor but I want to get an opinion here. I know you can here, the lifters(?), or something ticking up top. If I can push the motor replacement back to the summer that would be perfect. Anyway let me hear opinions here.

Idle Video

 

The shifter moving in a weird way, "like the transmission was moving out of place" is the classic symptom of a bad transmission mount (The rubber has separated)

The noise does sound like lifter noise, if that's all your worried about I'd say drive it till the noise gets unbearable, then do your motor replacement. Yeah it don't sound like a low mileage creampuff, but it don't sound like it's gonna die tomorrow either (unless, of course, , your thrashing it like a stolen car, in which case all bets are off )

 

Yea after watching videos I put the rubber mount for the transmission on my to buy list. I appreciate your second opinion because I am trying to do a lot of maintenance and other restoration jobs on it. If I can put that money off it will give me more time for those things including a paint job. I even watched a video on some stuff to try for the lifters which I might do to quiet those down.

 

Ray, whatever ya do, try your damn well best to have the car mechanically sorted, built to whatever your final vision / version of it is, BEFORE ya have it painted !!!!!

Your nice new paintjob will really appreciate not getting all scratched up during major mechanical restoration work, trust me......

 

Facts. I am really focused on getting this car sorted. I just haven't posted a lot of what I have done because it maybe boring. I will consider painting the car because the only mechanical that could interfere is the engine replacement. So if it is an engine install they will have to take necessary care. Honestly I am being so patient because I usually just jump in, get out three weeks, then I realize I change my mind.

 

Delete.

 

Of all the options of engines that did come in these cars or will fit in them, why stick with the 2.8?

 

I don't feel like dealing with wiring issues and having to change the transmission. I would even go with the 305 with a carb but then I need the transmission upgraded. Doesn't really matter because all of the online places I would buy from are out of stock for the 2.8.

 

The 2.8 doesn't make much power but nether does a 305. Unless you're trying to destroy it you should be ok with the transmission holding up. Carb 305 is pretty easy to wire and decently reliable.

 

To be honest the 305 is cheaper by a few hundred BUT I will need all new accessories, intake, etc. and at least the bell housing for the V8 T5. Since what I really want is a cruiser the V8 would give me a better sound. I don't know I felt let down when I couldn't find the 2.8 in stock anywhere. So I may have to go the V8 route anyway.

 

Kinda related to what Orangebird said. Have your end plan in mind first hand. Don't do what you can do right now just because that's what you can afford right now, because you're just going to end up backtracking later. Kinda why I asked why you would want to stick with a 2.8 when you could with just a little more effort have a decent v8 instead.

 

I hear you. I'm actually ok with the V6 and don't want wiring issues. The V8 is cheaper up front and yes it sounds better but I am worried about running into issues related to the swap. I am giving it till late spring then I will have to pull the trigger in one direction.

 

try a used engine or a 3.4 out of a newer 4th gen?

 

If it were me making the choice for you. I would say go the 305 route because parts availability for the long term. 2.8 engines are hard to find and they aren't going to get easier. A carb 305 is so simple to repair, swap, operate, upgrade.

 

I really considered the 3.4 just for availability. I know it has some issues with moving stuff around but I don't think it will be too bad. However, stuff for all those old 60 degree motors are starting to get sparse. What I may have to do is find some place to store the motor, trans and accessories until I am ready to do the job fully. I guess I have to start doing more research to see what all is needed. Oh as far as buying a used motor, unless I can see the car it is coming out of and the odometer I would rather not.

 

what issues do you mean regarding moving stuff around for a 3.4?
Yeah, the 60 degree stuff is becoming a bit scarce sadly but it would be the easiest swap you can do. The 3.4 is a direct block swap.

The 305 is low on power as well but you will get more torque... if you do a V8 youll need to do some suspension upgrades as well.....305/350 swap is more less the same.....just save the time / money for a 350 imo though if you go V8... or find a V8 car already .

