scarbucket

iTrader: (3)

I am looking to replace the stock springs shock combo in the front with coil overs does anyone know if they make some for our cars if so brand preferences?
any input would be appreciated!

Jay_rich

iTrader: (4)

http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...dy/Suspension/


Whats the reason behind wanting to go coilover? As in Street/street/auto-x? I contemplated it and ended up going with Ground-Control Weight jacks and Koni yellows after reading everyones opinions.

Coilovers limit front tire size, and also add stress to the front shock towers. Depending on what kits you get they also limit how low you can lower the car without bottoming out the struts.

Jay

scarbucket

iTrader: (3)

I was going for the coil overs more for handling reasons just because I've been told the same hope you're handling a lot but I'm open to other ideas I mean I'm not opposed anything I've never heard of the ground control wait before what is that exactly?

Jay_rich

iTrader: (4)

Ground Controls weight jacks are basically the idea of Coilovers but doing it with a shorter spring in a stock location. Its more of a circle track thing. But most of the guys here that auto-x go with them over coilovers.

Here is the cheapest site, but call ground-control direct if you go this way and price match.

The picture shown shows the rear. The fronts are a different setup. If you do some searching on here you will find many pics. For some reason their site wont load up for me.

http://www.sparktecmotorsports.com/gc-2505-01.html

If you need to get a better idea search "weight jacks" Ground Control is just the brand that makes them for 82-92 fbodys.

Hope this helps.

Jay

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

Ground Control's website gives the appearance that only a pair (2) is included in their price, do you know if it's a full set or a pair? I emailed their customer service two days ago and haven't heard back.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

Gcfi only sells the complete kit ( most of the time) 400 ish bucks for the front and rear with your choice of spring rate.

Jay_rich

iTrader: (4)

Its the full set, like I said just call them. They will probably never email back. I waited like 1-2 months after a bunch of emails. Decided to call and second ring they answered and I ordered them. Cam to 430ish shipped front and rear.

Jay

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

Gotcha, guess I never got the response PM from you. I think I'm going to pick up a full set of Koni yellows in about two weeks and then if I don't like how it rides with the Hotchkis springs that are currently on it, I'm going to get the weight jacks from GC. Thanks!

Kat

iTrader: (4)

They limit tire size? I've been running 274/40/17's on my vert for 7 years now with Steve's coil over kit

plum92_camaro

i also got GCWJ and koni yellows based on HOURS of reading on this site. i wanted my suspension to be AutoX/RR ready but still street able. I looked at coil overs for a while but decided against them for the same reasons as jay_rich.

yep, full set of 4 springs and adjusters. Mine were $499 at my door. if you have a 3rd or 4th gen differential matters to whether you need the slash cut rear adjuster or not. GC aren't real good about getting back to you. They have a good product and will take care of the customer but for some reason you have to contact them.

plum92_camaro

Could you post some pics that show tire to strut clearance and pics showing stance? After all the things i've read about coilovers on our cars i'm always curious to here about the few success stories. Do you track you car?

You have to admit you couldn't fit 315's like pablo with coil overs.

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

Hmm, not sure what I would need then...I have a Ford 8.8 but I believe the spring perches were from a 3rd gen 10 bolt. Not positive though.

plum92_camaro

Took me a little bit to find it but this is one of the MANY threads i read when doing my research for my suspension.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...gc-weight.html

Here is a picture of mine slash cut by Ground Control.
[IMG][/IMG]

I feel like i've hijacked this thread.

SORRY scarbucket!

scarbucket

iTrader: (3)

Hey its all good guys I enjoy reading all this stuff anyway I learn stuff for you guys post like this so I'm not too worried about it keep talking if you want

Kat

iTrader: (4)

I wouldn't want to fit 315's anyways. The roads around Philadelphia are crap. I'm pretty sure that you could with the right adapters/spacers. Nope don't road track the car and the last time I was at a drag strip, they told me come back with a roll bar. 111.50-11.80's in a vert is a big no no. haha

Anyways, here is the stance



Umm dont mind the wheel wells. I need to detail them again. It has been a few years since I've done it. Been messing around with my 04 GTO to much.



and the height of the clearance around the tire. Its about 1.25"

plum92_camaro

Damn, thats hot!! Are those tombstones all the mustangs that tried their luck against ya?

