One of your forum members graciously emailed me a link to the following webpage:

http://www.go.to/tpi383

I believe per the webpage this is your forum members "TPI 383" webpage.

My question is, does anybody at all notice anything wrong with the Dyno graph of 439 rwhp on all motor and then the 125 NOS shot of 530 rwhp within the Dyno graph section of this page.

When I first went to this webpage I had a problem with the dyno graph right away... it shows a Long Tube Runnered 383 pulling to 7000 rpm with a 6600 rpm HP peak..... Huh !!! not gonna happen, even with extensively siamesed runners. Please have a close look at the dyno graph on the webpage... and then dismiss it, and for heavens sake, don't try to copy his set-up and expect 9 and 10 second results !!!

Hope somehow this thread will save somebody a lot of fruitless time and effort.

Todd



------------------
85 Vette
383 SR Motor
11.55 @ 117
1.552 60 foot
http://corvetteforum.net/c4/beach_bum/

 

I guess I should have mentioned in the original post... the Dyno Graph he shows was stolen from the Hoover 93 LT-1 401 cube solid rollered 10 second vette.

http://members.nbci.com/p_tobin/Hoover/

Go to the above webpage and you will find the exact same dyno graph as 383TPI has on his page.... Hoover actually did that dyno a few years ago at the Carlisle Corvette show.

It appears somebody liked that dyno sheet so much... they stole it.

Todd

 

The guy is pullin our leg?
I just checked out the Hoover dyno chart, its the same one!!!??? What a rip-off! Why would some one make up all that BS?

I say bring that thing down to Houston and I'll run'em, and we'll know if he can run mid 10s and is telling the truth or full of it!

------------------
91 B4C 305 TPI - SOON TO BE 383
TREMEC 5-SP, STOCK 1-BOLT REAREAND w/342 GEARS, K&N, AIRFOIL
EDELBROCK HEADERS, DUAL CAT TO HOMEMADE Y-PIPE & 3.5" SINGLE PIPE W/ FLOWMASTER, CRANK PULLEY, MSD, FUEL PRESS REG, COWL HOOD, WELD WHEELS
14.1@ 98MPH
-------------
OTHER RIDE
67 CAMARO - STREET CAR, BIG BLOCK, PUMP GAS
350TH w/ATI 10", 12-BOLT w/373 GEARS
10.47@129 1.55 60FT. ON MOTOR - ET-STREETs w/MUFFLERS

[This message has been edited by RW91B4C (edited August 17, 2001).]

 

Yeah, I seen this car a while back and was thinking the exact same thing you were. 7000rpms and 439rwhp using long runners! <cough>bull****<cough>!! I mean if your at least gonna bull**** about your times and hp, at least make it seem believeable.



------------------
David Tuschhoff
1991 RS/Z28 Camaro
Fuel injected 355ci V8.
12.47 @ 110.7mph 1.80 60'
Best mph of 111.6.
My f-body page!

 

I'll be honest, I was really hoping the guys webpage was legit... I would have more than likely copied the head and cam profiles and used my SR instead of his long tube runners on my set-up and shot for the 10's too.... but as soon as I discovered the dyno sheet was stolen from Hoovers page... I am forced to dismiss the whole webpage as fantasy.

Oh well....

Todd

 

Hahaha, before this guy disapeared from the boards I used to talk to him on messangers all the time.... WHAT A PUNK


But he did mail me his NoS Fuel pressure gauge for free, that was cool

I'd have to say those are the same dyno sheets, but he is a cool guy.

------------------
1985 IROC-Z
TPI 305, 700R4 with shift kit, richmond 3.73's, auburn pro series posi, crane compucam 2030, ported plenum, gutted air boxes, all the little insignificant stuff.

[This message has been edited by IROC-Z_85 (edited August 17, 2001).]

 

Saw this a year ago....no long runner setup makes peak power at 6500...The fuel system wouldn't have supported those times either.

You can't always believe what you read on the internet ...period.

Btw Todd I'm doing a 383 Mini-ram.

Looking at your set up...(I don't know what your head flows)....but with the mini-ram you'll be moving your RPM range up past 6000....you said you peak around 5800.

You can run a little more cam than the 219/219 cam...I would get a custom grind that matches your heads.....I am using the TPIS ZZ-409 cam in mine....226/226 @.050 ....520/.520 lift with 1.5's.
I know the ZZ-409 can pull over 6 grand....I'm just not sure where to degree it at..I've seen it in a few stroked vettes and it supposedly runs good.

But I think a custom grind is the way to go..Mini-ram likes deep gears..3.70's auto...4.11's on stick.
I'm running a ford 9inch 3.70 gear in my setup....

I'm not sure what to expect out of it.....but the cam matches well to my heads,should work well on thestreet...and is said to be able to pass emissions....

I think your vette is very impressive as is...11.5@ 117....I'd be happy withthat on my setup....of course I'm also spraying between a 100-200 shot.