 

So the 2.8 in 91 was 170hp, the 305 was 220hp, and the 350 was 230hp. From what wiki says. Driving a 2.8 in factory or close to factory spec would seem like it would struggle just to keep up with most any modern 4cyl car. Me personally I would LS swap the car because I'm very fluent in wiring and I can do that pretty cheap for myself.
but that doesn't help you. So what is your limit that seems to hold you back?
Money or knowledge? Because knowledge can be gained if you're willing to put in the time and money can be overcome if you just do the project as you can.

 

In 91 the V6 was the 3.1 and only made a whopping 140 hp
in 91 the TPI 305s made about 220..but the more common TBI 305s made I think 170?


Ls would give him the best power but be the most complicated out of the swaps.
But the benefits will be worth the hassle if he goes for it


The 3.4 would get you a MAX of i think about 160.but when you add all the other 2.8 stuff onto it, its probably more restrictive than the 3.4 stuff plus age / worn / mileage so its probably 140, 150 MAX.


To be clear, OP you wont really get any power gains from any of the basic V6 swaps though....just swap ease / simplicity

 

A 3.4 long block is a direct swap for a 2.8 or a 3.1. As far as the horsepower, yes, the 3.4 only makes 160 horsepower, but that's not the end of the story. Intake runner length has a lot to do with where peak torque and peak horsepower occurs. Like with the TPI setups, GM designed extremely long intake manifolds that produced a torque peak at very low RPMs. Peak torque, according to the Tech Data tab on this site, Torque peaked at 3900 RPMs and Horsepower was reached at 4900 RPMs. IMHO, the RPM peaks seem higher than what my 2.8 produces. The intake manifold can be improved, and several have. As a very similar intake manifold was used in the V6 Fiero cars, and the PPG cars are a great resource for improvements. Also, many engine parts are shared between the Fiero and the F-body V6s. This makes sourcing parts a little easier, but not as easy as SBC parts.

The reason why the 3.4 only makes 160 horsepower is also due to the cylinder heads. The 3.4 cylinder heads are the same as the 2.8 MPFI heads, also referred to as the 2.8 H.O. heads. While this restricted engine, the heads do have some room for easy improvement. My heads in particular had the valve job protruding into the chamber ( the valve job wasn't sunk into the head far enough). A decent valve job and some bowl work (my valve throat measured in at 78% of the valve diameter). I believe there is enough room for improvement to feed a 3.4.

 

Even with that being the case. You spend a few hundred to maybe a max of 2 thousand dollars in a 3.4, intake, head work to make roughly stock 305 power and you have a maxed out v6 camaro to show for it. It just seems like a lost cause to me

 

I have an LT1 you can have. It needs fuel injectors and a wire harness that hasn't been chewed by rats.

 

305 is a beast, just no one gives it a chance.

 

side note... the video won't play, but if the lifters are bad, why not just replace the lifters? Thats only a few hours of work and won't cost as much as an engine swap.

 

While it is a lost cause, I would argue that a V6 to V8 swap is also a lost cause. For a V8 swap, a person needs the following: Engine, Transmission, Torque Converter, Front Accessory brackets, Radiator, Wiring harness, and Computer (Wiring harness and computer can be substituted for intake manifold and carburetor if that's the route being taken).

Honestly, there are only three options for V6 cars. First, keep the car a V6, live with it and enjoy tinkering with junkyard parts. I have $800 in my 2.8 rebuild and that includes a new set of injectors ($147) and a custom camshaft ($350). So a mild 3.4 rebuild with a stock cam would be around $800 or so if the engine ca be picked up for around $300. Option two is to sell the car and buy a V8 car. The third is to convert the car into a street/strip car, where things like A/C, interior, and the like can be sold to fund the drivetrain swap.

I chose to keep my V6 because the car is nothing more than a backroad cruiser. It's never going to be fast when compared to modern cars, but does just fine on Sunday drives through the foothills of Appalachia .

 

don;t forget the other benefit is the V6s smaller size / placement which makes handling a bit better! the v6 has also been very reliable for me.


OP can also do the hybrid / turbo thing.... but that's a lot of work as well and way more costly.

