Revdoc

iTrader: (2)

I just completed the 165 to 730 swap in my 89 GTA yesterday. I am using PROM ARZU which is for a 91 305 A4, along with Ostrich 2.0 and a G1 adapter. I am using the Super_8dm2 ecu file that I imported into TunerPro RT and then saved as an .XDF file. I am using the AUJP 8D.bin file with the only changes made are VATS and VSS. When I finished repinning the harness I plugged it all in, hooked up a jumper between ESC wires C and E, connected a 3.9k ohm resistor from the jumper to ESC wire D, and started it up. It started but didn't want to idle, idle rpm was 500-600 and very rough. If I give it a little throttle it will idle at around 1000-1100 and it's much smoother although it still seems a little off. If I rev it it doesn't want to rev and even backfired a couple times.

I have since done all kinds of searching, swapping parts around and playing with the .bin, .xdf, and .ecu files. Nothing I do has seemed to make much difference. I have a spare 730 ECM that I tried, no difference. I also have a spare PROM number AXXB which is also for a 91 305 A4 and I have swapped it in, no improvement. In fact I don't seem to need the Ostrich at all, the car will start and run with either PROM inserted directly. This baffles me as I thought I had to disable VATS to even get the car to crank.

I have checked all cylinders with a timing light to ensure they're getting spark. That's how rough this thing runs, it acts like it is running on 6 or 7 cylinders instead of 8. ALDL data looks good, except my TPS is showing .73 volts when closed instead of .53. MAP is 99-100 when the car is off, key on, it never goes below 50 or so. The only trouble code I've gotten is 51, which has appeared sporadically twice after swapping ECMs and PROMs several times. I have played with the injector constant while the car is running and I can watch the pulsewidth change as I change the injector size, so I know the Ostrich is doing something. I just thought it would run better than this on the AUJP bin. The car is stock except for an AFPR set at 48 psi, SLP runners, CAI, and catback exhaust.

Maybe I just need to tune my idle tables a lot, I don't know. I thought the stock AUJP bin would run better than this. Attached is a log file in ADL format, you will have to unzip it first. If anyone wants to take a look at it and give any advice it would be much appreciated.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Be sure you get the SES light to flash when you first turn the key on.
That will indicate you are running from the chip and not in limp mode. (code 51)
If you are in limp it would run pretty bad.
See why the TPS volts are so high and get that adjusted if you can.
I'm not sure why all the jumpers at the ESC (might be needed for that swap, I'm just not familiar with the particulars) All of the ESC is contained in the ECM with the 730 so that all may just be to get the wires to go where needed.
Double check that and confirm all the sensors are reading correct ranges like coolant temps and air temps.
Reset timing to 6* as those stock bins would be.
Check the plug wires to be sure they are installed correctly. I've made that mistake before and cost me a night of hair pulling.
You are correct that the motor should not start without VATS disabled. That's why I think you are still in limp mode. Will be rich in limp and could possibly foul the plugs.
Clean the plugs, Pull the ECM fuse to clear the codes to ensure a fresh start.
HTH

Revdoc

iTrader: (2)

I feel certain that it's in limp home mode because it never gets any worse or any better, but I don't know how to get out of it. The jumpers at the ESC are necessary per http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/ecm_swap_730/165KS.txt.

My MAT was reading low, 18.4 and stuck there but I don't think that would cause it to run so poorly. I have just now found a thread about disabling the checksum when using the Ostrich and I am going to try that out, and also check to make sure the check engine light blinks. I haven't pulled the plug wires or done anything other than repin the ECM and disconnect the MAF since it was not needed anymore. Any other ways to know if you are in limp home mode or not?

I played around with disconnecting and reconnecting the Xtreme ALDL and Ostrich and I finally got the SES light to blink once when turning the key forward, I then started the car and it ran just like always, very rough and it took ~5-10% throttle to keep it running. I adjusted the fuel injector constant and watched the O2 voltage change, so I think the Ostrich is working, but it runs so terribly I can't help but think something is wrong. I can also watch the O2 volts swing from .8-.9 to .0-.1 and back, so long as there is a little throttle to keep it going.

gta324

basic question but

are you using correct memcal?

Revdoc

iTrader: (2)

I am using a memcal from a 305 TPI A4 and I have a 350 TPI A4. So no, I am not using the correct memcal but from what I have researched as long as it is a V8 memcal it should be okay. I really wish I had a stock 350 memcal because if I am in limp home mode all the time the 350 memcal limp home mode should run better for me than the 305 limp home mode.

