gpwasr10

So, I bought an allegedly "complete" Dual Gate 2 for my car from thepartsplaceinc. It showed up missing a Cable Bracket, missing all of the bolts, missing all of the clip on U-nuts and single J-nut and came with... what seems to be... a 5 foot long shift cable (to replace the 2 footer that came in the car stock). Also, it seems that the rear bracket needs to be bent (a lot) to work correctly as well. The website also said that you MIGHT need to also buy the correct little shifter arm to mount on the tranny. But in reality this part (PN #1050080) is anything but optional.

Now, from what I can see the shift cable actually looks like it's the right one (PN #500 0025). That said, I have NO idea how to run it as the instructions don't make any sense. Does anyone have one of these that can show/tell me how they ran it under the car? I destroyed the first cable trying to run it over the top of the tranny and overnight-ed another one.

I am sure disappointed right now as this thing was over $500 bucks.

As it sits, I feel that I should have just bought the damn B&M Megashifter. SMFH

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Why not return it ?

paulo57509

I have an original Dual Gate II that's in the box. It has no replacement cable(s). IIRC, it was designed to use the existing shift and column lock cable. I don't know why the "kit" you have would include a cable. Unless the design changed some time after I got mine.

Let me know and I'll dig it out and take a look at it and report back on your missing pieces and hardware.

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

It sounds like you bought the UNIVERSAL dual-gate shifter - not the one to fit the 3rd gen Camaro.

gpwasr10

Oh, it changed. It had to have. There is zero chance of the stock cable reaching the bracket on this unit, it was the first thing I checked. It's also a specific step in the instructions, which are original and describe how this cable is supposed to wrap around the rear of the tranny. See Page 2 Step 3.

It does use the stock column lock cable though. The one I have matches the diagrams here EXACTLY, it's the one for our cars.

https://www.shifterdoc.com/Hurst_292...nstuctions.PDF

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Sell it. Cut your losses. It's a total POS anyway; consider yourself lucky that you narrowly avoided a seriously disappointing fate. Let some "greater fool" enjoy that.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Hurst purged a ton of stuff several years ago during one of the reorganizations they went thru. Seems like they were 'consolidated' into B&M. Sounds kinda like someone went dumpster diving and put together a half-*** kit from leftover parts and charged you a premium for it. Thank god it's Ebay, you can get your money back.

gpwasr10

I am at least going to try... foolish as it may be. lol

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Don't.

Unless of course, you like spending $$$$$ on other "special" misc parts over and over again trying to make it "fit" until you accidentally come up with something that "works" sometimes but breaks randomly, hacking up your car in unrecoverable ways that you can't undo, and shifting into N or even R at WOT in the heat of the moment.

Sell it while it's still NIB. The Greater Fool will pay more for this "ready fire aim" weapon that he can then hurt himself with, instead of you hurting yourself.

skinny z

I purchased mine new and it was 3rd gen specific. It came with a 5 foot cable as well.
Routing for me went forward from the shifter across the top the transmission swinging around in an 180. Then another 180 as it was directed forward over the crossmember and to the shifter arm (that's a long way of saying the cable makes a complete circle from the shifter to the linkage). I didn't require any unique arm IIRC (but it's been a while and I could be mistaken. I've got no installed pics and the car is packed away in a storage locker so no recent pics.

Hey! That's my cue!! Well. at least I'm great at something...
To each their own I suppose. (I recall having this conversation before). I've found the shifter to perform very well on the street and drag racing. Never missed a shift at the track but like most things, it requires a certain touch as any new to you shifter would. Then it becomes second nature. It is limited in it's downshifting capabilities though. As in, it's not a road racing shifter.

paulo57509

Skinny Z describes the cable routing. It might help to lower the transmission temporarily.

This is no help, but comparing the installation instructions above to the one that came with mine (dated 1990), this appears to be the only difference:



I don't know why Hurst would re-design the shifter that would require replacing the cable. Unless it was prone to failure.

There are sellers on ebay that have the missing arm you might need.

Good luck.

skinny z

I DO have this however...

Chopski

iTrader: (1)

I've seen you rant about these before. Mine works perfectly fine. Not sure why you think they suck but the stock piece is absolute garbage. I can take it back to stock anytime too. Nothing is hacked up to make it work unless you consider cutting the shift plate in half a game changer...

Drew

iTrader: (58)

and Billy Mays, ***** mouth, etc... I get it, you like your marketing gimmick retard shifter. Some of us would trade a dozen of the dippy things for that sweet sweet 500 negotiable US dollars. That $500 would buy a ton of PEZ despensers that are mildly less retarded than a Hurst Dual gate... Just think of the possibilities!

skinny z

Questions: Do you drag race? If you do, do you race an automatic? If yes, what's your shifter of choice? And have you tried a dual gate and compared to other shifters?
If no, then what do you base your retard comment on?

Chopski

iTrader: (1)

I find it funny that people worry about how others spend their money. Putting someone down because they think they are better than another person. Get a life.