 

Ill take all the flames here for the Dyno sheet.
My dyno runs when Jim formato (http://www.fasterproms.com) did my chip and tuning were right around the same #'s so I used that dyno slip.( This was at Ramsies Perf. , In Tampa, Fl.When I lived there.)

He did 6-10 chips befor he got it right.
Jim did all the welding/potring of the intake and runners. and selection of the heads and cam. ALL THE PARTS LISTED on the SITE are for real. The time slip is for real. Just NOT ME DRIVING.

I ran the 10's spraying.
JIm ran the 10's in my car on motor and 9's on the bottle. I myself didnt.

Stupid of me to use someone elses dynosheet.
Im not dening it. the rest is all true. If you dont want to belive it. Im not loosing any sleep over it. I prob wouldnt if I was you eiter.

but I can point out a few other 10 sec. LTR setups.

Anyways. FLAME On Im all ears....

 

I don't beleive a LTR setup making peak power at 6500...if it was possible than lingenfelter,TPIS someone would have done it by now....but hey ..I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

 

Its not near 6500 at all. I just used hovvers sheet based on my times. and the simalarity in HP/TRQ not RPMS.

I manually shift at around 5800 I have a 6000 Pill in the MSD and have hit it befor pushing the car hard.

The et's were when the car was only a track car. Im talking 3250 with me in it. Weighed at the track.
NO SWAYBARS.
50/50's 90/10's
Drag Springs.
No interior carpet or sound deadner etc.
No rear seats. Just front.
I have no heater core/AC etc. then or now.
No crash bumber under the front clip.

 

TPI383,

Interesting... I commend you for admitting a mistake. Now that this is over, lets talk about your set-up.

How far did Jim go with the porting of the intake, runners and plenum.... I would think it would have to be just about hollow in their for the motor to spin to over 6000 rpm. I have never seen a long tube runnered set-up make its peak HP over 5000 rpm. I have seen some that still make power beyond 5000 rpm and even up to 6000 rpm, but the peak was wayyy back at 4800 rpm typically.

Can you make another trip to the dyno sometime this summer and share your results. I would also like to know what your heads flow and what the intake runner size is if you happen to have any of that information. Also maybe post a naturally aspirated timeslip. btw, whats your raceweight? If you are running those #'s... I'd love to learn from your set-up.

Don, Thanks for the info !!

I am aware of how a MR should be set-up, but before I make the switch I simply want to see some additional proven set-ups if you know what I mean. I have heard of air distribution problems associated with the MR. I never put any weight in these claims if I hear it from just one person, but I've heard about it from many people, so maybe there is something to it... or maybe if there was a problem it has been fixed with the MR 2.... dunno and why I'm asking a bunch of questions, considering my racecar budget is emberassing, I can only afford to do these things once typically.

My vette et's fairly well, but it doesn't mph very well, in part due to the 3500 lb raceweight or low compression (9.8-1) with my iron heads, also my un-ported SR intake, but mainly because the SR is a bottleneck ported or not. I'm only making 362 rwhp and that is with the 219 retarded 2 degrees, which gave me my 5600 HP peak rpm.

Here's the dyno for those interested. (This is with the Vigalante un-locked obviously)



Thanks for the information.

cheers,
Todd


------------------
85 Vette
383 SR Motor
11.55 @ 117
1.552 60 foot
http://corvetteforum.net/c4/beach_bum/

 

As a note, I do know of a couple of good running 383 MR set-ups. Forum member Bowtye8 and his brother in law John both have them on their set-ups... however they only made the switch to a solid roller and good set of AFR 210 heads in the beginning of the summer. Unfortunately Bowyte8 snapped his Dana 44 1st time out and has been fighting with a vendor all summer on getting it fixed... I think recently he got it back together... but no results yet. If interested you can link to their webpage within my "interesting links" section of my webpage. (The link titled "2 stroked Vettes")

Their results will be interesting. I hope they can pull out 125 traps !!!

Todd



------------------
85 Vette
383 SR Motor
11.55 @ 117
1.552 60 foot
http://corvetteforum.net/c4/beach_bum/

 

The intake base is simmesse ported along with the runners and plenul to match. The TB opening is one hole now also. After porting everything it was extrudhones.

Heads are AFR 210cc Competition heads.
2.08/1.60's
extrudhoned also.

Flow is around 290In. and 230exh. @ .600
Cam is a custom ground LPE Solid roller
236/246 .590/.590 with 1.5's
I have crane gold 1.6 RR's

Weight at time of drags was 3250 with me in it. as said above

 

Beach(Todd)

Hows goes it

Don
Here is a link to my sites. I have some experimenting as well.
I had the superam and now the mininram.
I also have some dyno sheets at my site.
Hasnt been updated in a while. My vette is back on the road and will be at the track shortly. I still have some chip tuning todo.
I also want to get a dyno session in. I may do that at the RT 66 vette fest in Joilet this oct.

Http://www.geocities.com/bowtie8
http://bowtye8.tzo.com

------------------
85 vette,383,miniram,ZF6,4.10's..best ET 11.56@119.00 60' 1.59
w/100HP nirous 11.05@127
http://geocities.com/bowtie8
http://bowtye8.tzo.com

 

I'm confused. I thought horsepower and torque alway intersected at about 5250 RPM. Is that only on an engine dyno and not a chassis dyno?