165 to 730 wiring question: I used the existing MAF wiring to get the MAP +5 ref voltage and MAP Sensor wires from the ECM to the engine bay. I just cut the plug off my MAF and soldered on a MAP plug. The only thing I didn't bring from the ECM is the MAP ground, pin BB6. I looked at the MAF plug and it had a blk/wht wire which is usually ground, so I just used it. So instead of leaving the ECM with BB6 unhooked, I just spliced it into BA12 which is Sys Gnd. Is this okay? I figured a ground is a ground, and my MAP sensor seems to read correctly but just looking for confirmation that this is okay?

gta324

should be ok.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

That's the problem if you didn't have $AA in the mask ID.
Will go to limp as soon as you change anything.
The rest sounds like you have a good handle on it.

Revdoc

iTrader: (2)

Well, I now have the box checked and it is AA and 04, I have read AA and 08 is correct also but don't know which one to use.

If it was in limp home mode, would the changes made in the Ostrich affect anything?

Today with a fresh outlook on things and after a night of searching and reading threads here, I may have made progress. The car now reliably will blink the SES light when you turn on the key, so I know it is reading from the Ostrich/PROM. I turned up the idle in the Ostrich and now it idles at around 800 RPM without any throttle input. It is still rough, though, to the point that you can see the hood shake. I also changed the timing and watched the ALDL data change and also heard the engine idle change slightly so I know the changes I make with the Ostrich are having an effect.

The weirdest part is that it will start and run with any chip in the ECM. ARZU, AXXB, Ostrich + ARZU, Ostrich + AXXB, it doesn't seem to make any difference in how the car starts. I even loaded up a stock AUJP bin without disabling VATS and the car started right up. Hell, I started the car, went into the .bin and checked the box for option 16 bit 4 VATS enable and clicked "update", then turned the car off and started it right back up.

I guess I need to look into why the VATS isn't working, I have read several threads on here saying if VATS doesn't work then the car won't run correctly, then other threads stating if VATS doesn't work then the car won't start period.

Examples:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...ing-rough.html


The only other diagnostic info I can give is that the car smells like it's running rich. It's not putting out clouds of black smoke or anything, but you can smell fuel in the air after it has been running. This goes along with the fact that it backfires if you rev it too much.

Fake edit: just was reading a thread about the injectors not firing, and saw that there are 2 injector fuses in the fuse box. I unplugged fuse labeled INJ1 and it wouldn't start. Plugged it back in, unplugged fuse labeled INJ2/FP and it started and ran just like it did with the fuse in. Now I suspect my injector wiring isn't right when I repinned the harness. Will update soon with what I find.

Revdoc

iTrader: (2)

IT IS FIXED!!!!! I was a dumbass and put the pin for injectors 2468 into the wrong spot on the connector when I was repinning the harness. Now that it is firing all injectors it runs like a top. Thanks for all the help, really just typing everything out helps me think it through. Hopefully this thread will be useful to someone else in the future.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Good to hear you got it squared away. As for VATs, your '89 supports it. That is why the $8D mask BINs would run. Check your ignition key for a small pellet in the shank near the hand-grasping end.

RBob.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Should be AA or 8D,
The Ostrich makes changes without updating the checksum so it throws you into code 51 (bad prom) if AA is not used.
Use AA there until you are done tuning (whenever that may be), Then save the bin so the checksum is updated with 8D and use that without any additional changes.
This will be a good indicator that all is well in the software for everyday use. If corruption occurrs and AA is in the mask ID, the code cannot determine there is an error.
The checksum is ignored with AA and IS used with any other value.
So as long as the program won't be changed, use 8D as the safety it was designed to be. Glad it was something easy

Revdoc

iTrader: (2)

Ah, what I meant is there is a second box there next to the box with AA in it, and by default that box had a 08 in it, but I read somewhere they were telling a guy with a 749 to put 04 in that box. I wasn't sure if that applied to me or if I should leave it at 08.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

08 ???
Not sure what you're referring to.
What is the address of the item with 08 in it?
...
Nevermind... I see what you are talking about.

You are looking at the address of the mask ID, it is location 8008 in the bin.
You can't change address values, just the values contained at that address.