Big&BadGTA

iTrader: (1)

This is a pretty cool video comparing different intake designs

this guy has always liked extrude Hone, even 30 years ago when he used it on his Mustang which he campaigned. Pretty interesting results in this video

Whitebird75

It's amazing what just a change in intake runner length can do to a power curve. I would argue that, with the right cam, the TPIS long runner setup would have made over 550 Lb-Ft of torque. All of this in just a little 10:1 383!

aliceempire

iTrader: (14)

This was all stuff he did long ago. We've discussed it back then but it's nice to see a video and have his commentary attached.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...feb-super.html

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Came here to post this video.

But I am so disappointed with the fact that they are running a 383 with AFRs. This is extremely uncommon.

It would really be better for someone to test this on stock long block as that is what MOST people are running.

Big&BadGTA

iTrader: (1)

I ran a 383 with AFR heads. It was common to me, every day. Ran a JL-1 (SuperRam) back then. Looked cool, delivered results. Might go big runners from AZ Speed and Marine, then extrude hone a big base and port the plenum, if to do it over again.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

383 with AFRs are the most common combo when this article came out. Besides the twisted wedge trick flows at the time. Afrs were the go to head.

BadSS

The problem I see with it having AFR heads is when the article was originally published in 2005 it was reported to have Trick Flow heads (pictures appear to be TFS).

Regardless,,, Air Flow, Trick Flow, or Mo Flow, it is still a good comparison of what the different intakes can do on the same engine. Would have been nice if he would have used the same sized TB though.

someone972

iTrader: (2)

Wish they would have also included a FIRST TPI intake, since that is the most radically different from stock that still has the longer runners and TPI look.

Big&BadGTA

iTrader: (1)

I tgink I’ve got an old Car Craft which tested that one, compared to stock.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Correct me if I'm wrong. Didnt you have or still have an ss with a Stealth ram 383?

Whitebird75

I believe this was ran on a 383 for three reasons. 1: This particular 383 was available at the time and easy to use. 2: It allowed the larger intakes to breath easier, thus showing a larger difference in power. (This was for a magazine article, so big numbers= big advertisement numbers. IE: +75 Horsepower with 1 intake swap!) 3: While an aluminum headed 383 might not be a starting point for most people, it is not out of the realm of typical street car builds.

I would concur that a similar shift in power would appear in a stock L98 engine, abet it might be skewed in favor of the stock style (long runner) design due to cam selection and limited flow of stock heads.

I concur. I would love to see the FIRST TPI tested back to back with the TPIS ported intake and the stock intake. It appears the TPIS long runner intake is no longer available, so maybe the FIRST is a better replacement?

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

I whole heartedly agree with the first statement. 383 was the cat's *** around the time this article came out. Very few devled into the 400 block tpi stuff and if then it was bowtie blocks and super ram or minirams.. Now with the Dart shp and all the LS hype there is really no reason to build a 383 anymore if staying tradition sbc. It all 4.125 bore and up. Just the progression of things. The 195 AFR used a 1205 gasket around this time. Which most of those intake were 1204 or port matched to 1205. I do want to see the First intake in the mix. It just basically the TPI on steroids. Kind of like what can we do to max out this design and that's that. I think Ken is a member here maybe someone can reach out to him and get some flow numbers and dynos. There has to be some kind of data base on this intake seeing it's been out a few decades.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Would have been a serious "feature from the future" at that time... that intake wasn't invented until at least 10 years after the 2005 publication date.

Those pesky details always mess up a good complaint.

BadSS

I'm the original owner of an 85 Monte Carlo SS. It has had a couple carbed 406s in it but no 383 with HSR. It's been setting up for about 20-years with me working on a frame-on restoration here and there for the last 10-years or so (unexpected life issues happen). I do have the new 406 built for it and will be converting it to EFI (mostly completed) to run a fully ported and siamesed runner FIRST. Hopefully I will have it all back together and painted in a year or so.

What you may be thinking about is the 355 IROC I built in 2002 for the wife. I was one of the first to do a tech article on the StealthRam back in 2003 for GMHTP. They later republished the article in Super Chevy and they have Part 2 on their website.
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/030...third-gen-iroc

Here's what they left out of the online article, which is the real meat and potatoes

Not long after doing the HSR article, I tried to sell GMHTP on the idea of a FIRST intake article like I did with the HSR. I was going to do the swap anyway and was hoping I might be able to recoup some cash. They wouldn't commit to the article until I did the installation and reported the results. Once I did, they declined - I wasn't going to do any dyno testing unless they planned on paying me, so there is none for the FIRST. This is entirely my opinion based on what feedback I received and what little experience I have with magazine companies. Basically I believe since the company (FFI) was not an affiliated advertiser and the results were so close to the HSR that they felt like it might cause issues with those that were (Holley).