Thanks, great reading and information!



------------------
_ ___ _
SMasterson

 

For 362rwhp,I think you trap pretty good.
Do you know what your heads flow?

I have not heard of any air distribution problems with the mini-ram....if there is it must not be that bad.....since there are 11/10/9 sec cars out there using it.

My setup as of rightnow:
Balanced/blueprinted 383 short block/forged internals/
Mini-Ram 1 stlye intake that is ported/port matched to a set of CNC/hand ported L98 aluminum heads(should flow right around a set of AFR 190's when done)that are port matched to a set of SLP 1 3/4 headers that are ported and jet-hot coated,that runs through a set of flowmasters. (3inch out)

Cam:TPIS ZZ-409 226/226 Dur. @.050 .520/.520 lift

Rebuilt 700r4/with shiftkit/vigalnte stall 3000 stall,Aluminum driveshaft/spohn torque arm/ Currie built ford 9inch 3.70 gears,with detroit soft.
locker.

100-200 shot of nitrous.
255 walbo High pressure intank
T-rex inline /30lb injectors

Will be Dyno-Tuned.

Anybody have any results with the ZZ-409?

 

SMasterton,

Yes, torque and hp ALWAYS interesect at 5250 rpm due to the mathematical relationship between the two. (HP = tq/rpm x 5250)

If you look closely at my dyno sheet and notice that there is 2 different scales on that sheet, you will notice that Torque is represented on the right hand side scale and HP is represented on the left hand scale, thus my torque and hp meet at 5250 rpm with each at approxmiately 350. This is a common way to represent dyno sheets, especially when the torque and/or HP is much higher than the other.

Hello Dennis !! Lets get some track results from you now that you're back up and running !!!

Don, My traps are just not that good, in the summer heat I am typically running 115.6 to 116.6... but as you may have noticed from my above post, I've left some power on the table I have to claim yet. My flow #'s are 260 cfm at .550 lift and 190 cfm on the exhaust side.... nothing great, but not bad either. As a note, my Dart 2 heads are about 4 years old, in which at that time, they were the exact same heads as the Sportsman 2 heads when Dart and World products were in cohoots with one another, and these heads flow like crap out of the box... you must port them to do anything. (They were approx. 220/150 out of the box)


TPI383,

Thanks for the info, I'm still not a believer though... you gotta show me some dyno results mixed in with some timeslips for me to believe a 383 long runnered set-up can make into the 10's. However, your 3250 raceweight will certainly help you come closer to the mentioned numbers.

Cheers,
Todd

 

It does cross at 5252, the scales are different... take a closer look.

 

Well, heck, I did look, but not close enough. I seen where the scale on the right was twice as high as the one on the left, I just didn't figure it out until you explained it to me. Sometimes I can be pretty slow!

Thanks!



------------------
_ ___ _
SMasterson

 

TPl383 - I can tell you one thing you could do to at least show you are not totally BS about everything - post a couple pictures of your solenoids and how the nitrous is feeding that under the intake fogger system you're suppose to have. If you're willing to do that I do have a couple questions about that 5.732 1/8 mile. No pictures,, no need to ask.

 

Not to drag this on further, but are you saying Jim Formoto ran that 9.8 in your car? That slip was run on Nov 27 1999. Jim passed away about 2 years ago and hasn't been racing for much longer than that even in his own car.

------------------
Phil
93 LT401
<A HREF="http://phil.tobin.net/Hoover" TARGET=_blank>
60ft - 1.45
1/8 - 6.74 @ 102.3 MPH
1/4 - 10.64 @ 125.34 MPH (BEST MPH 128.10)
500.4 RWHP, 456 RWTQ
</A>

[This message has been edited by LT401Vette (edited August 18, 2001).]

 

I'd like to consider myself an optimist. Just because a lot of people aren't running the long-runner set-ups doesn't mean it can't hit low 11's, high 10's.

Maybe with the right porting of the intake, cam and heads + a light car and proper gearing, it can be done? Take a look at the Super Stock eliminator guys, they make good times with the stock components, stock lift and big duration.

I'd like to think that it is at least "somewhat" possible?

I hope to flow-bench test a mini-ram and super-ram next week to see the differences in the 2 intakes. I will keep everyone posted. I may as well flow my stock intake as well.

 

Over on 3rdgen.org TPl383 has admited to running a 10.80 on a 125 shot and with him driving only able of getting a "11.5 around 118" on engine out of the car. He's stated he never claimed that HE actually ran the times claimed on his website (a true Clintonism), but will however update the site to reflect his appearent lack of driving skills. I don't know why this has pi$$ed me off so, maybe cause back in February he and his buddied over at 3rdgen.org poked fun at me and BLADE when we smelt a rat back then. However, it looks like no one really cares,, and 6 months is way to long for me to hold a grudge,, so I'm done.

 

You asked for proof - here it is.