Well, I'm kind of torn on which way to go with the intakes on my 'Bird. Some time after Thanksgiving I'm going to pull the Sportsman II heads and put on a set of new AFR 195s I've had stashed in the garage for a couple of months. I also plan to dump the little V6 hydraulic roller lifters that came in my motor and install some Comp retro-fits I have when I do this swap. I also have a Hydra Rev kit to go in at the same time.



Here's the quandry - I've got a SuperRam on the car now. They work great when you have them all sealed, etc., but are a real pain to work with and around. I've also got a converted LT-1 intake, an LT-1 MiniRam intake, and a machine-shop fresh 20 over LT-1 block on a stand.



Is there any reason to think an LT-1 block motor is any better than my current 010 hi-nickel content block? The only advantage I see is the one piece vs. two piece rear main seal. I guess being originally a roller lifter block might help, but I've got roller lifters in the current motor so that's probably no biggie. Here's the choices as I see them:



1. Re-install the SuperRam

2. Install the converted LT-1 intake

3. Convert the MiniRam intake over to AFR heads (non-LT-1)

4. Hold off doing anything to the current motor and build up the LT-1 on the stand as a stroker and install the MiniRam on it.



Thoughts? Suggestions? What kind of performance differences do you see?

 

IIRC there was a mag that did a test on superram vs converted lt-1 and they really didn see too much difference in et but I would say if your looking for more high end power go lt-1 if you looking for more midrange go superram but both are capable performers

 

I'll have to try and find that article again. If I remember right, I think it was Car Craft or Chevy High Performance. And the results were d@mn close with the SR actually beating out the LT1 or MiniRam in the 1/4 mile but like less than a tenth or so. If they're performance is so close, I may go with the LT1 just for ease of working with and around it.

 

IMO, Vern, you have a rear gear ratio that will be better suited to a smaller length intake runner. IIRC, you have a 4.10, correct?

I would go with the MiniRam on the 195's if it were up to me. Do you plan on keeping your current cam? If you want to sell some of the old parts, you can maybe even go with a bit more cam too.

I think getting rid of the Sportsman IIs is a good move. The SR would be nice with the AFRs, but, you have a bit too much rear gear for the SR.

 

Sorry for the short hijack, brutal, did you ever finish your single plane swap?

 

IM curious as well...looking at that mph in his signature. IM thinking yes!

 

Yep, I've got the Ford 9" with those high gears. Would rather have gotten 3.70's or so, but this is what I ended up with. And it is sooooo much fun!

So, what cam would you go with on this set up with either a mini or an LT1? Remember this is also a daily driver more than a race car, so I need driveability and reliability. Possibly emissions testing. 224/230?

Or what gears would you use with the SR?

Appreciate your time on this, Tom!

 

I was running a 224/232 in a 350 (SLP cam) and swapped to a XFI280, thats 230/236 and honestly I'm happier with it than the other one. Its probably on the borderline of what I would consider streetable but as you know that definition varies widely. The brakes work just fine 95% of the time (the other 5 they feel a little funny but the car still stops ok) and it idles a little rough but really not much worse than the 224 did. With 33 more CI, shouldnt be bad I wouldnt think. I havent had this combo sniffed yet, but the other one I did and with a cat, no EGR, no AIR, the HC and CO were practically nil. Did not have NOx checked.

 

Good info, thanks!

 

LT1's are also notorious for split BLMs. Probably worse than your SR.

SR is emissions legal, too. Plus, if you keep playing with it, I can learn from your work, before I install mine (could be a few years from now, whenever I get back to the states).

I'm looking for a used 383-406 shortblock, if you decide to sell it how much would you ask for it?

 

Also, Vern, the cam that madmax has mentioned would be a little more tame in your larger engine. I was just asking, because, if you were to install a higher reving intake manifold, you might want a bit more camshaft to carry you through. The cam you are currently running is not too bad for the SR. Actually it has similiar numbers to the "219" cam, except that the 219 is a single pattern cam, and was designed with the SR in mind. The gear you now have may or may not be optimial. I would guess you would be pretty close, with the MiniRam or LT1 intake. Way too much gear for the SR though. I used to always try to run 3.73s, or 4.11s, until Pete (Floorguy) suggested I try less gear, and the car responded. Less gear always worked for me, and others I know, with TPI LTR or SR setups. I guess it all depend if you want to go fast, or FEEL like you are going fast. If I were you, I would ditch the Sportsmans, go with the AFRs, keep your cam, and the SR, but go with less gear. But, if you are sick of the SR design, then go with the MiniRam, or LT1, and your 4.11s will work well with the short runners. I would think you would get some bang with the AFRs over the Sportsmans, on whatever you decide. Going too large with the cam on the SR, will make the idle very unstable, but a cam change with the SR, would not be needed anyway, IMO.

I currently run a 3.50 rear gear. With the 27" tall tires I race with, knocks the ratio down to a 3.31, IIRC. The car crosses the finish line at 5600, and that is also where I shift at through out the run as well. A little more gear might be in my future, along with the intake conversion.

About the conversion, actually, no, I did not perform the swap as of yet. The new MPH, I attained was simply by bringing the RPMs up to only 2000, as compared to the normal 3000. I usually spool up the converter, until the car wants to "push" through the lights. The car is put away for now, as I am doing some work around the house. The intake is ready to go on though. Floorguy wants to set the 700R4 up for higher RPM use. I will be installing a roll bar this winter too.

 

A few thoughts. If you go with the 280XFI cam you will want to increase your compression ratio. You will want a DCR around 8.5:1 for 91 octane. This will help your idle and low end torque among other things. I would also shoot for a quench in the .035" to .039" range. This will help with detonation and burn.