Looks really good, with good clearance. I just got the same wheels on my donor car. What spacers are you using? What brakes do you have? No rubbing?

I still wonder about the strength of the strut towers under autoX/RR conditions with a coil over set up. I don't know pesonally but I read enough to scare me away from coilovers to weight jacks.

Kat

iTrader: (4)

I've had the coil overs since April 06. Prolly have a total of 40k on them now. I've driven the car all over the place, Florida and back (2500 ish mile trip), back and forth to work everyday, fun runs, drag raced the **** outta the car. Im sure that I've treated the car worse than you'd see on a auto x course on the street.

The worst problems that I've had was when I went to the QA1 struts and blew two sets of them out and went back to Koni's. Other than that, everything has been great.

plum92_camaro

A lot of drag racers on this site use coil overs. they also can run tublular k-members that wouldn't survive AutoX/RR. Drag racing and AutoX/RR are apples and oranges.

scarbucket

iTrader: (3)

I love the stance those give the car any suggestions on a good kit oh and btw what is that paint code gonna have her sent in prolly in ap or may for the paint job once i finish block sanding her and getting the cowl hood and fender flairs done

Kat

iTrader: (4)

Thats the thing, I have Spohn's, coil over tube k member also in the car along with the a-arms. I've hit plenty of pot holes, **** roads cut 1.5 60's and just recently took it off for a stock one so I can get it re powder coated and try out a pro kit. It looks almost exactly the same as it did when I put it in there 6 years ago. With my abuse on the car it has held up just fine. Even after putting the rear of the car into a wall coming home from the track one night... :/ Apparently rain and drag radials don't mix. haha


plum92_camaro

The color is Copperhead Metallic from PPG. When I was painting the car I saw a episode of Trucks when he was hosting it and he just got done the 68?!? C10 truck that he had Kevin Tetz paint.

http://staceydavid.com/projects/copperhead

The mix is on the page.

As for a coil over kit. Spohn's with whatever spring rate you think ya want. I had the 325 lb's and it was too much for me (no AC, AL heads, stripped of unnecessary weight blah blah) and put in a set of 275lb springs. They are perfect for what "I" want.

Shocks/Struts Koni Yellow's.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Compared to weight jacks, for road race/autocross type scenarios Im not really seeing the advantage of coil overs. The ride quality will probably be a little nicer, but there's no way that strut tower is as strong as the k-member. Maybe with a beefy strut tower brace, maybe it'd be okay...

But like I said, there's not much real advantage to it. The strut towers are made of flimsy stamped metal on flimsy stamped fender wells with a little flimsy stamped cap on it. Weight jacks will accomplish exactly the same thing while preserving the factory layout, putting all the loads into places they were designed to go.

The strut tower is designed to take "vertical" loads from the strut that does nothing more than dampen spring oscillation. The amount of force put into the strut tower, that GM designed it for, are nowhere near what you're going to see with coilovers, and the strut has a lot more leverage on the spring so even the full damping force on the spring isn't nearly as high as the actual force the spring is exerting.

GM specifically moved the springs to their new location. That's why they call these "modified mcpherson strut" cars. That's what's "modified" about them. They specifically removed the springs to put them farther inboard to rest against the k-member. This is partially because then you would be able to install the engine and front suspension from underneath the car. The manufacturing process simplifies itself. But in the process I've got no doubt that they designed the strut mount area to bear the forces of the strut pulling and pushing on it, not the weight of the whole front of the car.

For a drag car I think it's a great idea, for a street/road race/autocross car I think if you had more people using them you'd start seeing a lot more failures. Although to be fair the kinds of "failures" we're talking about here are rarely going to be springs flying through the hood. It's probably going to be more of a chassis rigidity issue in relation to suspension components. The strut towers are going to be moving around in high-g situations and they'll likely revert right back to where they were when you check them in a static situation. For a while at least. But the more they flex and move the more easily they will move. I think it's a safety issue, but I think from a performance standpoint the decrease in unsprung weight is counteracted by the decrease in rigidity of critical suspension mounting points.

