I am putting a 79 350 with the old style HEI distributer in my 87 Formula and I would like to upgrade it to a late modle style small cap distributer (like came in the car.) Will that distributer work in the older motor? If so I plan to buy a MSD 8366 for it. I already have a MSD Coil and all for it...my concern is will it fit the old block and cam. Thanks!

 

It will fit the block and cam fine.

 

Thanks...I just wanted to be sure before I spent the money on it!

 

You're going to be computer-controlled?

 

Yeah...the car came with a carb so it should work fine I would think. I need to leave the computer in to work the TC lockup and all anyway. Any reason why that wouldnt work?

Also the motor like I said it is a 350...its bored .30 over is a very mild cam, Edelbrock RPM Intake, Edelbrock RPM aluminum heads, Edelbrock AVS 650cfm carb and headman headers/y-pipe through a Flowmaster cat-back.

 

As long as you've still got the computer-controlled carb, it'll probably be ok.

 

The carb wont be computer controlled...in fact the car had a Edelbrock carb on it when I bought it.

 

That's not going to work then. You're going to need a distributor with mechanical advance and you'll have to provide an alternate means of locking the torque converter.

 

Not to be a smart ***, because I don't know, but I have been driving the car with a non-computer controlled carb on it for a year and I know the TC lock up is working fine and I would certainly think the electronic advance is to. What part of the carb has to be computer controlled to make the rest of it work? I thought it just came with a regular q-jet to start with.

 

Without a TPS signal the ECM should throw a code and go into limp mode.

 

What would Limp Home mode do on a carbed motor? Does it affect the timing and trans function? Basicaly thats all my CPU is doing at this point anyway. I am familiar with what Limp Home mode is and what it does on a fuel injected car.

Was the TPS an internal part of the factory carb or was it part of the linkage. And if it was just part of the linkage can a TPS be fitted to an aftermarket carb?

 

Limp mode on a carbed car would make the mixture full-rich, and wouldn't have any timing control. The TPS is part of the carb. There's been some discussion on whether or not it could somehow be fitted to a non-CCC carb, but I don't know if anyone has done it.

 

Thanks for the info...you have given me a lot more to look into now.

 

TPS is internal to the carb. If your lock up is working and you have an after market (edelbrock, yuck!) carb on there then someone has wired an alternate means of locking the converter. Stock form, the ecm controls lock up based on steady TPS and VAC sensor readings. An alternate TPS can be wired up (theoretically) to provide a signal to the ecm to control lock up and advance but it would probably be cost prohibitive, in that other parts/pieces would be cheaper to do the same thing more efficiently.

I imagine that, without modification, for your system to provide lock up without the ccc-qjet would violate at least one physical law. Now if the TPS wiring were set up with a resistor to provide a constant voltage value to the ecm, maybe lock up would still work? And you'd have ignition advance, just not variable? Probably function marginally enough so that someone who didn't know what the "complete working system" was capable of wouldn't know any better? No offense, but I'd take a good look at what you've got to see what, if anything, has been hacked.

No TPS = zero voltage, ecm assumes engine at constant idle (normally 0.40 volts at idle, now zero) may not throw a code. Unplugging the MCS will throw a code and yours should be unplugged unless it's plugged in somewhere and hidden. Got any mysterious clicking noises? Bet your check engine light has been pulled.

Edit: Yes, I've run with the TPS unplugged and not throw a code, but Apeiron is right, it will run full-rich without lock up, at least on my model(s).

 

First off the car is a total slug right now anyway...which I thought was just normal for a LG4 305. (I also have a 2002 Firehawk and 2000 WS6 Vert...so I was may have been just assuming this car was going to be slug and not suprised when it was.)
When I bought the car the CEL was on and I pulled the bulb because I THOUGHT it was because the O2 sensor was not plugged up. I am sure that no one with enough sense to modify it to the extent of making these things work has worked on it...so the TC lock up may very well not be working even though I thought it was. But that really isnt the issue, that engine/trans and set up is history anyway....what I guess I need to do is concentrate on getting the new engine set up correctly.
So now its a given I will be going with a mech advance dist, but to address the TC lock up (besides going with one of the several kits out there to control it) can I just go with a aftermarket non-lock up converter and solve that or do I need to find a way of fixing it so the TC will lock up? BTW...gass mileage is the least of my worries with this car.
I will be honest at this point I have spent enough money on this car (9 bolt swap...PBR brake up grade...total suspenion rebuild with eibach springs...completely new interior...and right at a $4K paint job coming after I finish with the motor.....plus so much other stuff I cant even think of) that I want to do this right even if it costs some money. I have built several TPI cars and 4 LS1 cars but have never dealt with a carbed car...and to be honest didnt think it was nearly this complicated. So your help is greatly apprecaited.