I read a lot on the LT1 forums for ideas. A lot of those guys are looking for ways to increase their runner length for more torque. If I was in your situation I would stick with the Superram or go to a Holley Stealthram.

Me, I going to keep modifying my TPI. By the way I would give serious consideration to siamesing the runners on your Stealthram. Leave a little split at the joint of the intake manifold for a smooth transition. Good luck with your decision.

 

Thanks for the in depth opinions, guys, I really appreciate it. All I have to do now is think a bit and decide which way I want to go for sure. I'm nervous about the cam swapping for two reasons:
1 - Never done one before and don't want to pull the motor
2 - I don't want to go too far and end up with something not realistic for daily driver duties...

Neither of which means I'm ruling out a cam change....

 

Its not hard at all, just alot of work.

What I've always done with cam selection, whatever I feel will meet my power goals, step down 1 cam. You will get marginally less power, but you will get a cam thats more streetable.

 

Pretty good advice from the sound of it. I'm thinking about the 230/236 which might be marginal street wise for a 350 from the sound of it, but I think would be a little tamer in the 383, or maybe the TPIS ZZ-X (235/235) cam if I go with either the MR or LT1 intakes. Or I may just try the AFRs with the SR to see any difference with the heads first and then change the intake and cam later this winter....

What does everyone think of that set up?

 

Don't you have emissions in the DFW area? I passed smog in TN with the comp 230-236 cam on a 114lsa with the LT1 intake/miniram.

For a street car, I'd stick with the superram if you already have it.

 

Vern - I've had the SuperRam and MiniRam on my 383. In my opinion, the MiniRam was hands down the better of the two. The combo I ran was 383, AFR 190's, Comp 230/236 HR 112 lsa, 3.70 gears. I passed Illinois smog on the rollers and knocked down 11.6 ets with cats on. I'm telling you that you will not be disappointed with the short runner intake. With your gears and the AFR's, the car will be an animal but still have all the driveability you want.

 

MiniRam, all the way man.

 

Thanks HiTech5 and Justin, I appreciate your input as well as all the others. If I can figure out a way to swing it, I just may try the cam swap and MiniRam. I mocked up the AFR 195's on an LT1 block I had sitting in the garage over the weekend, and boy was I disappointed.

The AFR 195's are almost an exact FelPro 1205 match, corner radius is very slightly different, but overall very very close. Unfortunately, the 1205 match-up on the LT1 intake is pretty much non-existent. Not even close. It also doesn't look like there is enough meat in the intake to be able to open the ports up to match the 1205 gasket. And to top it all off, with the intake bolted up to the heads you can see some of the blue port hole seals on the 1205 gasket around the outside edges of the intake. Looks to me like there would be a definite vac leak issue unless material was added to the outside edges of the itake on both sides. I even used the cork china wall gaskets to make sure the intake wasn't settling down too far. So I'm suddenly leery of the LT1 conversion using the AFR 195 heads. Plus the intake looks to be a restriction since the port openings are so much smaller than the head ports, seems like that would have to restrict what the heads are able to do quite a bit. One last thing I'll do before giving up on the LT1 intake is put in the head locator pins on the one side of the block that doesn't have them. I've got four head bolts lightly snugged up but I suppose there is still a slight possibility the head is dropped down a little and is causing the apparent fitting problems.

Just for grins, I pulled out the MiniRam intake I have and compared it to the 1205 gasket. Almost a perfect match with the 1205. Unfortunately the MR I have is for an LT1, which means it does not have a thermostat hole plus the distributor hole has a freeze plug looking kind of plug. And the center bolt holes don't line up. So the only way I could probably use this intake on my current 383 with the AFR 195s would be to have it converted just like is done with the LT1 intakes. Or trade this MR for a non-LT1 version. So at the moment I'm kind of in limbo trying to decide which way to go. I also may call TPIS and see what they would charge to convert this intake. I've got a message into Z69 (Scott@LT1intake.com) to see what he thinks of the possibility of doing a conversion on my MR but haven't heard back from him yet.

Anyone have any other suggestions, or see something wrong in the mock up I did? I plan to use a .029 head gasket thickness to get my quench down to .039, so maybe my current uncompressed FelPro head gasket is holding the heads too far up and allowing the intake to settle down too far?

 

I really doubt the gasket is adding any significant height to where the intake doesnt line up properly. They dont compress very much.

 

Thanks, Max. Not exactly what I was hoping to hear, but good info regardless....

 

Yea, I know. Generally if the intake doesnt line up in a mock up, its not going to line up when its assembled. Usually when assembling the intake drops down farther than a mock up after those gaskets are compressed.

I'm sort of in the same dilemma. I have the rest of the engine where I think I want it but the intake on there is an Edelbrock I picked up that I had to use because my siamese base didnt even come close to covering up a set of AFR 190's opened up to a 1206. 1206? Stock base? Puh-lease. I'd like to get that on there just for comparison though, and I am still thinking about the Accel or Intakeelbows elbow for my Accel Pro-ram. Problem is I cant weld so... it gets expensive and I dont like expensive. Maybe I need to go ahead and do it, I'm real curious how far I can push a 'stock' TPI intake. 331rwhp aint bad for 66% stock. And then the Pro-ram will probably make that number look silly by comparison, at least I am hoping it will.

But first, need to make the trans shift realistically. 3-2 Downshift at 80MPH=bad.

 

Well, I'm kinda worried about the mock not working the best as well. doesn't bode well.....