10 bolt rear, with factory posi from '82.

beefing up the rear end here, will be putting on an axle support cover, and if I can find a zytanium cross shaft for it, i'll use that. I also think my left axle seal is leaking, so I thought i'd replace the seals and bearings now, since it's easy to do with it up on the stands...

question is, I tried to remove the cross pin bolt...... with a 12 point box end wrench.

Now that it's almost completely round , is there a way to get it out? I tried vice grips, and I can't get a good enough handle on it.... channel locks? I'm guessing it's not rusted it, just tightened.... Do these have a locktight compound on them?
any idea on the torque spec for it?

Thanks

 

No Loctite that I know of.

GO to the store and get a 5/16" 6-point wrench, and try again. If that doesn't work, weld a "handle" onto the head of the bolt. You'll be replacing the bolt anyway, so whatever it takes to get it out is OK; only, don't break it. That just raises the overall fun level to "fun overload".

You'll find that impact helps.... tap the wrench with a hammer or something, rather than trying to exert a steady pull.

Torque is something like 15 ft lbs. Exact value is not particularly critical. Basically, about as tight as you can conveniently get it with a typical 5/16" wrench, is plenty.

I don't know why people get all worked up over that shaft; it's not the weak point of the rear. Maybe just because it's cheap and easy and gives a warm fuzzy feeling. The things that really help, are using main cap studs, a brace type girdle cover, welding the axle tubes, using a solid pinion spacer and tightening the nut to a reasonable torque for the size hardware that it is (around 250 ft-lbs), and putting a good posi in it instead of the Gov-Lock that you probably have.

 

ok, I'll grab a wrench and see if I can still hammer it on to it...

main cap studs eh? You mean the 10 bolts that hold on the girdle, use studs instead? I can do that, no sweat.

I've welded the tubes ok. But I don't really want to put on a solid spacer, as i'd have to remove the pinion, and therfore have to re-set it up... I don't think I can do that at home without getting a wicked vibration from the car after that right?

 

No, not the 10 bolts that hold the cover on; the things that hold the main caps on. There's 4 of them, 2 on each cap. The factory used bolts.

You don't have to re-setup the pinion to use the solid spacer. It doesn't affect the pinion depth. You'd need to pull the pinion out, but all you'd be doing, is using the solid spacer with its shims to replace the crush sleeve, and thereby set the pinion bearing preload.

 

The GM pin I purchased did have red locking compound on it. Little heat would probably help.

JamesC

 

oh! Those studs! I'll have to do some more research on what to remove in what order, before I screw something up.. Wasn't planning on doing that...
oh well, studs from a bolt supply house, crush sleeve, that's not too pricey at all....

James: why did you get a new GM pin ? stronger then original or original one broken?

 

When I swapped to PBR's, I had to remove the axels. I rounded the pin a bit in removal (I used a 6-point socket and 1/4" breaker bar). The GM piece was was cheap and in stock, so I simply purchased another to eliminate problems down the line.

By the way, you might check the axels themselves. Mine were grooved enough that I choose to use off-set bearings.

JamesC

 

finally found a 6 point wrench, not that easy to find...
got that cross shaft bolt out easily enough....

however, everywhere i've read, it says "remove the cross shaft"... yea, ok, how? i've tried tapping it (hammer), and can move it a bit, but its so long, that if I tapped it until it hit the pinion gear, it'd still be halfway into the case...
any hints?

thanks

 

I'n unsure of what's holding the pin in. Once the cross pin bolt was removed, mine pretty much fell out (Do you need to rotate things a bit?). After removal, it's only a question of pushing the axel in, removing the C-clip, and pulling the axel.

JamesC

 

hmm, I did try rotating and spinning parts...
So far, i've taken off the cover, then the cross shaft bolt, nothing else... I don't need to remove the axle cap bolts first?


Well if anyone has any ideas for me, i'd love to hear them...

 

k, beat on it for a while, and creatively hammered it out...
There's no way that baby was going to "fall" out, that would have been too much good luck.
There's a slight scored ring, ~3/4" from the bottom of it.. Perhaps that's why.