Back to the subject. The shifter is a pain to install. I bought mine used and it was in excellent shape. Mine was missing the bracket for the reverse lockout but I just fabed one up. I suggest you bolt the bottom half down and then the rest. I had a hard time also with the cable adjustment. Had to drill hole in the supplied shift linkage so it was a shorter throw. It would not get both park and first gear until I did that. I could get 1st gear or park but not both. Oh and the ashtray is too deep so you won't be able to use it until you cut it down.

Again mine works fine. The other option that looks like it could be factory is the Mega shifter and that thing sucks but that is my opinion. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. We are here to help each other not kick each other.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

If that's the case, you may want to refrain from insulting the stock shifter that plenty of us use. LOL

I base my comment on context. My comments were in direct response to the post I quoted. I was pointing out the irony of people getting upset about people commenting on a shifter while they are doing the exact same thing towards the stock shifter. The irony made me chuckle.

skinny z

Fair enough Drew. But I can say having raced both, the aftermarket version is far superior with respect to upshifting at the drag strip. Are there better. From what I've read, maybe. Personally I'd like to have a sequential style shifter. Push forward for each gear up. Pull back for each gear down.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I've always felt it was better to leave the shifter in 3rd and let the trans make the decisions, but I don't spend much time racing. I would imagine if a person were racing seriously, they'd want something better than the Hurst. Realistically, the dual gate shifter is akin to the chrome barefoot gas pedal and 8-ball lock *****. Sure it has a real purpose but the vast majority want one because it "looks cool" more than any real world benefit.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

And Cragars and lakes pipes and hood pins and...

Pretty much the way I feel about it. It's been nothing but a playpretty eye-candy gewgaw for people easily distracted by shiny things since it came out in the Olds 442 and the GTO, as the "his 'n' hers" shifter. Hasn't improved any in the 55 years or so gone by since then. In the late 60s people were blowing up their motors when they shifted from 2 to D a little too enthusiastically; they still were last time anybody I knew had one, which was the early 80s. Most everybody at that time had figured out that it wasn't a "performance" item, it was just too weenie for that. I guess the old learnings have been lost, and the current generation has to re-learn it all over again, the hard way. Not even seeing it on the Internet convinces them.

Not that the stock one in these cars is any better than that other STOCK one you have in your hand. IMO that's always been one of the weaknesses of automatic transmissions, is the lack of common sense applied to the control system (shifter). The Megashifter is probably one of the best street ones, functionally; but a total nightmare to install like any other, and utt bucking fugly to boot. Frankly I don't know of any shifter I could point you toward that checks EVERY box: they're all deficient in one way or another.

Sell it. It isn't an "upgrade". You don't need the headache.

skinny z

gpwasr10.
To the OP. PM sent.

skinny z

I never thought of it as a cool factor really. It appears fairly innocuous when you're looking through the window.
As for bare foot gas pedals and 8-ball door locks....no thanks. I DO however a REAL 8 ball that I've thought about screwing onto to the top of my Dual Gate...

Like I said, it isn't exactly a piece of jewelry. But maybe I'm kind of used to it.
As for performance, I have no issues as you are aware.
It certainly IS better than the stocker. Any stocker for that matter. But then again I used a Hurst "Indymatic" as a substitute in my '68. THAT one went from 2nd to neutral at WOT and that was that. Goodbye TH400. But that was at that time.
I'm still looking for the "Holy Grail" of shifters myself.
Hang on...you don't like Cragars??


I may actually seen this car on some tour through Canada in the 60's.

Look! Cragars and a Hurst shifter!

gpwasr10

Welp, you were right, bud.

Whoever came up with the "idea" to swap out the F-Body's 2 foot-ish cable with a 5 foot cable should be drug out into the street and shot like an animal. I cannot imagine a dumber solution to this issue. Who not just make one that was... you know.. CLOSE to the same length? It's a neat product layed low by the dumbest idea in history.

So, for now, I will have to buy another stock shifter cable (****ed mine up taking it out of the trans bracket) and put it back to stock. I am sorta bummed TBH.

Any-who, I did "discover" that one of my trans pan bolts is completely stripped out. I think I am doing a Manual Swap.

How shitty is it to have a T56 with the stock rear end gears though?

Drew

iTrader: (58)

A helicoil or shove a paperclip in the hole before you start the bolt is cheaper then a trans swap.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Yup, Heli-coil fixes stripped bolt holes right up.

Back in the mid 60s, the VERY FIRST INSTRUCTION in the Chrysler FSM 904/727 auto trans section, after tear-down and cleanup, was "Heli-coil all bolt holes in the case". 55 years later it's still good advice.

Maybe there's money to be made in coming up with an auto shifter that (a) fits the interior of a car, ANY car; (b) functions properly, as in, moves the trans linkage the right distance in between detents; (c) replaces the stock cable system with something that fits the car, ANY car, and is MORE robust than stock, rather than LESS; (d) addresses the weaknesses of stock shifters, including the possibility of overshooting the intended gear due to weak latches and detents; and (e) isn't so garishly blindingly revoltingly ugly, but rather, somewhat matches the "look" of a modern car interior, instead of … Megashifter, which to me, looks like all those fanciful skull-inspired chrome things that people put on bikes in various places. Sorry, it's just not "me". YOMV.