Anyway, no dyno numbers but solid track data on the three intakes (best results in similar conditions)

TPI / SLP Intake (fully ported GM base and ported SLP runners to the 1/2 way point)
(7/20/02) 88*F / 29.92 barometric pressure / 86 percent humidity
8* initial timing, VERY heavy burnout, foot brake off idle, staggered throttle launch (pumping the gas well past the 60ft mark), 5,500/5,500 shifts. Practically impossible to launch with the base timing at 10-degrees – dropped timing 8* to help hooking, 6-degrees helped 60ft, but really killed MPH
60ft------ 1/8 ET -----MPH ------ 1/4 ET ----- MPH
1.873 --- 8.268 ----- 83.94 ---- 12.953 --- 104.40

Holley StealthRam (minor clean-up, rolled the top edges on the base intake)
(8/10/02) 85*F / 29.92 barometric pressure / 89 percent humidity
16* timing, 46 psi fuel, 20 psi tires, heavy burnout, foot-brake 1,800 rpm – full throttle launch with heavy burnout, 6400/6200 rpm shifts. A blind monkey could launch the car after a decent burnout,,, no traction problems.
60ft------ 1/8 ET -----MPH ------ 1/4 ET ----- MPH
1.803 --- 8.133----- 86.27 ---- 12.673 --- 107.84

FIRST (box stock, even used the older gasket that overlapped the runners)
(4/9/05) 83*F / 29.92 barometric pressure / 84 percent humidity
10* timing, 42 psi fuel, 20 psi tires, heavy burnout, foot-brake 1800 rpm, near full throttle launch, moderate traction problems
60ft------ 1/8 ET -----MPH ------ 1/4 ET ----- MPH
1.707 --- 7.992 ----- 85.53 ---- 12.599 --- 106.70

I did a TON or porting on the stock base (it was getting pretty thin in spots) and the SLP runners were siamesed to a little less than the halfway point. They were ported as much as possible without cutting open and welding. I went so far as to take the runners on and off the car and take 1/2" at a time off the runner length until the ETs and MPH leveled off.

That TPI/SLP intake combo was as "tuned" for that combination as it could possibly be and the box stock FIRST was almost 4-tenths faster. In fairness to the TPI/SLP combo, it was VERY traction limited and I had to take timing out of it to get a decent ET. The FIRST wasn't as traction limited and would 60ft a lot better. Neither had a custom chip and both would have benefited. Still, there's no question that the FIRST was and is considerably better and more cost effective (you couldn't pay me enough to port another stock TPI intake like l did this TPI/SLP combo).

The FIRST ran fractional quicker than the HSR, but the HSR trapped fractionally higher. The throttle response was considerably better with the FIRST and overall I liked the FIRST a lot better than the HSR on this mild to moderate 355 with TH350 combo. In fairness, the more cam, more gearing, and more stall speed a car has it will favor the HSR (short/shorter runner), especially the 5 and 6 speed cars. Either can work "better" than the other depending on the combination.

HTH

BadSS

Actually the intake was built and designed by Air Sensor out of Seattle, Washington in the mid-late 80s. Their EFI product line was called "Fuel Injection Research and Systems Technology (F.I.R.S.T)". The F.I.R.S.T. product line included a "flagship" Tuned Port Induction (TPI) system. Hence the reason “FIRST” is cast on the plenum and “TPI” is cast on the throttle body block-off plate (on the side if front mounting the throttle body).

AirSensors sold the FIRST TPI intake rights to Electromotive, which they marketed as their "Individual Runner System (IRS)" - they ground off the F and the T from the plenum. They did well in the few dyno shoot-outs they were included in back in the late 80s and early 90s. I REALLY wanted one back then, but they were around $3000 with the electronics and neither wouldn’t sell the intake system by itself. Only the rich dudes could afford them and that's part of the reason most knew little to nothing about them back then.

Thankfully Ken was able to buy the casting rights from Electromotive years later and started First Fuel Injections (in 2000), selling the intakes with and without electronics. So, the intake has been around for a while under one name or the other.

Big&BadGTA

iTrader: (1)

Interesting history, and why the intake has been "around" forever!

aliceempire

iTrader: (14)

I believe the Vector W8 used the FIRST as well, which clearly predates the article.

Big&BadGTA

iTrader: (1)

The Vector, not sure of the model, but from the 1990 era, was slated to use the Callaway Twin Turbo V8 w/ TPI. Sadly, it did not.

BadSS

It did. Here's a link to a thread with a video of a late 80s one - engine video starts at 28:37
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/alte...ke-625-hp.html

my hemi

No dyno numbers as of yet real world numbers tho

383 with ported and polished 113 heads,lpe219 cam,1.6 RR's , first performance intake, 36 lb injectors, holley hp efi system, built 700r4 2600 stall convertor s60 dana rear 3.54s race weight guessing 3500 lbs haven't weighed it since this new setup.. car is on a set of nitto 555rs which really didnt hook..here are the ETs

I think there is more in this combo considering it was my wifes 1st time out with the new setup and it shifted at stock shift points...

Big&BadGTA

iTrader: (1)

My 383 in the GTA w/ 3.27 gears, ran 12.2@115 in the 1/4 mile on BFG TA tires. 245/45/16. It had the JL-1/SuperRam intake and AFR 195 heads, and an LPE 219/219 cam + 1.6RRs. I hope your car has more in it. Keep at it.

my hemi

Thanks I think it has a few more tenths In it..mph no clue why it's not higher.. we didnt shift the car it was shifting at the stock shift points..maybe that has something to do with it.. I know wot timing and wot air fuel I messed with I need to data log to see if i can improve it there..and honestly I think the motor isnt broken in yet. Lol has less then 500 miles on it..I thought it did well for its 1st passes ...