 

hmmm
apparently you have not driven any vehicles with a 305 other than yours,

if they are in good operating condition and the axle gearing is good then they will run pretty strong, as will any healthy engine, even a little 4.3 or 3.8 will run pretty strong if it is in good condition, and especially with decent gearing around 3.42 or so

i have to say that yours is not in good condition and needs gone through or rebuilt, or is in limp mode i bet you

one or both

but good luck

 

I wasnt trying to insult other 305 cars. I guess "strong" and weak" are relative terms. What I should have said was COMPARED TO MY HAWK AND MY VERT it is a slug...and thats not a fair comparison to make. But your right I have never driven another LG4 car and wasnt expecting much at all from it. So when there wasnt much there I wasnt supprised. It seems to be a good motor and runs well (its only got a hair over 70,000 miles on it), but its weak...not crippled weak but nothing like my LS1 cars for sure. But again that has never ever been a concern to me as I had plans to swap the motor out from the begining anway. I am very open to the fact that car is in limp hom mode now, and from the other comments in this thread I am almost positive it is. But all that means to me is I have to address that issue before I put the new motor in...and it looks like a mech advance dist. (which I already have on the motor anyway) and something to address the TC issue will solve those problems.

Oh yeah when I went from the 10 bolt/2.7X gears to the 9bolt/3.23 gears it did make a difference on low end but top end is still non-existant.

 

Without the TPS signal, the ignition timing advance will be very limited. In order to get it to run decent, you'd have to advance it so much it would kick back on the starter. In order to get it to start decent, you would have to leave it back near "normal", and it will be a dog running. Sounds like it has been set to the latter.

The TCC lockup may have been done properly.

My vote would be to put a CC carb back on it. But, I'm pretty biased that way.

On the other hand, I'm seriously considering the external TPS to compliment a Holley 6210 double pumper spreadbore while retaining the CC ignition et al. That's because the car is drag raced during the summer, and the DP is a little better for that application.

 

You'll need some means of locking the converter. The lock up prevents excess heat from building up during cruise when the engine is spinning at near stall speeds (more slippage). You probably won't see much mileage increase from it, maybe on trips, but it will save you a tranny rebuild.

You can do a search here for the parts required to control your lock up and save a good bit on one of the kits.

"Without the TPS signal, the ignition timing advance will be very limited. In order to get it to run decent, you'd have to advance it so much it would kick back on the starter. In order to get it to start decent, you would have to leave it back near "normal", and it will be a dog running. Sounds like it has been set to the latter."

...I was pondering the idea that a resistor across the TPS terminals could provide a constant voltage signal of between 0.4 and 4 volts to confuse the ecm into "thinking" that the TPS was there. A voltage signal near/slightly above idle voltage (0.4) would send the idle/off idle advance signal allowing the car to run reasonably well, but without full advance at higher throttle positions. It would also allow lock up, although unlocking with throttle change wouldn't work, it would have to see a more drastic vaccuum change. In fact I've (inadvertently) run my 85 LG4 with the plunger missing that engages the TPS and still had lock up AND noted the difficulty in disengaging lockup-and it ran like a slug.

I wouldn't advocate the above as a practical solution, though. It should, however, be easy enough to install an external TPS somewhere in the throttle linkage that would provide the 0.4 to 4.0 volt signal.

 

Again, thanks for the help. This has been VERY enlightening. I have decided to go with a mech advance distributer (even though I already bought the MSD electronic dist...I guess I will just resell it) and a TCI lock up control kit. I am sooooo glad I found about this before putting my new motor in and being disappointed in it not knowing things werent right.

 

Wiring the lock up is pretty easy without the kit. You need to install a vaccuum switch and some wiring. There's a post somewhere that gives part numbers and instructions.

What model MSD distributor did you get? I wasn't aware that there was an electronic version available from MSD. I've been toying with the idea of putting something shiny in there. Shiny is good.

Edit: Saw you listed the 8366 up top. Cool.

 

Yeah its the 8366...if your interested in it let me know...I would take $215 for it shipped. Of course its brand new...hell its so new its not even gotten here yet. I sell a ton of stuff on ebay so I can show you my feedback and all.

And your right....shiny is very good!

 

Interested. Let me check around for some feedback on that model distributor and I'll get back to you.

Good luck with the vehicle. If you need anything don't hesitate to ask.

 

If you're still looking to pass along that dist, and it's complete with cap, rotor and module, send me a PM with your address.

 

Its brand new and comes with everything it comes new with...PM sent.