Most of the American Iron or NASA Camaro/Mustang Challenge guys dont bother with coilovers. Very few on here have. Weight jacks are far, far more common.

paul_huryk

Per the rulebook, CMC cars are not allowed coil overs, AI can if they want to.

Coilovers on a 3rd gen allow one to run a lower spring rate compared to a spring in pocket OEM arrangement. There is some reduction in weight, which can be maximized by using front tubular control arms without spring pockets.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

...not to mention the bearings for turning.

It's a good idea to add a plate under front towers and the rear shock mount, just for good measure. I did go with rear coil-overs - NOT fronts.

scarbucket

iTrader: (3)

ok I just basically wanna get rid of the rake so if i run rear coils that should bump down my ride height enough

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Application, application, application...
Coil-overs in rear to get rid of rake is one way, and gives continuous easy ongoing adj.
If just getting rid of rake, cut coils - cheaper, easier, one afternoon. If you need to "get it just right," doing this in the rear is not as bad as the front.

Weight jacks in front and coil-overs in rear gives you continuous, easy adjustment. If your goal is to learn, adjust, and improve - go this route up front, and you'll never regret it.
If your goal is "just basically wanna..." - cut the springs.

scarbucket

iTrader: (3)

Ok I think I will flip that root then

Sojer

Is there any failures with front coil overs? My car will see street time but its a drag car. I can add some extra welds on the strut towers. With a block that weighs 216 lbs (lq4) i want to remove as much weight as possible.

lyrikz74

Im looking for a streetable xcross setup. If you don't mind me asking, what weights did you go with??

plum92_camaro

I went with 850 fronts and 250 rears on Ground Controls recommendation. the 250 rears are to compensate for the added weight of my stereo. I have not installed the rears yet. After 2 years I want to get higher rates (900 or 1000) in the front but i'm going to wait and see how it does with the LS1 I bought. A stiffer sway bar might be a better option for me because its roll i want to reduce.

Hope this helps. My complete setup is listed in my vB garage.

plum92_camaro

There are street cars and drag cars with coil overs. Go for it.
I just don't recommend coil overs for autoX/road racing. The big dogs of autoX/road racing on here don't use coil overs.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

I was also looking at coil overs as I'm swapping to a race craft moly.K-member. Race craft has a $300 kit for coil overs with springs. I was piecing together my own front weight jack system with AFCO parts and I was around $300-350 without shipping but that included coil springs for the front and rear.

Coil overs are easy to install but as stated.put alot of stress on the towers. I already fully TIG welded the strut towers for added strength. It's an option. But for a daily driver I wonder if the coil overs is a bad idea.

So a good question would be... are the coil overs a bad idea for a street car, as compared to an autox or drag car. My car will never be autox and rarely drag raced but it does have a 521 BBF in the engine bay.

Any suggest spring rates for coil over and weight jacks? Right now has cut moog 5664s for 2" drop and 900lb rate. Rear are 200 lb. It's too rough on the street I think.

lyrikz74

Guess the next question would be how tall do i want the spring? is there measurements i can take? We will be on a wide 18 and the kid wants the car low. My last ground controls on my honda i could drop that thing hard, and then when i took it on long trips i could raise it up fairly easy and be at a very comfortable ride height. Out of my element on these camaros.

plum92_camaro

Search users dbltke and itsmikey, they are two of the slam experts on here. Here is a link to a thread with lots of info on goin lowwww. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/auto...gens-post.html

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Did u have any problems with the spohn front coil over kit? I tried to mock one up and the support brace under the strut tower contacts the strut tower on the back side(firewall) and it won't allow it to fully seat against the underside of the tower. Also the bolt triangle bracket doesn't fit my hot part strut towers... why would spohn create a caster/camber setup that's slightly of from stock?!

Anyway I mocked it up and ride height at lowest position was close if not even with my cut moog 5664s. In the process of getting spacers for the caster/camber plates and a spring cup for the coil over spring. My hot part camber plates are 5" in DIA not the 3" like spohnS so they slop around.

Also thinking of enlarging the opening of the shock tower to accommodate more adjustment.

What about a shorter spring and a spacer off the caster plate with a spring cup so the spring is lower than the tower opening allowing full adjustment. But now that I think of it the top of the strut is awfully close to the tower opening.