The overdrive gear in the T-56 is .50:1. That means, if you have 4.10 gears in the rear, it's the equivalent of having a 1:1 trans such as a Turbo 350 or 400, PG, 4-speed, etc., and a 2.05 rear gear. Which in turn means, if your gears are any less than 3.73, 6th gear is all but useless. Similarly, 1st gear is 2.5x, as compared to, say, the 700-R4 1st gear which is 3.1x or thereabouts; which means that taking off from a stop with a T-56 and 3.42 gears is about the same drive ratio as a 700 and 2.73 gears. The T-56 and 2.73 gears would give a final drive ratio close to a 700 and 2.21 rears. I don't think a clutch could withstand much of that for very long of rush-hour traffic. Not hard to figure out overall then, that to truly take advantage of the T-56, it needs more rear gear than might be considered "normal" with many other transmissions.

Skinny, no I don't have any trouble with Cragars on a 60s car, especially not in a nostalgia setting; after all, they were pretty much the order of the day, back then; but that's not the same as feeling obligated to put them on every car I own. I find the "research" idea on the side of the car humorous though. But maybe there's more under the skin than the stickers say.

Sometimes being right isn't much fun. I hate to be a wet blanket on somebody else's plans, but I guess I just have too much experience to stand by and watch somebody do something that's the pain equivalent of buying a vise with their own hard-earned cash, sticking their fingers in it, and tightening the handle with the other hand, then wondering what they did wrong and why it hurts.

Longer02

You're correct. No reason to manually shift an automatic valve body. Throw it in Drive and let it eat.

And that dual gate shifter is trash.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

It takes a strong sense of honor to admit a mistake , kudos to you for saying "you were right" to Sofa .

So many people come here , ask a question , and then when they don't like the answer they get they attack the person who tried to help them . It's great to see that there are people like you here , people who own up to a mistake , learn from it , and make their car all the better for the knowledge they've gained in the process ....

gpwasr10

Well, to be clear, my initial thought was to do a manual swap. But I thought I would give one of these wizbang shifters a try.

This one LOOKED like it was designed for our cars but that turned out to be a bit of ****.

The bolt thing was just another thing that pissed me off lol

Drew

iTrader: (58)

There's nothing wrong with a manual swap either. If you want to shift gears that's the way to go.

gpwasr10

Nice Romy, my namesake! I just built this...

underdave

I bought one of those kits years ago from the parts place when they were much cheaper than that. I still have yet to install it, 2 third gens later. After hearing about all the issues with the kit missing parts and the fact that I have a Firebird (which it's technically only supposed to fit the Camaro console) I'll probably just sell it and get a Megashifter. I don't care about other people's opinions of the Dual Gate's performance, I have a buddy that had one and I thought it was badass. Install may just be more trouble than it's worth, especially since the console would have to be fabbed up.

gpwasr10

So... I found the exact same cable in a 3' length.. I may try that...

gpwasr10

Three words for you guys....

Piece
of
****

As I was installing it the rivets started popping out. The ****ing rivets.
Do not buy one of these from these *******s. These are shifters garbage. This one is going with me to the shooting range. I am awaiting the original shifter Linkage from Hawks. This was a huge 800.00 mistake that (God Willing) no one else will ever suffer.

skinny z

Sorry to hear that gpwasr10. Mine has performed flawlessly for more than a decade. Makes me wonder what you bought in the first place.

paulo57509

Moot point....

Those Parts Place "kits' are put together from surplus parts. I wonder if the individual parts were put together (riveted) by them and not Hurst? This could explain the crap QC.

84 z28

Same here

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Brutal. Kill it with fire.

paulo57509

BDH....Mine is still in the box too. I bought mine from an ebay seller. I think I paid around $135 shipped. There's a Year One sticker on the box but I didn't buy it from them. Maybe some day I'll come across a GTO style stick I can use to change the look. Obviously, I'm in no hurry. This thing has been collecting dust at least since the turn of the century.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...tml#post805507

gpwasr10

I am sure the originals are great. I Mean they look awesome in the cars I have seen them in.

ut this thing was a **** show. It was missing all of the bolt clips, the shift *** was the wrong thread pitch, the rivets started popping out (And trust me when I tell you that I babied this thing), the rear bracket was not the right shape (And was painted a different gloss from the shifter) and even after careful bending did not line up. I am in shock that anyone would sell this... I also found a post on here from someone else who bought one from these jokers and had the same issue.

I did send them an email and their reply was "Send us pictures so we can ask the manufacturer for replacements.".. like they expect me not to know that Hurst is no longer in business and they lapped this nonsense together?

Good news though, I was able to modify my original shifter cable to accept one of the C-Clips from the Hurst kit and get her all back together. Also the shift plate I modified crewed in without a fuss so the Rock is back in action. Fortunately I am in a situation where can afford things like this... but my heart goes out to those who this would have really ****ed over.

Anyways, I am now looking to go back to buying a T56 Kit from Hawks having my local guy do a full Swap. Or maybe a Tremec TKO? I just know that if I do that I will also have to do the rear end.