Is this cross shaft just there to keep the axles from coming inwards too far and dropping the c-clips? Or is there an actual structural point to it? I'm guessing the zytanium is indeed overkill, but I think i'll need a new one anyway.

Now to find something to remove the outer axles and seals...

 

If the C-clips were to come out, so would the axel, so, IMO, there's a structural point to them. By the way, you might consider reversing the C-clips when you put them back in (might make things a bit tighter if there's a lot of wear). You're right, overkill. No way that shaft will break. A couple of whacks with a slide hammer and the bearings/seals will pop out. I knocked them back in place with a piece of 2x4 and BFH.

JamesC

 

the seal can be put in with a 2x4 covering it, then slam it with a big hammer (right?), but the bearings.. need the right size tube and tap it in?

I'm thinking about the posi in there now, and if it'd be worthwhile to obtain some 28 spline axles somehow (JY), then a 3 series 28spline posi, probably out of a 4th gen... I'll put up a pic of my posi, maybe someone can ID it, and tell me if it's the stock piece (junk?) or not...

 

I used the block of wood and hammer on the bearings, a brass hammer on the seals, IIRC.

JamesC

 

It's an Auburn posi, typical old stock one. Not the greatest but at least it's not a Gov-Lock.

The reason the cross shaft was hard to get out, which is probably also why it was tough to get the pin out, was most likely because the last thing you did before you took it out, was to drive the car around a sharp turn. That leaves the posi clutches all in a bind. You will find it equally difficult to re-assemble, because the gears are going to want real bad to be in a tweak, from the clutches holding the side gears all the way hard to one side.

From what I can see on the cross shaft, it's not particularly worn or anything. But they're so cheap (like $10), you might as well replace it.

You can get the solid spacer from Summit; it's some part # like a Ratech 4110 or 4111, I can't recall for sure. Like $20 or so.

If you want to do the studs, use ARPs. Don't try to half-*** it with hardware store stuff. They sell a kit.

THat's a 2-series carrier from the looks of it. If you buy a carrier, get a 3-series (assuming of course you're going to a 3-series gear .... ?) and get 28-spline axles. You can get those from Summit also, in Superior Axle & Gear; IIRC those are part # EV10-4. And on that note, your axles don't look real great where the bearings go on them; not wasted, but not exactly pristine either.

I would NOT Loctite the cross-shaft pin, certainly not any more than the factory might have already done. Think about what it's going to be like getting it out next time, if you do that. You think you had trouble this time? You ain't seen nothing yet.

To remove the axle seals and bearings, use a 6' piece of 3/4" water pipe. Stick it through the axle tubes, catch it on the back of the bearings, and knock them out from the opposite side. Don't screw aruond with a bunch of pullers and all that, that's too much like work. The pipe will knock them out in less time than it took me to type this paragraph.

 

Thanks! I'm guessing you were looking at my other thread for the pic eh ? (so why post here?...)

hmm, auburn eh? good to know. Well, i'm spending a bit more on suspension and rear end then I had planned, so in order to complete the car, I may have to cheap out for now....

Yea, I'm going to get the parts store guy next door to me to try and get that Ratech spacer, p/n 4111 is what I found as well. I guess i'll get a stock type cross shaft then.

Oh ok, didn't know there was a kit for the studs, i'll look into it, but I think ARP's website is still under construction, so I may end up skipping that part.

The gear ratio is 3.23, so that *should* be a 3 series shouldn't it?
I'm not so keen on replacing the posi and axles ($600 or something..) The axles are 26 spline, and posi matches so...
I might just leave those alone for now, then upgrade then later down the line.

hmm, that last paragraph you wrote is almost word for word of an old post by RB ... I was planning on doing that, just have to find some water pipe....

 

Yeah I looked at the pics in the other post. At a different time, I came back later and wrote this.

I have a set of the main cap studs, I can't recall where I got them though, it's been probably since before some of the people on this board were born. I can't remember stuff like that for that long because I'm sofakingdom.


This can be alot like Software Writing 101:

Never write when you can just copy....


Home Depot has water pipe