 

Not bad advice at all. Although I've had 5 different engines and pulled engines in and out of my car many more times than that without a single scratch. Bottom line is do your own work if you want your car to stay nice because nobody cares about your junk more than you do. I don't care where you send your car, it will come back with damage somewhere.

 

My head is spinning at this point. I was considering the 305 with carb because I heard you don't need to worry about wiring, am I wrong? I also have heard the 3.4 is upgradable but I am not interested in pouring a lot of money into it. I would buy it refurbished and maybe headers, exhaust, and better intake. I don't expect better performance just a nice GT type experience. The manual with these V6s really do make them run so much better than with automatics. Bishop I appreciate that offer but I will still find myself trying to work out wiring, etc. Plus I did forgot about the suspension issues with making the swap. Oh brother.....

 

I say.... just fix the lifters for a few bucks and continue to drive it for as long as you can. if you do end up swapping something cause the 2.8 is unsavable, just do a base direct 3.4 block swap and leave it at that. Dont bother with any v8 swap for now.

 

If you're going to do a V8 swap, any kind of V8 swap, it's pretty much the same work no matter whether you use a 305 or an LS. All the same stuff gets changed anyway, you're just getting 305 specific stuff, or LS specific stuff. Difference is when you're done the LS can be 400 - 500 Hp with just a cam swap. Ridiculous easy power. And most LS engines will come with accessories and trans already attached so you won't have to hunt all that down.

If doing an LS swap it makes no difference whether you begin with a V6 car or a V8 car. All the same stuff gets changed out.

LS engines have a lot of wiring but it's mostly self-contained in it's own engine harness. There aren't that many actual interconnects to make to the car. Just a couple extra wires to hook up beyond a carbed 305. You can make it more complicated but it doesn't have to be that way, plenty of people have done minimal wiring and it works just fine.

Money is time. If I want something more expensive then I just wait longer to save for it. I know that's maybe not practical for everyone's life style but patience will increase budget if you're willing to keep seeding the project fund bit by bit over time. On the flip side, projects are fun only for a limited time and then they become a drag and morale killer. Whatever you do, I wouldn't take more than 2 years, that's about the time enthusiasm for the project goes down the toilet.

At some point you'll have a car that's driving and awesome and you'll look at it and ask yourself, Why the hell did I spend all that money on a car that's only worth $3K ??? That's a legit question that only you can answer. My answer is don't sell it and you won't care. If you plan to sell it within the next 5 years I wouldn't put that kind of money into it. The payback on your spending is enjoyment. You gotta own it long enough to get the enjoyment to make it worthwhile.

 

Wiring for a 305 carb is,
ignition hot to the distributor for your coil.
ignition hot to the choke
Starter signal to the signal post on the starter
Positive Battery cable to the big terminal on the starter.
Positive Battery cable to the existing underhood fuse box
negative battery cable to the block
Large ground wire from the block to the frame
existing coolant temp wires and sensor installed into 305
existing tach wire in distributor
existing oil pressure sensor wire and sensor in 305

I did a swap like that on my buick regal when I was 17. It's super easy. You can more than likely use the existing starter wires, Battery cables, and ground cables. The ignition hot to the distributor is already there. And if you want, instead of making a new one just make a split come off of it and go to the choke.
the only wild card you will have to decide on is the fuel pump. If you run your existing fuel pump you need a regulator to keep the pressure down. And if you go with a with a mechanical one you need to go into your tank and take your electric fuel pump out of the fuel line and replace the sending unit with one from a carb car that can reach the bottom of the tank.

Forgot existing alternator wiring

 

For the most part you just use your existing wires. You just won't be using any of the fuel injection wires. Or emissions devices.

 

Ok sounds like I will have to stay in the V6 family. A 3.1 or 3.4 are basically the same price not to mention they are in stock. I guess what I need to do next is see if I can get one of them to agree to take my 2.8 as a core. LOL! I mean I will have to pay if they say no but it doesn't hurt to ask. Still the best advice is to push this 2.8 till it says no more. Keep redoing everything else in the process so that the project is moving forward. You guys have been great you really do help me stay the course. I am so impulsive sometimes that I am ready to jump ship.